Forums / Community / Halo Championship Series

[Locked] HCS Settings Feedback Update -- November 27

OP ZaedynFel

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Slayer, Team arena, and the HCS arena need to stay rank. everything else should be social.
For Halo 5:
Team Arena and HCS merge. Playlist is called Team Arena and is at the top of the list.
2v2, FFA and Slayer are ranked
Everything else is social.

Halo 6 talk here, I would rather see a single, premier ranked playlist, "Core" playlists, and "Social" playlists.

All lists have a progression system tied to win/loss similar to Halo 3
The single ranked playlist is 4v4 Team Arena, same settings that pro's play. This is the only list that can get Champion.
Core playlists of 2v2, FFA and Slayer can have ranks, but MM is looser and it tops out at generic "onyx".
Everything else is social. I'm sorry but SWAT, Snipers, etc don't need to be ranked... Social playlists have no ranks, mm is looser still.
Apoll0 wrote:
Slayer, Team arena, and the HCS arena need to stay rank. everything else should be social.
For Halo 5:
Team Arena and HCS merge. Playlist is called Team Arena and is at the top of the list.
2v2, FFA and Slayer are ranked
Everything else is social.

Halo 6 talk here, I would rather see a single, premier ranked playlist, "Core" playlists, and "Social" playlists.

All lists have a progression system tied to win/loss similar to Halo 3
The single ranked playlist is 4v4 Team Arena, same settings that pro's play. This is the only list that can get Champion.
Core playlists of 2v2, FFA and Slayer can have ranks, but MM is looser and it tops out at generic "onyx".
Everything else is social. I'm sorry but SWAT, Snipers, etc don't need to be ranked... Social playlists have no ranks, mm is looser still.
I love these ideas. Having a "core" or main ranked list that uses the tournament settings would work great if it didn't have a competing list. Like what's happening with HCS-TA.
Although I think other playlists like Swat and Breakout had a really healthy following for ranked when the game launched. As time goes on they should probably be moved to Social.
Right now in H5 all I read on forums when it comes to snipers, swat or breakout is that it's hard or almost impossible to find games.

Adding a progression of 1-50 based on win/loss would keep the social playlists still relevant for those who want to progress or have a rank.
That's one of the main things I miss from old Halos. Just having a rank per playlist that doesn't reset every season, instead of the new Spartan Rank (1-152) which I find irrelevant.

However, I think the ranked playlist should be:

Team Aream
Doubles
FFA - these 3 should have the most competitive settings.

Slayer
OBJ - these being a little more 'loose' like the current TA
While Swat, Snipers are the rest ranked playlist can be ranked at launch and as they decline in popularity they are moved to social.
RyInfinity wrote:
RyInfinity wrote:
RyInfinity wrote:
Hey Josh, solid post. Happy to see people got what they wanted for HWC 18.

My advice is to simply abandon the hunt for BR/GF starts and to simply reformat Ranked Arena play, focusing around Magnum-only/Ability Tracker load outs.People want consistency and direction. There is a lack of consistency between Ranked Arena playlists, there is a lack of consistency in matchmaking search times and quality of matches, and there is a lack of consistency in 343's cadence of updates and what they intend to do with each one. There is no direction to be seen regarding where sandbox and map design are going.

ZaedynFel wrote:
1. To achieve this, we asked the designers who designed our most successful playlists to help us design a playlist that was competitive but also as successful as our other playlists, while keeping the recent emphasis on precision vs. automatic-driven gameplay.

2. The BR/Gunfighter combo strikes a balance between being powerful enough to answer most threats, but not being so powerful that there’s no reason to pick up anything on the map.
1. Since when are there different designers working on different Arena playlists? Before the Summer/Fall HCS settings split, Team Arena/HCS were one in the same. Did these people forget how to develop competitive settings? Why are they trying to craft an entirely different/new/abstract experience, rather than tuning Team Arena to optimize for fun, balanced, and competitive gameplay? If the goal is to unify everything, Team Arena and HCS aren't that different.

Reduce the amount of Ranked playlists, adopt a universal settings set (Magnum-only/Ability Tracker) for Team Arena, Doubles, and FFA, and move things like SWAT, Slayer, and Snipers to Social, where they can preserve their own settings and leaved Ranked play for competitive settings.The Splinter Grenade can work competitively if it's placed delicately and intelligently for its role, the SMG can work on the map as an automatic pickup in Magnum-only play, but not if we're also trying to shoehorn in Storm Rifles and Silenced ARs as pickups. Everything needs to have its purpose and an excess of precision and automatic weapons overcomplicates things. Save the Assault Rifle for Social Arena loadouts and playlists. Get the Storm Rifle out.

2. Once again, I think you (or whoever provided you with that information) are misinterpreting what a healthy Halo sandbox should look like. Weapons should not always be persistent upgrades that must be picked up on the map. The utility weapon, or starting weapon, should be a consistent, mechanical skill-oriented, low perfect TTK, high average TTK precision weapon. Secondary weapons have to be thought of delicately (AR, etc.). When the sandbox includes literally seven precision weapons (+ variants), it somewhat clogs up the sandbox and removes the niche role of the starting weapon, which is designed to empower players—one of the most important pillars of a competitive game..

The Magnum doesn't overpower the Hydra, the Sniper Rifle (which overpowers everything, by the way), the Scattershot, the Plasma Caster, Rockets, etc.
These are all unique weapons that can fit unique roles with the right weapon placements. We don't need to overpopulate maps with duplicate weapons just to increase the amount of times players are picking up weapons. Powerups are also sandbox items that are being colossally underutilized.

Each weapon should have value and suit a unique role. They should change the way players approach the map, their movement, and the way they duel their opponents. When the BR, Carbine, Gunfighter Magnum, Regular Magnum, Light Rifle, behave nearly all the same, you've diluted the value of weapon pickups. Saying 'not being so powerful that there’s no reason to pick up anything on the map' is exemplary of the problem of the oversaturated sandbox.
I agree with most of your thoughts. But are you saying to take Arena Slayer out of ranks? And only make it a social playlist? You do realize Arena Slayer is one of if not the most popular playlist H5 has when it comes to ranks don't you? Slayer has to stay a ranked playlist. Slayer has to stay in a ranked format. Its way to scary to even think of taking that out.
That's the thing though. That's why players play it. One because its just slayer and two because it is ranked. The players I play with in slayer like it because its ranked and there is nothing but slayer. We, the friends I play with, like it because of just that. We don't want to play capture the flag and all the other objective type games. Slayer is such a major part in ranked I just cant see it being moved. I'm almost sure Josh had told me in the matchmaking thread that slayer is the most popular.. But even being popular we are not talking the numbers that Halo was once known for. I just think at this stage one has to be very careful at anything major like this. The weapon tune has really hurt this game. And we can already see that 343 is reeling from it and not totally sure what to do next. I personally think moving that out of ranks would be heart wrenching..
People will always have there preference for playlist format, but the formula for a successful ranking system and competitive matchmaking environment has been established by other, more successful, AAA games.

Duplicate ranked environments are bad for the weight/value of the ranking system.
I agree with ZippySkippy here. Removing Team Slayer from ranked would be a HUGE mistake. I easily have 30 friends JUST on my friends list who ONLY want to play RANKED Team Slayer. They don't like playing any kind if objective game type. The core people I play with only want to play ranked Team Slayer. They have ZERO interest in HCS or Team Arena because there are objective game types in them. I'm telling you right now, if ranked Team Slayer goes away, Halo 5 will all but be dead. All one has to do is talk to people after matches and ask them why they play ranked Team Slayer. 95% of the time the responds will be something like "because I want to just kill people in ranked" or "because I don't like playing objective game types but I want to play ranked" I hear this all the time as I use a mic and talk to people.

I also think forcing the ability tracker radar on people isn't a smart move and will only cause more people to stop playing. I think the majority of people are fine with and want there to be some sort of MLG/HCS "pro" setting playlist and if settings are different there, that's fine....but, If you start changing settings in say something like Team Slayer aka putting in the ability tracker radar, people are going to see that as your trying to force "pro" settings everywhere. Halo 5 already gets enough heat for being too competitive. Why try and push that more?? Just because someone likes to play ranked, doesn't mean they want to play the pro settings, far from it I'd say. If they wanted to play with the pro settings, they'd play the pro playlist lol ;)

As far as I'm concerned, in Halo 5 current state, ranked should have FFA, Team Slayer, Doubles and a HCS playlist. They could toy with a ranked team objective playlist too see how it would do if they want as well, otherwise try it in soical. Everything else should be in soical I think.
The watered down H3 BR is honestly not that bad. My main reason for not liking it is because, with the gunfighter pistol, it's stronger. But the BR against the standard H5 pistol, the pistol wins. Seems to have more effect, accuracy and range. That's something that really needs to be looked into since the other playlist have standard pistols and puts the BR at a disadvantage. Makes me not want to pick it up or even use it.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
No autos/auto starts. (Done)
No grenade hit markers.
No Radar.
Remove the BR/Gunfighter Pistol start.
Standard H5 pistol itself is superior to the modified BR. That's why the Gunfighter is paired with it.
Throw in Oddball.
These are the most easy and simplest things to start off with making things change as well as something more competitive. Apply this and test the waters.
One or two new maps will help change things up as well.
My dear friends:
Yesterday, November 28/2017, we were playing oddball HCS V1 Empire map.
My Spartan Company decide to try two differents nodes: normal and the new one.
The first one with the Gunfighter Magnum and the second with the Standard Magnum (new update Unysheks file).
Unyshek: thank you so much for your help!!
The Gunfighter Magnum has the tendency to moving up and up so far you continue shooting.
We didn’t like it too much because it is easy to miss your target.
I may need to practice a lot to control it and has a good results.
The Standard Magnun works excellent.
The spread bullet system is terrific: short or long distance no matter.
It is just good!
Smartlink or not, it is good!
We were playing without pick it up the ball just for fun.
One hour later, we decide to stopped because was late.
It was fun!
We weren’t using the BR because we were focus on the Standard Magnun and Gunfighter Magnum.
I have to continue playing using just the BR and other maps too, so later on I will have some comments about it.
Thanks for your help!!!
P.S.: let us know your experience with the new oddball HCS V1
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post inappropriate content.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
For those who are interested:
Quote:
Download and test out the v1 HCS Oddball settings with Magnum starts under the “Official HCS” bookmarks.Game Mode – “Oddball HCS v1” Maps – “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, “The Rig HCS v1” Let me know what you think! @StrongSide
Quote:
Yes, we'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first, but I'd love to get feedback on Plaza as an Oddball map as well. Plaza looks very promising @StrongSide
Quote:
The remaining maps will follow. We'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first. @StrongSide
I am kind of surprised that no one in this thread is talking about this.

So, is this official HCS settings made by 343? If it is why not change things up in the Oddball playlist itself? Aren't we "testing" things out there? The Oddbal Preview playlist is set to end sometime this week so this testing that is going on with these settings will there be something possibly added to the next years tournament?
DaxSeven09 wrote:
For those who are interested:
Quote:
Download and test out the v1 HCS Oddball settings with Magnum starts under the “Official HCS” bookmarks.Game Mode – “Oddball HCS v1” Maps – “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, “The Rig HCS v1” Let me know what you think! @StrongSide
Quote:
Yes, we'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first, but I'd love to get feedback on Plaza as an Oddball map as well. Plaza looks very promising @StrongSide
Quote:
The remaining maps will follow. We'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first. @StrongSide
I am kind of surprised that no one in this thread is talking about this.

So, is this official HCS settings made by 343? If it is why not change things up in the Oddball playlist itself? Aren't we "testing" things out there? The Oddbal Preview playlist is set to end sometime this week so this testing that is going on with these settings will there be something possibly added to the next years tournament?
Great questions, Dax, but communication isn’t their strong suit.

Quote:
It’s safe to continue practicing on the same settings that were used in the Fall season. We’ve just received results from the latest Oddball pro player survey, and are actively reviewing with design teams to evaluate where we can move forward.
Boilerplate like this makes me think they’re scrambling around not knowing what to do.
The update we promised for the HCS playlist is now live. It currently has the same settings used for the Fall HCS season. We welcome your feedback on how it continues to play here in this thread.

For those curious about Oddball, we’re working closely with HCS teams to test Magnum starts on Oddball maps through custom games. We’ve already received valuable feedback from them. Our goal is to add the best Oddball maps that come out of this process into the HCS playlist and also to feature them as part of the Halo World Championship. We invite you to also participate, so go check out the “Official HCS” bookmarks. Under Game Mode look for “Oddball HCS v1” and for Maps start with “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, and “The Rig HCS v1”. We’ll be adding maps as we go, but we are starting with a smaller set to keep feedback focused and to polish one small set at a time before moving to the next. If you do play on these maps and have feedback, please post it here and we’ll read it and combine it with what we are hearing from the HCS players.

Thanks for your feedback, and enjoy the playlist!
Rig and Empire are the best Oddball maps.

Grenade Launcher must be switched to Tier 3/Weapon Pad (not too competitive of a weapon, honestly)

Plaza/Eden are viable with better Ball Carrier Traits and map layouts (discuss role and danger of Sniper in defensive play)
DaxSeven09 wrote:
For those who are interested:
Quote:
Download and test out the v1 HCS Oddball settings with Magnum starts under the “Official HCS” bookmarks.Game Mode – “Oddball HCS v1” Maps – “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, “The Rig HCS v1” Let me know what you think! @StrongSide
Quote:
Yes, we'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first, but I'd love to get feedback on Plaza as an Oddball map as well. Plaza looks very promising @StrongSide
Quote:
The remaining maps will follow. We'd like to get focused feedback on these three maps first. @StrongSide
I am kind of surprised that no one in this thread is talking about this.

So, is this official HCS settings made by 343? If it is why not change things up in the Oddball playlist itself? Aren't we "testing" things out there? The Oddbal Preview playlist is set to end sometime this week so this testing that is going on with these settings will there be something possibly added to the next years tournament?
Great questions, Dax, but communication isn’t their strong suit.

Quote:
It’s safe to continue practicing on the same settings that were used in the Fall season. We’ve just received results from the latest Oddball pro player survey, and are actively reviewing with design teams to evaluate where we can move forward.
Boilerplate like this makes me think they’re scrambling around not knowing what to do.
It sounds more like they are trying things out, realized maybe some things don't work, and are moving forward with something different. The Custom games testing might be the way to go from now on with the rest of the HCS changes.
ZaedynFel wrote:
The update we promised for the HCS playlist is now live. It currently has the same settings used for the Fall HCS season. We welcome your feedback on how it continues to play here in this thread.
For those curious about Oddball, we’re working closely with HCS teams to test Magnum starts on Oddball maps through custom games. We’ve already received valuable feedback from them. Our goal is to add the best Oddball maps that come out of this process into the HCS playlist and also to feature them as part of the Halo World Championship. We invite you to also participate, so go check out the “Official HCS” bookmarks. Under Game Mode look for “Oddball HCS v1” and for Maps start with “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, and “The Rig HCS v1”. We’ll be adding maps as we go, but we are starting with a smaller set to keep feedback focused and to polish one small set at a time before moving to the next. If you do play on these maps and have feedback, please post it here and we’ll read it and combine it with what we are hearing from the HCS players.
Thanks for your feedback, and enjoy the playlist!
Are you guys going to keep this thread as the single feedback thread? or is there any chance you'll be making individual threads each time the "hcs preview" playlist is updated?
DoNu7 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
The update we promised for the HCS playlist is now live. It currently has the same settings used for the Fall HCS season. We welcome your feedback on how it continues to play here in this thread.
For those curious about Oddball, we’re working closely with HCS teams to test Magnum starts on Oddball maps through custom games. We’ve already received valuable feedback from them. Our goal is to add the best Oddball maps that come out of this process into the HCS playlist and also to feature them as part of the Halo World Championship. We invite you to also participate, so go check out the “Official HCS” bookmarks. Under Game Mode look for “Oddball HCS v1” and for Maps start with “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, and “The Rig HCS v1”. We’ll be adding maps as we go, but we are starting with a smaller set to keep feedback focused and to polish one small set at a time before moving to the next. If you do play on these maps and have feedback, please post it here and we’ll read it and combine it with what we are hearing from the HCS players.
Thanks for your feedback, and enjoy the playlist!
Are you guys going to keep this thread as the single feedback thread? or is there any chance you'll be making individual threads each time the "hcs preview" playlist is updated?
For now it's easier to keep everything focused in a single thread.

Reasons to split would be another major update or change, or we might consider a weekly thread like we do over in the Matchmaking forum. We'll see as need dictates.
ZaedynFel wrote:
DoNu7 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
The update we promised for the HCS playlist is now live. It currently has the same settings used for the Fall HCS season. We welcome your feedback on how it continues to play here in this thread.
For those curious about Oddball, we’re working closely with HCS teams to test Magnum starts on Oddball maps through custom games. We’ve already received valuable feedback from them. Our goal is to add the best Oddball maps that come out of this process into the HCS playlist and also to feature them as part of the Halo World Championship. We invite you to also participate, so go check out the “Official HCS” bookmarks. Under Game Mode look for “Oddball HCS v1” and for Maps start with “Empire HCS v1”, “Eden HCS v1”, and “The Rig HCS v1”. We’ll be adding maps as we go, but we are starting with a smaller set to keep feedback focused and to polish one small set at a time before moving to the next. If you do play on these maps and have feedback, please post it here and we’ll read it and combine it with what we are hearing from the HCS players.
Thanks for your feedback, and enjoy the playlist!
Are you guys going to keep this thread as the single feedback thread? or is there any chance you'll be making individual threads each time the "hcs preview" playlist is updated?
For now it's easier to keep everything focused in a single thread.

Reasons to split would be another major update or change, or we might consider a weekly thread like we do over in the Matchmaking forum. We'll see as need dictates.
I see, thank you for the info! One more question, is a slight buff to the BR (and/or DMR) a possibility? I get the feeling that changes to actual weapon strength is something that is rarely done; however, given the feedback given, are further changes to weapons (individually or as a whole) feasible/possible to discuss and carry out? It feels like the 2 weps mentioned (BR & DMR) have mostly fulfilled the goals regarding weapon power & range the 343 crew has talked about; however, I somewhat agree with most feedback in saying some of the rifles aren't quite there yet.
For example, I feel the BR spread should be slightly more forgiving - either by tightening the spread between inner and outer reticles or increasing the BR's max effective range from the hip and/or from smartlink. The BR feels too short-ranged in arena maps and especially in warzone where the BR's range is much smaller than most engagements.
For the DMR, I don't have any quantified suggestions and all I can say is the weapon feels a little too unforgiving outside of long range where it's expected for most players to miss some of their shots. In close range where every shot counts, the DMR feels more like the gunfighter mag with slower fire rate and even harder accuracy at close range.
ZaedynFel wrote:
The update we promised for the HCS playlist is now live. It currently has the same settings used for the Fall HCS season. We welcome your feedback on how it continues to play here in this thread.
As per my post in the matchmaking thread, have you addressed the skill matching issues in this updated playlist? Have the ranks been reset? Thanks.
I like the return to magnum starts but I still think Mercy Oddball is a competitively viable map with the right weapon settings. Plus it would just be really nice to get at least one new map in the rotation.

Also, no reason the updated grenade launcher and sword can't be added to a few of these maps.
I like the return to magnum starts but I still think Mercy Oddball is a competitively viable map with the right weapon settings. Plus it would just be really nice to get at least one new map in the rotation.

Also, no reason the updated grenade launcher and sword can't be added to a few of these maps.
Keep the grenade launcher out of competitive - that gun is a joke. Far too easy to use.
oddball still needs to get a play ball there should be a 8 second respawn time after a player throws the ball off the map or it despawns.
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