Forums / Community / Halo Championship Series

HCS Settings Feedback Update -- December 12

OP ZaedynFel

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We just have a quick playlist update for now but are creating this new thread to continue the discussion.

Oddball testing went well, and we are on track to add it to the HaloWC Preview playlist later this week.

In addition, based on feedback we’ve gotten, we are making the following adjustments to the existing maps and modes:

  • Removing Eden Slayer for now due to map imbalances with spawning, power weapons, and power-ups for Slayer and excessively slow gameplay. Some of the changes below do improve this, but we felt the combination of issues merited giving Eden Slayer a break until we are confident we can address them adequately.
  • Dropping Sniper Rifle ammo from 12 to 8 bullets on Coliseum, Plaza, and The Rig to reduce how often we see multiple Sniper Rifles out.
  • Reducing Rocket Ammo from 4 to 2 bullets on Coliseum and Eden to increase opportunities to break map control.

In the “Official HCS” fileshare we’ll also be posting versions of The Rig, Eden, and Plaza with updated initial spawns. We’ve had feedback that Red has an advantage off spawn that we are trying to reduce. So keep an eye on the fireshare, and we’ll also add a future post to this thread with the names of those maps once they are uploaded.
I was never a fan of Eden Slayer. Personally think that slayer should only be on Truth and Rig.

Also reducing the rocket ammo to 1 clip may result in less players going for it. Sorta how everyone stopped going for plasma caster on regret after the nerf.
Only 8 shots in the sniper :( but i like the rocket luncher decrease
Now THESE seem like changes that are definitely worth trying. Took long enough but still much appreciated.
I'm not sure if you can answer this, but have you guys considered testing forge maps for the HCS now that you have identified a fix for poor framerate? If that's out in a timely manner it'd be great to see some get tested for HWC.
Glad to see these changes, never liked Eden for Slayer
Thanks. How about add slienced pistol in tunnel of Regret.
This is completely my own opinion and personal preference, but I'd like to see all weapons with tracking bullets get ripped out of competitive playlists. Maybe not in Slayer and Arena, but HCS and Doubles for sure. Remove Plasma Pistol, Suppressor, Bolt Shot, and Needler. Maybe the Hydra could stay since it's tracking ability is only really affective at long distances. Hydra's ammo could be reduced from 12 to 6 though. The assists on these weapons are too great to be considered competitive. They really need to go. You could keep the Brute Plasma Rifle and the Storm Rifle to offset maps with Overshield.

My opinions are mainly from experience in Doubles. I know HCS is obviously being focused on for the upcoming HWC, but at some point it would be nice to have some of the HCS competitive updates filter down the pipeline into Doubles and maybe other appropriate playlists as well.

EDIT: To stay on topic though, I'm pretty happy about the HCS settings update this week. Really good decisions made. Can't wait to see this next iteration of competitive Oddball.
Jack 0O1 wrote:
This is completely my own opinion and personal preference, but I'd like to see all weapons with tracking bullets get ripped out of competitive playlists. Maybe not in Slayer and Arena, but HCS and Doubles for sure. Remove Plasma Pistol, Suppressor, Bolt Shot, and Needler. Maybe the Hydra could stay since it's tracking ability is only really affective at long distances. Hydra's ammo could be reduced from 12 to 6 though. The assists on these weapons are too great to be considered competitive. They really need to go. You could keep the Brute Plasma Rifle and the Storm Rifle to offset maps with Overshield.

My opinions are mainly from experience in Doubles. I know HCS is obviously being focused on for the upcoming HWC, but at some point it would be nice to have some of the HCS competitive updates filter down the pipeline into Doubles and maybe other appropriate playlists as well.

EDIT: To stay on topic though, I'm pretty happy about the HCS settings update this week. Really good decisions made. Can't wait to see this next iteration of competitive Oddball.
An issue I've seen from the community at large is that most people don't like having changes made to HCS filter out to the other playlists. I can largely agree with that, having Halo's 1 "dedicated" pro playlist be the ultimate grouping of competitive settings and having the other playlists largely reflect other sets of competitive play in Halo. Having HCS and Team Arena be largely the same creates a lot of redundancy between both lists (it's already redundant as is which is why they're being merged afaik). OTOH, players of the HCS playlist feel that the opposite is a current problem where issues/settings from other Arena playlists are filtering into HCS: for example a lot of the weapon tuning (and the BR/magnum starts) are something that didn't belong in HCS. There's a lot of arguments to be had on both sides of this fence but for now I have to largely disagree with removing those weapons you've listed from HCS since they're currently not getting much (if any use). Also, brute plasma & storm rifle are CRAZY strong to the point it's amazing they didn't get nerfed with the weapon tuning updates -- they're the strongest close & medium range weapons.

Lastly, I agree with you about the most recent HCS changes - now I'm hoping that the HWC tournament events can be finalized and announced since 343's already a month late on announcing what's happening with World's. :/
I agree Eden Slayer should be out . There should be only two Slayer maps in HCS, truth and rig. Eden is a great strongholds map IMO.
DoNu7 wrote:
Jack 0O1 wrote:
An issue I've seen from the community at large is that most people don't like having changes made to HCS filter out to the other playlists. OTOH, players of the HCS playlist feel that the opposite is a current problem where issues/settings from other Arena playlists are filtering into HCS. I have to largely disagree with removing those weapons you've listed from HCS since they're currently not getting much (if any use). Also, brute plasma & storm rifle are CRAZY strong to the point it's amazing they didn't get nerfed with the weapon tuning updates -- they're the strongest close & medium range weapons.
I agree with a lot of what you stated. HCS should always be separated from Slayer and Arena. I wouldn’t merge anything from those, except maybe turn Slayer and Arena into one playlist, but HCS should be kept separate like the MLG playlist from Halo 3. And you’re right, in HCS the players are so spot-on that the weapons I mentioned don’t make too much of a difference, so it doesn’t really matter that they exist there.

My opinion comes mainly from Doubles where there are a few maps that have multiple enemy-tracking weapons. If one team monopolizes them and runs a game with noob-shots and needler or suppressor, there isn’t too much the other team of two can do. Now if it’s 4v4 then it’s quite easy to clean up those players from multiple angles and team-shot because they’re going to have to reload. But when one clip of needles can supercombine two players, or the green-gun’s EMP is assisting in noob-shots, it’s just too easy for a 2v2 to constantly get cleaned up. Maybe this only becomes a problem when it’s 2v2 since the 4v4 games don’t seem affected.

Dropping Hydra ammo from 12 to 6 would be enough to force players to use it smartly and not just unleash 6 tracking missiles at once. And I know the Plasma Rifle and Storm Rifle are strong, but if the enemy-tracking weapons go away you still need something to offset for the maps that have Overshield. It’s not like they’d be abused anymore then they already are or more then the weapons I’m talking about removing.

Regardless, if my opinions are only valid in Doubles then I still plead my case because it is a very real problem against players who abuse those weapons. My partner and I enjoy the UNSC weapons so much in gunfights, we will grab the enemy-tracking weapons on problem maps just to holster them and force the opposing team to use the other UNSC weapons available to them.

Honestly, Doubles hasn’t been touched since their Valentines update I believe. I would thouroughly enjoy a late refresh that applied the changes I mentioned here. Maybe other players would as well, or maybe not.
The HaloWC Preview playlist updates are now live.
excellent improved the game and has a better record feels more fluid
thanks to improve the game
Jack 0O1 wrote:
DoNu7 wrote:
Jack 0O1 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that doubles has had an update since valentine's day to refresh weapons. AFAIK the biggest changes were the removal of most power weapons & power ups. Personally, I feel that the plasma weapons (plasma pistol especially) needs to have a longer respawn period and/or lower ammo capacity so I partially agree with you but overall I feel the balance is fine. It can be frustrating to have a team hog these weapons but it is a part of the overall map and game balance in doubles. All weapons in doubles that have tracking lose their tracking when the target uses their thrust so it becomes a very complex mechanic of using your thrust at the right times, to the right places to ensure you have maximum cover and being able to either fight back, or escape the given situation. This applies to both the plasma pistol and the hydra; however, the hydra has the edge since the shooter can keep shooting to hopefully have some shots that are still able to track the opponent post-thrust. OTOH the hydra is best used by "curving" the shots around terrain while still maintaining their homing (you can see this often when HCS players use the hydra). Overall this creates a balance where the players with superior positioning and movement can level out and overcome the disadvantage of fighting those "tracking" weapons. I understand that it is very punishing to be caught out by a plasma pistol or hydra since that means you're likely going to die in 1 hit but, IMO, that's the nature of the game: especially in doubles where every bit of damage is critical.

On a different note, I don't know if talking about team doubles is necessarily on-topic for this thread. I've hit a limit on how this doubles talk applies to the HCS settings so I'm hoping there's a more appropriate place to continue this doubles feedback as I assume there's still a thread for it somewhere.
Dear ZaedynFel:
Thank you so much for this new update and for help us to enjoy our game.
Agree with Eden slayer removal. Will have to test the sniper ammo change, but I will miss the extra ammo.
A little off topic, but wanted to say that I’m really enjoying the changes made to the BR. It feels much more consistent, and with the recoil it makes it feel skillful enough to use that the increased damage and other changes don’t make it feel too OP in my opinion.

As for Oddball,, it’s starting to grow on me. However, like I said in the previous Oddball feedback thread, in my opinion the “Carrier Navpoint Behavior” should be set to “when spotted” rather than “always on” like it is now. In my experience, always knowing where the carrier is due to the navpoint never disappearing, almost completely does away with the need for communication. You always know where the carrier is and can assume that most, if not all of their team, is camping around them to protect the carrier. I’m sure it probably plays differently in a competitive environment, but that’s how it feels online, for me anyway. I would prefer to have the navpoint work similar to how it does in CTF, appears when spotted, but goes away after a few seconds. Obviously if competitive players don’t have a problem with this, it should be left alone, this is just my opinion.
DoNu7 wrote:
Jack 0O1 wrote:
DoNu7 wrote:
Jack 0O1 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that doubles has had an update since valentine's day to refresh weapons. I feel that the plasma weapons (plasma pistol especially) needs to have a longer respawn period and/or lower ammo capacity so I partially agree with you but overall I feel the balance is fine. All weapons lose their tracking when the target uses their thrust so it becomes a very complex mechanic of using your thrust at the right times. I understand that it is very punishing to be caught out by a plasma pistol or hydra since that means you're likely going to die in 1 hit but, IMO, that's the nature of the game: especially in doubles where every bit of damage is critical.

On a different note, I don't know if talking about team doubles is necessarily on-topic for this thread. I've hit a limit on how this doubles talk applies to the HCS settings so I'm hoping there's a more appropriate place to continue this doubles feedback as I assume there's still a thread for it somewhere.
You're probably right. I thought it was the Valentines Day update that made the changes to power-ups and power-weapons, but I could be wrong. And I obviously know the roles and uses of those weapons, I just don't think they are appropriate in 2v2 gameplay. Thrust isn't going to offset much of anything when your team of 2 is pinched from the front with green-gun and Needler from the back. I would be happiest if they were removed from the playlist, but even your compromise of longer respawns and/or lower ammo capacity might be an acceptable solution. However, that isn't going to do too much when Empire has two Bolt Shots, one on each turbine platform, for example.

I know this isn't the most appropriate thread to digress into a Doubles conversation, but I wanted this topic to be seen by Josh and others to gauge interest. I believe it needs to be addressed in some way, but to respect the thread I will end the Doubles talk.

Thanks for contributing in the conversation, DoNu7.
A little off topic, but wanted to say that I’m really enjoying the changes made to the BR. It feels much more consistent, and with the recoil it makes it feel skillful enough to use that the increased damage and other changes don’t make it feel too OP in my opinion.

As for Oddball,, it’s starting to grow on me. However, like I said in the previous Oddball feedback thread, in my opinion the “Carrier Navpoint Behavior” should be set to “when spotted” rather than “always on” like it is now. In my experience, always knowing where the carrier is due to the navpoint never disappearing, almost completely does away with the need for communication. You always know where the carrier is and can assume that most, if not all of their team, is camping around them to protect the carrier. I’m sure it probably plays differently in a competitive environment, but that’s how it feels online, for me anyway. I would prefer to have the navpoint work similar to how it does in CTF, appears when spotted, but goes away after a few seconds. Obviously if competitive players don’t have a problem with this, it should be left alone, this is just my opinion.
There would be too many spots for them to hunker down and have their teammates (if they're a good shot) set up on the best angles and just be EXTREMELY difficult to break set up. It can already be hard enough to break a good set up with the Nav point on at all times.

But nevertheless, I LOVE the magnum starts for oddball.
A little off topic, but wanted to say that I’m really enjoying the changes made to the BR. It feels much more consistent, and with the recoil it makes it feel skillful enough to use that the increased damage and other changes don’t make it feel too OP in my opinion.

As for Oddball,, it’s starting to grow on me. However, like I said in the previous Oddball feedback thread, in my opinion the “Carrier Navpoint Behavior” should be set to “when spotted” rather than “always on” like it is now. In my experience, always knowing where the carrier is due to the navpoint never disappearing, almost completely does away with the need for communication. You always know where the carrier is and can assume that most, if not all of their team, is camping around them to protect the carrier. I’m sure it probably plays differently in a competitive environment, but that’s how it feels online, for me anyway. I would prefer to have the navpoint work similar to how it does in CTF, appears when spotted, but goes away after a few seconds. Obviously if competitive players don’t have a problem with this, it should be left alone, this is just my opinion.
There would be too many spots for them to hunker down and have their teammates (if they're a good shot) set up on the best angles and just be EXTREMELY difficult to break set up. It can already be hard enough to break a good set up with the Nav point on at all times.

But nevertheless, I LOVE the magnum starts for oddball.
Magnum only starts are awsome.
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