Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

Big Team Battle Refresh Feedback

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 45
UPDATE 5/20/2019

We are putting out a last call for feedback on the refresh in advance of our plan to move BTB from Social to Ranked with the season roll in June.

Design is currently taking feedback on the maps and modes, but is no longer taking feedback on the starting weapons. While we appreciate the discussion there, please move that to a different venue in order to focus on feedback that design is likely to act on.

___

As some of you already know, we have been working on a Big Team Battle Refresh.

We're now at the point where it would be great to hear some feedback!

Please post your feedback, ideas, and wish list items in this thread and we'll read through them and see how they fit into what we're doing right now.

We're especially curious right now about:
  • Starting weapon ideas (though keep in mind we can't change the behavior of specific weapons)
  • Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general?
  • What about mode preferences?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Starting Loadout:
-BR with Stabilizer Jets or Extended Mag Br.
-Either AR, SMG, or Magnum for secondaries.
Maps:
-I feel that maps in rotation are excellent. Take a few older ones out and put some new ones in.
Vehicles:
-Vehicles are fairly good. The less airborne vehicles, like banshees and wasps, the better, in my opinion.
Nit-picks:
-I think much more XP should be rewarded in BTB. The same as Infection or Warzone Assault.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
  • Starting weapons: BR and AR (default versions of both). Note: No change necessary to the starting weapons. The current BR prevents players from "cross-mapping" or "beaming" players from great distances and adds a skill gap to the weapon via the vertical recoil. Players must adapt at different distances to the recoil, but since the bullets in the vertical pattern are 100% accurate and no longer "randomly spread," recoil only adds more of a skill gap to the weapon.

    Vehicles: The warthog's gunner is way too easily shot out of the gunner seat. There are plenty of large maps to enjoy vehicles on and it is a critical part of BTB.

    Game-modes: Big Team Slayer, CTF, Strongholds, and Assault are fine for the current BTB ecosystem. Balancing these out so they appear an equal amount of times between all the maps in BTB will be the challenge.
I would like to see either extended barrel BR or stabilizer BR as primary. Current BR is useless outside of close range.
For a secondary weapon would love to see the magnum added. It's fun, well balanced and extremely competitive weapon.
Please take out Ancestor. That map has more vehicles and power weapons than players in the lobby. Has no flow to it and isnt fun to play at all.
Would like to see a remake of Blood Gulch make it in or at least one new map.
I know Stabilization Jets BR didn’t work but did you guys try Long Barrel BR starts yet? I think Long Barrel BRs work in arena, makes them more viable to pick up. If that doesn’t work then AR/Magnum starts should be the way to go then.
I'll write something more detailed in the future that expands on my general thoughts/ideas on this refresh topic (see HERE), but I wanted to provide my immediate feedback to your curiosities.

Starting Weapon(s):
  • Long-Barrel H5BR (& AR) - It returns the hip-fire Red-Reticle-Range (RRR) of 12 world units to the H5BR. This provides the utility weapon for the Big Team or "Battle" mode with a niche area of strength at mid-range against the more lethal Carbine & Light Rifle precision pick-ups. It also ensures that the utility weapon won't become overly effective outside its RRRs because of the vertical recoil.

    This may also be partially influenced by what type of playlist we end getting. A ranked 6v6 (Squad Battle) playlist could potentially make the Stabilization Jets H5BR an option as the utility precision weapon. Not necessarily advocating for it, but assuming there'd be more smaller maps means it's increased effectiveness beyond RRR should be a bit mitigated and if it helped attract more population to the playlist due to creating more enjoyable gun-play that should be an offsetting good thing for the game-play.
Vehicular Game-play:
  • In my opinion, the Chaingun Warthog is a very solid vehicle. But vehicle choice is also going to be heavily dependent on the design of the map and mode, so it's hard to offhandedly recommend or not recommend the Chaingun Warthog when we're not speaking specifics. There’s also the environmental variants which are a little more resilient and might be a slightly better option for the game-play.

    The question about whether there's enough large maps to really enjoy vehicles (in general) is a bit odd. Yes, there are plenty of Forge maps that make good use of vehicular combat, but potential frame-rate issues on Forged maps can somewhat restrict how big and heavy you can go with traditional vehicular game-play. And the primary reason to really focus on super heavy vehicular combat is if you're trying to create a more social Big Team experience like Big Team Heavies or Big Team Super Fiesta. These are the modes where truly big and open vehicular maps belong. Are there enough of those? Yes and no. By the way, can the Warzone maps be re-purposed without the AI & REQ system? That would go a long way toward providing truly BIG maps without performance issues.
Mode Preference:
  • In my opinion, the current modes (Slayer, Multi-CTF, Neutral Bomb, & Strongholds) are the ideal modes for a competitive environment featuring vehicular combat.

    I think the current BTB playlist has a very solid mix of modes; though, perhaps it could be spread a little bit more even between them depending on the chosen maps. In the future, I'd love to see regular refreshes (perhaps quarterly or bi-annual) that manages to rotate in and out a collection of maps that are maintained and kept ready for inclusion -- including returning past maps. Maybe they return completely overhauled or with minor tweaks or with a different mode or just the same. But, this regular re-shuffling process would help keep the playlist fresh feeling from a long-term sustain perspective.
Can you make BTB ranked? I don't think the matchmaking parameters need to be changed necessarily, but just show your MMR/CSR as a rank in game so we don't have to keep asking you for it. Will give people something to work on and hopefully keep their interest post refresh.

As someone who identifies as a vehicle player I think the current state is good. Current maps are big enough. A couple new maps would be fresh though. For people that don't like aerial vehicles... I personally understand why ;). Toss a few more anti vehicle weapons (lasers/rockets) on the maps as weapon pads spawning at each base and it would be easy to take them down.

Current modes are good, but more would be welcome. Adding some classic modes would be cool. Think king of the hill/territories/1 flag/2 bomb assault/1 bomb assault. Not sure if round based objectives could be easily added?
I agree with Exo Bigg on this one Would be cool if u had BTB ranked and a Social playlist or some of what he just said and as for the BR if ur could be a Jet BR or if any way possible at all have the Old BR from H5 release date THX! 😍
Just like the previous suggestions, I’d be stoked to see ranked BTB become a thing again. The Stabilization Jet BR would be an awesome starting weapon. I also believe that BTB should have a higher XP/RP payout.
1. The current br is to inaccurate compared to the carbine and dmr, even the pistol is better to use. Most of the BTB community has tested the stabilize br on most of the BTB maps and would love to see it implemented. The current br is rarely use when other mid range weapons are available. The long barrel br barely increases the red ridicule range( only about 10 feet, we've tested it in custom games)plus barely effects the way the br functions. Stabilized Br and AR starts would be perfect.

2. Take out some of the maps in BTB,some of the maps are easily made one sided. Dispelled with the spawns and the vechiles can easily be made into a farm fest or just makes it easy to win. Altar's spawns are just to all over the place and with the banshee and all the power weapons make it to easy to become a onesided match. Viking is a good map but I would like to see the gauss hog turn to a regular chain turret hog.

3. The matchmaking peramiters are a little to strict for the remaining player base left for BTB. Myself and my spartan company (Fatal) have a hard time even searching with 4 people and will match full teams of 8, while getting matched with randoms that will maybe get 5-10 kills or even contribute to the objective. If there's a way to make the matchmaking peramiters less strict or make a inside rank placing people in a "below average","average","above average" rank or just let teams match other teams to help find games quicker.

Thank you for reading and I hope you consider some of the things in this message.

Rooster🐔
Starting Weapons
I definitely feel like BTB would be way more fun with either the Magnum or Stabilization Jet BR as the starting weapon. I don't think the new BR is much fun to use and I think a lot of players agree with me.

Vehicles
The Warthog has always been kind of underused in Halo 5 in my opinion. I think this mostly stems from two main issues. The first being that it is way too easy to get killed as the gunner. The turret offers pretty much no protection and the vast majority of the time I just get headshot before the Warthog itself is anywhere near damaged. The second is that there is no real reward for driving. If you are playing a match with randoms you can forget about ever using a Warthog. There needs to be a reason to be a driver. I understand that changing the Warthog itself or the way driving works is unrealistic at this point, but maybe you could add a Oni Hog somewhere and the extra damage would be incentive enough for players to use it.

As far as map size and vehicle dynamics go I think it's been fairly good so far. We've seen a good mix of vehicles and none really seem useless except for the Mongoose. If I were to change anything I would add Gungooses in place of Mongooses and throw a few hog variants in place of the default ones.

Mode Preferences
I think we have a pretty good selection right now and I wouldn't change it much. If anything I'd like to see either a time decrease or exp increase in CTF games. They can take 15+ minutes when played with uncoordinated randoms and the exp given for the amount of time spent seems small compared to Warzone.
Weapon starts: I really like the H2 BR or The Long barrel attachment. Stabilization jets (coupled with the 0 bullet spread the first round of weapons changes gave us) makes it probably the most powerful option. Secondary - either SMG or gunfigher mag.

Vehicles: I love the warthog and most maps I think it works well...others not so much. I can't find the official list, but off the top of my head, here's how I would rate hogging maps:
Viking - 5/5
Boulevard - 5/5
Port authority - 3/5
Dispelled - (5/5, undrivable if tanks are up however)
Guillotine - 3/5
Deadlock - 4/5
Altar - 5/5
Ancestor - 1/5
Eagle Square - 4/5
Echoes - 2/5 (to narrow IMO)
Entombed - 2/5
Fracture - 1/5 (hog is basically a mobile rocket turret
Recurve - 4/5
Risen - 3/5
Scavenger - 5/5 (I might be in the minority on this one, but I love hogging on this map)
Traffic Jam - 2/5

I think some of the problem is alot of the current maps aren't big enough to accommodate hog play. Fracture for example, it's quicker and safer to run the flag back than it is to get in the hog.

I think some maps it might be interesting to try an Oni or needle hog out to counter banshees a little harder. Another idea I'd like to see would be larger square maps (like despelled) that have some room for tank play with a Hog in secondary for when tanks are down.

Game modes: I think all current game modes are great. If possible, adding in 1flag/1bomb or neutral bomb game modes would be the bees knees. I also like the spread of game modes. I think it's a good mix of slayer and objective. I might suggest even lowering the slayer percentage since the community doesn't have a dedicated objective playlist. Also - I might be in the minority here again - but make slayer 75 kills instead of 100 with a shorter match duration. Often times if there are people that quit on the other team and you have that last guy sticking around...it can be a long boring game mode where it's not fun for the winning team and certainly not fun for the guy getting farmed.

Lastly, please make this playlist ranked...atleast for 1 season. I think it would be great to see teams comeback to push champion rank and we can get some friendly rivalries/competitions going again. That said, the lobby freezing glitch needs to be looked at. It's going to be really frustrating keeping a lobby together when we have to worry about ranks being affected. I think you'll end up seeing more and more people dashboarding to avoid the match quitting penalty if someone on their team doesn't load in...which makes streaming this game very difficult as well.
ZaedynFel wrote:
As some of you already know, we have been working on a Big Team Battle Refresh.

We're now at the point where it would be great to hear some feedback!

Please post your feedback, ideas, and wish list items in this thread and we'll read through them and see how they fit into what we're doing right now.

We're especially curious right now about:
  • Starting weapon ideas (though keep in mind we can't change the behavior of specific weapons)
  • Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general?
  • What about mode preferences?
Thanks in advance for your input!
As someone who has played thousands of Big Team Battle games on Halo 5, I would like to give my feedback/ideas.

Starting Weapons:
• I would like the Battle Rifle to be replaced with the Stabilization Jets Battle Rifle, if not the Magnum. The Assualt Rifle can stay. I’ve tested those out as starting weapons in custom games and many people I’ve played with in the custom lobby gave positive feedback overall (most people preferred the Stabilization Jets Battle Rifle).

Vehicle Gameplay:
•For certain maps like Dispelled and Risen. The Wasp can be too overpowered and cause one-sided games. The cause of that was due to not having weapons that can counter it easier. This issue happens more on Dispelled. I’ve done tests on Dispelled with Banshees replacing the Wasps, the result was fewer lopsided games due to the fact that it was harder to maneuver around the map and get kills.

Mode Prefrences
• I currently don’t have any mode preferences at this time. If any feedback/ideas come up I’ll make another post.

Thank you giving us the opportunity to provide feedback for the Big Team Battle Refresh. I really hope Big Team Battle will manage to stay as a permanent playlist in Halo 5.
MAGNUM/AR STARTS - on some maps...This needs to happen, and it would reallyhelp diversify the BTB experience. (Ancestor, for example, was originally designed with that in mind) However, some maps may play better with the BRs...so I think having a mix would be great, depending on the map.

WARTHOGS are fine...vehicle gameplay is fun, but especially in Halo 5, tons of vehicles should never be thrown onto already existing maps just for the purpose of throwing on more vehicles...oftentimes maps in H5 work really well with certain vehicle combinations, but can be ruined by vehicles which don't suit it. I think Dispelled and Ancestor are great examples of 'BTB heavies' maps, and Scavenger is a great example of a good warthog/light vehicle map.

MODE PREFERENCES...1-flag CTF would be awesome and tons of fans are requesting it!

With love,
JurassicWeeMan (previously weeeeemann)
Co-forger to D4rkDeath (BTB Ancestor)
I'd like to see Magnum spawns because they'd make vehicles instantly more viable I imagine. You can have Heavies versions of the maps with more power weapons, vehicles, and BR spawns. Also make it mainly an objective playlist because a good BTB obj game is hardly matched.
Feedback:
  • Map Rotation - Maps that I believe should be removed - Risen, Recurve, Dispelled, Altar (Dispelled and Altar rarely result in close games due to the map control snowball)
  • Map Rotation - Maps that I believe should be brought back - Basin, Antifreeze, Estuary
  • Map and Gametypes - I think we want more variety in map selection, not necessarily game mode. It seems like Dispelled and Eagle Square is played more than any other maps because there currently is three different game types associated with it - Slayer, CTF, and Assault. Whereas maps like Entombed and Guillotine only have one game type associated with it making them the least played maps. I think there should be even chance of getting a different maps ONLY, not map+gametype.
  • 15/16 glitch - if it can't be fixed, loosen the matchmaking to allow the spot to be filled quickly. Otherwise, reduce the length of the matching timeout (currently at 4 or 5 minutes?) Seriously this is pushing people away from the playlist.
  • Match teams of 6 or more against other teams of 6 or more, regardless of skill.
Ideas:
  • Higher XP Reward for games
  • Shorter time limit for CTF and Assault - reduce from 16 to 12 minutes (3 min OT remains). 15 minute MAX
  • Shorter respawn time (5 seconds)
  • Sprinkle a higher tier WZ weapon in each of the maps (i.e. arclight instead of rail gun on some maps especially recurve)
  • Similar to Warzone Warlords, bring out a BTB Battlelords playlist for a weekend or week! Bring the Team back to Big Team Battle!
Wishlist:
  • BTB Battlelords for a week or weekend (teams must search with 8)
  • Ranked BTB for a season
  • Swap out the BR for something else
  • Release a refresh on a Thursday or Friday so people can start playing it on the weekend
Quote:
Please post your feedback, ideas, and wish list items in this thread and we'll read through them and see how they fit into what we're doing right now.We're especially curious right now about:
  • Starting weapon ideas (though keep in mind we can't change the behavior of specific weapons) - H2BR or Stabilized Jet BR
  • Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? To be honest, a lot of people are commenting that its too easy to be shot out of the gunner. I believe a simple fix would be to replace normal warthogs with rally warthogs. Rally warthogs are faster, would be easier and quicker map traversing and would also make it more difficult to shoot out the gunner. I think more people would be tempted to use it. Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general? Yes, in general I believe there are enough larger maps to enjoy vehicles in general.
  • What about mode preferences? I am happy with the game modes as of now but would love if BTB Heavies was sprinkled in as a game mode. Similar to BTB Fiesta but instead of random weapons, ONI Tanks, Temple Wraith, Banshee Ultra, ONI Gauss, etc.
  • Starting weapon ideas (though keep in mind we can't change the behavior of specific weapons): Pistols please
  • Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general? Definitely not enough large maps for vehicles. How about some Phaetons?
  • What about mode preferences? No preference except maybe have Slayer weighted less.
I would love to see some of the "old" maps come back into rotation, maybe even let us try some new maps.

That's it. I think that changing it up to Pistol starts will be such a big difference that it'll be like playing a new BTB.
Add some larger maps that aren't as confined. If I wanted to play in small maps and run around narrow hallways, I'd play a 4v4 game mode.
Donuts4TW wrote:
Add some larger maps that aren't as confined. If I wanted to play in small maps and run around narrow hallways, I'd play a 4v4 game mode.
Which maps are you referring to?
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 45