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HCS 2018 Season Settings Update

OP Tashi

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Hey everyone, kicking off a discussion topic for the HCS 2018 Settings Updates.

Read for the first article here: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/hcs-2018-settings-update

What does everyone think?
Very excited to try it out. Great to see you guys utilizing the forge maps.

Thanks for giving some love to H5!
Question @Tashi are the Forge maps limited to the ones present in the article or can players nominate and up-vote other Forge maps for consideration?

Quote:
UPDATE #1 06/05/2018

Tested the Spartan Abilities update, specifically the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound and I have found some problems with the removal of these abilities and possible improvments.

Problem: When removing Spartan Charge, the game looses it's ability to reach Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators) organically, resulting in a "sluggish" feeling to Sprint. This side-effect creates dominoing issues within the map movement skill gap by making button combinations like thrust-bumps and bum-jumps not work as intended. Some work but others that did, do not...

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates sprint with Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators). Otherwise keep Spartan Charge but remove or significantly minimize damage output making it only a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).

Problem: When removing Ground Pound, the player looses the ability to finish Flag captures with the ability or Stall with a Ball to stay alive and earn more points.

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates game settings, allowing objective carrier settings the ability to override any player settings, thus allowing Ground Pound enabled for Flag Carriers and Ball Carriers but disabled for normal players. An additional balance could be that Ground Pound be significantly minimized in-terms of damage output but allow it to remain for a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).
Reserved for my thoughts.
Syxnrgy wrote:
Question @Tashi are the Forge maps limited to the ones present in the article or can players nominate and up-vote other Forge maps for consideration?

Quote:
UPDATE #1 06/05/2018Tested the Spartan Abilities update, specifically the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound and I have found some problems with the removal of these abilities and possible improvments.

Problem: When removing Spartan Charge, the game looses it's ability to reach Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators) organically, resulting in a "sluggish" feeling to Sprint. This side-effect creates dominoing issues within the map movement skill gap by making button combinations like thrust-bumps and bum-jumps not work as intended. Some work but others that did, do not...

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates sprint with Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators). Otherwise keep Spartan Charge but remove or significantly minimize damage output making it only a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).

Problem: When removing Ground Pound, the player looses the ability to finish Flag captures with the ability or Stall with a Ball to stay alive and earn more points.

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates game settings, allowing objective carrier settings the ability to override any player settings, thus allowing Ground Pound enabled for Flag Carriers and Ball Carriers but disabled for normal players. An additional balance could be that Ground Pound be significantly minimized in-terms of damage output but allow it to remain for a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).
Reserved for my thoughts.
Not that I particularly care what forge maps get picked. as I can not longer play FPS games due to motion sickness I've gained with age, I'm curious as to what the process for selecting these maps was. Most of them a fairly older creations from back when I was still active in the community, and honestly, they're pretty far from the pinnacle of what the forge community puts forth. There are great maps out there that I think may have been over looked, such as Full Metal by xDemption (one of my personal favorites). It'd be nice if the community team could explain the rhyme and reason behind their selection process.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
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Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
D M4N8 wrote:
Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
Lol those weapons are the most skill based...
Syxnrgy wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
Lol those weapons are the most skill based...
If you would have said Sniper alone- then I would have definitely agreed with you because the Sniper definitely is- but Railgun isn't. Railgun is pretty much like having a long range shotty. Speaking about ranges- I'm pretty sure it takes skill to penetrate the teams perimeter and get that close to them. If they allow that to happen- then they deserve that kill.

I mean- they already lowered the shotty's ammo once.

The only reason I brought up both weapons is because "Snowballing" was mentioned and both weapons are definitely snowbally or would you disagree that a Sniper can pretty much win you the game by around an 8 point lead while a Scattershot can only up your game by 5 points ...
D M4N8 wrote:
Syxnrgy wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
Lol those weapons are the most skill based...
If you would have said Sniper alone- then I would have definitely agreed with you because the Sniper definitely is- but Railgun isn't. Railgun is pretty much like having a long range shotty. Speaking about ranges- I'm pretty sure it takes skill to penetrate the teams perimeter and get that close to them. If they allow that to happen- then they deserve that kill.

I mean- they already lowered the shotty's ammo once.

The only reason I brought up both weapons is because "Snowballing" was mentioned and both weapons are definitely snowbally or would you disagree that a Sniper can pretty much win you the game by around an 8 point lead while a Scattershot can only up your game by 5 points ...
Agreed to most points however, the Railgun's patch makes it difficult to pocket kill a player now, you need to precharge it or have the jump on someone for the kill. In-terms of the Shotgun and Scattershot... these cannot be reduced any more in-terms of ammunition. Personally the weapons have nothing to do with the game, it is clearly the maps have become repetitive and the META is stagnant.
Syxnrgy wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Syxnrgy wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
Lol those weapons are the most skill based...
If you would have said Sniper alone- then I would have definitely agreed with you because the Sniper definitely is- but Railgun isn't. Railgun is pretty much like having a long range shotty. Speaking about ranges- I'm pretty sure it takes skill to penetrate the teams perimeter and get that close to them. If they allow that to happen- then they deserve that kill.

I mean- they already lowered the shotty's ammo once.

The only reason I brought up both weapons is because "Snowballing" was mentioned and both weapons are definitely snowbally or would you disagree that a Sniper can pretty much win you the game by around an 8 point lead while a Scattershot can only up your game by 5 points ...
Agreed to most points however, the Railgun's patch makes it difficult to pocket kill a player now, you need to precharge it or have the jump on someone for the kill. In-terms of the Shotgun and Scattershot... these cannot be reduced any more in-terms of ammunition. Personally the weapons have nothing to do with the game, it is clearly the maps have become repetitive and the META is stagnant.
Idk
I personally find this Railgun easier to use.
While it is a bit slower (.25 seconds)- it's still faster than the TTK on all the other Tier 1 weapons. What I like about it is that you're able to hold the charge by up to 1 full second- which makes it user friendly. I guess it's just depends on the person's playstyle.
Syxnrgy wrote:
Question @Tashi are the Forge maps limited to the ones present in the article or can players nominate and up-vote other Forge maps for consideration?

Quote:
UPDATE #1 06/05/2018Tested the Spartan Abilities update, specifically the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound and I have found some problems with the removal of these abilities and possible improvments.

Problem: When removing Spartan Charge, the game looses it's ability to reach Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators) organically, resulting in a "sluggish" feeling to Sprint. This side-effect creates dominoing issues within the map movement skill gap by making button combinations like thrust-bumps and bum-jumps not work as intended. Some work but others that did, do not...

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates sprint with Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators). Otherwise keep Spartan Charge but remove or significantly minimize damage output making it only a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).

Problem: When removing Ground Pound, the player looses the ability to finish Flag captures with the ability or Stall with a Ball to stay alive and earn more points.

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates game settings, allowing objective carrier settings the ability to override any player settings, thus allowing Ground Pound enabled for Flag Carriers and Ball Carriers but disabled for normal players. An additional balance could be that Ground Pound be significantly minimized in-terms of damage output but allow it to remain for a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).
Reserved for my thoughts.
Not that I particularly care what forge maps get picked. as I can not longer play FPS games due to motion sickness I've gained with age, I'm curious as to what the process for selecting these maps was. Most of them a fairly older creations from back when I was still active in the community, and honestly, they're pretty far from the pinnacle of what the forge community puts forth. There are great maps out there that I think may have been over looked, such as Full Metal by xDemption (one of my personal favorites). It'd be nice if the community team could explain the rhyme and reason behind their selection process.
I too was wondering what lead to these particular options.

I was a bit perplexed by Furnace. It just does not seem like a map that should be getting consideration for the HCS -- Heck, I'd much rather see White Cell (already in Team Slayer MMing) over it.

However, some custom maps that I've had the pleasure of playing on that I thought would have been better potential options over Furnace and others would be FullMetal (as you've also mentioned), Twice Forsaken, Aquarium, Analogue, Outcast (HCS), Conflux, Loading Zone, Nyxium, Colonial, High Guard, Onyx, Outcast, Seclusion, High Roller, Port 66, Temple [by TickleMeBuddha], and Excalibur. These are just a few that I recall finding quite pleasing to the eye and that played fairly well too though I'm no pro and I've not played them under HCS settings. I just don't know if these maps are in ideal condition for HCS game-play though; meaning, I don't know if they've been tested thoroughly for frame-rate, spawn, map escaping, and core game-type issues.
Removing Spartan charge and ground pound would be wonderful!
Syxnrgy wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Shotguns to be removed- but not Snipers or Railguns?

Might as well not have any other weapon at all!
Lol those weapons are the most skill based...
So true lol.
I honestly don't think Spartan charge and ground pound are really an issue. Plus they add to the movement skill gap and its fun to see top players use them to navigate the maps and make awesome plays. I have looked around on the maps that are being considered for HCS and some of them seem pretty awesome. I hope oddball gets added in a proper way and not forced in. From the article it seemed as if they are saying that oddball is guaranteed to be added. Some issues can arise from forcing change simply for the sake of change. Change should happen because its needed and only if they know what to change and how.
Here’s my feedback for this year’s HWC season:

Spartan abilities:
Although I agree with the following settings the pros have been testing before the recent HCS Setting blog:
110% movement speed
90% thruster speed
80% (90%) clamber speed
no sprint
no spartan charge
no ground pound
no radar.

I do like the idea of consideration of just removing Spartan charge and Ground pound of HCS.

However, i do not think Shotguns, Scattershots, etc. Basically every single Tier 2 weapon should not be in weapon pad. Instead, it’s respawn time should be increased. For example:
Despawn time: 30 seconds
Respawn time: 60 seconds (or more)

In other things, I have noticed since the latest sandbox tuning patch. There’s little to no grab of BRs on HWC. I understand it is because of the recoil and lower range in comparison with the magnum. In addition, there will be no more sandbox tuning updates anymore and will be used tools in game to change settings in HCS. So, I came up with a little band-aid (solution).
  • Replace every BR with a LONG BARREL BR variant.
Basically the long barrel variant makes he BR have its old default (pre patch) range back. This will encourage players to grab it more as it will be more viable against the magnum but not be overpowered. (Because it still has recoil).
The other rifles are fine the way they are, so no changes needed there.

Thanks for reading this, hope it helps.
Here’s my feedback for this year’s HWC season:

Spartan abilities:
Although I agree with the following settings the pros have been testing before the recent HCS Setting blog:
110% movement speed
90% thruster speed
80% (90%) clamber speed
no sprint
no spartan charge
no ground pound
no radar.

I do like the idea of consideration of just removing Spartan charge and Ground pound of HCS.

However, i do not think Shotguns, Scattershots, etc. Basically every single Tier 2 weapon should not be in weapon pad. Instead, it’s respawn time should be increased. For example:
Despawn time: 30 seconds
Respawn time: 60 seconds (or more)

In other things, I have noticed since the latest sandbox tuning patch. There’s little to no grab of BRs on HWC. I understand it is because of the recoil and lower range in comparison with the magnum. In addition, there will be no more sandbox tuning updates anymore and will be used tools in game to change settings in HCS. So, I came up with a little band-aid (solution).
  • Replace every BR with a LONG BARREL BR variant.
Basically the long barrel variant makes he BR have its old default (pre patch) range back. This will encourage players to grab it more as it will be more viable against the magnum but not be overpowered. (Because it still has recoil).
The other rifles are fine the way they are, so no changes needed there.

Thanks for reading this, hope it helps.
I don't mind the alterations to movement speed, thruster speed, and clamber speed for HCS.

I disagree with the abilities removal. I feel the game plays best with all the abilities enabled and it's the most entertaining method to watch pros play competitively.

I love the Abilities Tracker. It was a fantastic change for the HCS and I wish it had been incorporated into the Doubles & regular FFA playlist too.

I'm fully on-board with Shotguns and Scattershots (1-shot kill weapons) being put onto Weapon Pads.

I am a huge advocate of replacing the default BR (Recon) with the Long Barrel Recon variant throughout all Arena matches, not just in the HCS playlist, because I believe it desperately requires a hip-fire Red-Reticle-Range (RRR) increase. It should not feature less range in relation to the standard Magnum and since it doesn't look like 343i will be putting any resources into another re-tune any time soon this is the next best solution. This would also cause the "former" default BR variant (Recon) to be accessible only in Warzone modes and Custom matches.
New maps are crucial!!
Not to be a naysayer or anything like that but I find this comes up all too often...

Opinions coming from players who either dont participate in the HCS playlist on the regular or are strictly very low on the ELO system (ie Unranked, Bronze, Silver Gold) dont have enough experience at how higher competition to understand how these will take at the highest echelon...

Your opinion is welcomed but the simplest thing is to play at higher levels (Diamond, Onyx, Champion) to really understand what would be best.
eLantern wrote:
Syxnrgy wrote:
Question @Tashi are the Forge maps limited to the ones present in the article or can players nominate and up-vote other Forge maps for consideration?

Quote:
UPDATE #1 06/05/2018Tested the Spartan Abilities update, specifically the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound and I have found some problems with the removal of these abilities and possible improvments.

Problem: When removing Spartan Charge, the game looses it's ability to reach Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators) organically, resulting in a "sluggish" feeling to Sprint. This side-effect creates dominoing issues within the map movement skill gap by making button combinations like thrust-bumps and bum-jumps not work as intended. Some work but others that did, do not...

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates sprint with Terminal Velocity (ie lateral indicators). Otherwise keep Spartan Charge but remove or significantly minimize damage output making it only a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).

Problem: When removing Ground Pound, the player looses the ability to finish Flag captures with the ability or Stall with a Ball to stay alive and earn more points.

Suggestion: Create a patch that updates game settings, allowing objective carrier settings the ability to override any player settings, thus allowing Ground Pound enabled for Flag Carriers and Ball Carriers but disabled for normal players. An additional balance could be that Ground Pound be significantly minimized in-terms of damage output but allow it to remain for a movement and utility option (eg. 50% Damage, 150% Knockback).
Reserved for my thoughts.
Not that I particularly care what forge maps get picked. as I can not longer play FPS games due to motion sickness I've gained with age, I'm curious as to what the process for selecting these maps was. Most of them a fairly older creations from back when I was still active in the community, and honestly, they're pretty far from the pinnacle of what the forge community puts forth. There are great maps out there that I think may have been over looked, such as Full Metal by xDemption (one of my personal favorites). It'd be nice if the community team could explain the rhyme and reason behind their selection process.
I too was wondering what lead to these particular options.

I was a bit perplexed by Furnace. It just does not seem like a map that should be getting consideration for the HCS -- Heck, I'd much rather see White Cell (already in Team Slayer MMing) over it.

However, some custom maps that I've had the pleasure of playing on that I thought would have been better potential options over Furnace and others would be FullMetal (as you've also mentioned), Twice Forsaken, Aquarium, Analogue, Outcast (HCS), Conflux, Loading Zone, Nyxium, Colonial, High Guard, Onyx, Outcast, Seclusion, High Roller, Port 66, Temple [by TickleMeBuddha], and Excalibur. These are just a few that I recall finding quite pleasing to the eye and that played fairly well too though I'm no pro and I've not played them under HCS settings. I just don't know if these maps are in ideal condition for HCS game-play though; meaning, I don't know if they've been tested thoroughly for frame-rate, spawn, map escaping, and core game-type issues.
Most likely the maps were selected from the stupid Tweet asking for maps some while back, where the usual crew of self promoting forgers and their sycophants plugged their own maps (like they always do). If 343 would actually make a concerted effort to interact with the forge community, we wouldn't have situations like this crop up where mediocre maps are picked. Sometimes I wonder if they do this intentionally to set the forge community up for failure, as the competitive scene will more than likely make a fuss over how bad the maps are, and the HCS managers will say "see, this is why we don't do forge maps".

Oh well. Nice list by the way. Port 66 is another one of my favorites.
Syxnrgy wrote:
Not to be a naysayer or anything like that but I find this comes up all too often...

Opinions coming from players who either dont participate in the HCS playlist on the regular or are strictly very low on the ELO system (ie Unranked, Bronze, Silver Gold) dont have enough experience at how higher competition to understand how these will take at the highest echelon...

Your opinion is welcomed but the simplest thing is to play at higher levels (Diamond, Onyx, Champion) to really understand what would be best.
I agree with this and I am one of the lower end players. I know playing at high Gold low Plat in HCS doesn't really give me a good idea of how maps and strategies play at high level. I rarely weigh in on things, but I do play that playlist almost exclusively. I like the gameplay things like Pistol starts, no autos, Ability Tacker, and whatnot.

Even though I may not have a sense of what it's like at the higher levels I do have the sense that at my level the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound will be a welcome addition. I have experienced countless players that when I am playing well, i.e. getting the most kills and staying alive the longest, players will revert to the SP to take me down. I prefer strategy over the run and gun, and this is what that promotes. I look forward to these changes and playing on some new maps.
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