Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

Big Team Battle Refresh Feedback

OP ZaedynFel

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  • Starting weapon ideas
  1. Starting weapons are fine. The current BR allows for more skilled players to be rewarded at farther distance.
  2. The AR makes for a great secondary weapon, balancing short- and mid-range.
  3. For those that enjoy other weapons, or variations of current weapons, they may be placed throughout map.
  4. I've read other suggestions for the pistol being a starting weapon; the pistol should not be the primary weapon in BTB, though works well as pick-up on map if needed.
  • Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general?
  1. Regarding the Warthog, the Gauss variant doesn't need changing, though the Chain-Gun-Turret isn't very viable, particularly when mounted. Individuals who use the mounted turrets, are usually less skilled (just an observation). Making the mounted turrets more effective may change the dynamic of their use, and provide more fun. It may not make sense to have differing power of chain-gun-turrets when on a vehicle versus off. If possible, you may consider keeping turret damage level and overheat rate the same, while applying a forward-facing-shield to both mounted and warthog chain-guns (especially since it is easy to shoot a gunner from the turret). Another alternative would be increasing the power of the chain-gun turret, while increasing the rate at which it overheats. And of course, feel free to fiddle with combinations of damage, overheating, and potential shields.
  2. I don't frequent vehicle usage, however, most maps that contain aerial vehicles may often become too one-sided. For individuals joining BTB with multiple friends in their fireteam, the challenge of controlling vehicles and power-ups works well, and requires communication amongst members. That being said, there may be many players who love the experience of BTB, but don't often have other fireteam members, or teammates that use theirs mics when in-game, making communication and teamwork next to impossible. Counteracting someone who knows how to use an aerial vehicle can be troublesome, even for the most skilled players.
  3. Addition of larger maps would probably be well received by the community.
  • Mode preferences?
  1. Modes are fine.
  2. BTB experience per duration should be similar to other arena playlists. Also, if there is a way to compensate those who have played a minimum amount of BTB, i.e. Legendary Arena XP boosts (an amount that covers previous XP opportunity lost due to playing BTB over other playlists), that would be Super Amazing!
  3. Reduce the frequency of Dispelled, Risen, and Deadlock, if kept in BTB.
  4. My favorite BTB maps, in no particular order: Viking, Boulevard, Guillotine, Eagle Square, Fracture.
  5. My least favorite map: Dispelled; though may be due to 1) difficult to counteract wasps 2) no room for a tank.
  6. Maybe bring back Basin.
  7. If there were a way to fix the ability to find a match in BTB, that would be great; I often spend equal amount of time waiting as I do playing. There is often, what appears to be, a glitch where the lobby is stuck at 15/16 players.
  8. One last thing; why does the game freeze so frequently, and for everybody? "Yeah, mine froze again." "Okay, everyone restart Halo, or join a different friend since we're locked in."
Thank you for this! I am sure we all appreciate you taking the time to reach out to the community regarding our feedback.
Only one thing stands out to me as a necessary change. Lower the minimum required players to start to 12-14. I remember very vividly being permanently stuck waiting for a 16th player to join, never receiving one, and being booted out after waiting for 3-4 minutes
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE for the love of Halo remove some flying vehicles from the maps.... Wasps literally ruin the fun of BtB matches...

PS... Please bring back Basin! :)
XLR8 wrote:
Only one thing stands out to me as a necessary change. Lower the minimum required players to start to 12-14. I remember very vividly being permanently stuck waiting for a 16th player to join, never receiving one, and being booted out after waiting for 3-4 minutes
Agree with you here. It is so incredibly frustrating when you get a game, only to have someone drop out and inevitably reset the search...
I may be in the minority here, but I'd prefer if the playlist had only Big Team Slayer and Big Team Strongholds. Both of those gamemodes constantly progress to keep good pacing in the matches.

While CTF and Assault can have intense moments, more often than not the matches will go to the time limit instead of score and usually end up being overall less enjoyable.

As for weapons, any map that has a banshee, wraith or scorpion, should have sufficient weaponry to deal with them. Wether it be multiple plasma pistols or a Sentinel Beam or 2 ;)
The standard warthog needs a buff. The BR seems it kills faster than the gun on the warthog and that isn't how it should work at all. In previous Halo titles if you heard a warthog going you had to take cover and change tactics to deal with it... In H5 the worthog is no sweat really and seems to hinder rather than help in combat in some cases as it would have been more beneficial had those players just used their BRs rather than get in the warthog. Other than that I would just like to see maps get a big bigger and less cluttered to be better for vehicles.
Pistol starts. No version of the BR is as fair, satisfying, skillful, or fun as the Magnum. It just doesn't work in this game.
Flying vehicles are also still too strong(wasp).
Volize wrote:
XLR8 wrote:
Only one thing stands out to me as a necessary change. Lower the minimum required players to start to 12-14. I remember very vividly being permanently stuck waiting for a 16th player to join, never receiving one, and being booted out after waiting for 3-4 minutes
Agree with you here. It is so incredibly frustrating when you get a game, only to have someone drop out and inevitably reset the search...
I was just going to add this. I've been playing tonight and have been getting in this loop a bit.
I think a lot of issues stem from the theme of the playlist being based around city maps. This means that the most bland palette in the game is used constantly making people less interested aesthetically as well as for gameplay. It may seem a small issue, but it already decreases interest in an all Forge map playlist.

I would suggest more open maps that encourage vehicle play and use more natural or alien terrain. While many of the city maps look awesome and play alright I feel that this would give people more incentive to learn the map and play more effectively. Perhaps take out all city maps except for Guillotine (mainly because it’s a launch BTB map), and one other like Eagle Square or Traffic Jam and replace them with open maps that are of the natural terrain, Forerunner or Covenant themes.
  1. Fix matchmaking. (High priority)
    a) It's impossible to find games with friends who play competitively (perhaps due to MMR and game balancing?)
    b) If or when matches are found, it seems as if everyone waits for the 16th player to load. More often than not, that person doesn't load and that's roughly 75 person minutes lost in that single attempt. If you can, you should shadow or watch the experience of teams trying to find matches, you'll no doubt develop some much needed empathy.
  2. Ranking. (Medium priority)
    Social lists should not have hidden MMR. If you want to enforce a rank with BTB, just make an explicit BTB Ranked playlist.
  3. Weapons. (Low priority)
    Stabilize the BR a bit more.
  4. Maps. (Medium Priority)
    a) Get rid of some
    b) Introduce old ones
    c) Inject some new ones in the mix
    d) Don't introduce competing playlists like 3 versions of fiesta

First of all, a btb fresh isn’t going make btb more fun to play if we can’t search btb with our friends because we are put in the god class as a player due to our mmr. I search solo and match the same teams of 6-8 partied up together that can find games with their friends but I can’t with my friends??? My randoms are always going 1-20 each against a team! How do you expect someone to even have a chance at winning when it’s basically 1v8? Why are good players punished? Why am I going 100-10 on eagle square and still losing 3-2 cause my randoms are in respawn the entire game? Why are my randoms mostly always new accounts against a full team? It doesn’t matter which account I play on I’m punished! If there’s going to be a btb refresh, there needs to be something done about the search preferences! If you want to change the br then I would suggest the stabilization br or keep it the same. There’s like 12 btb maps and I play the same four 90% of the day. Yes a few people will come back to a btb refresh but it’s gonna instantly flop if they can’t search with their friends. Halo is a competitive game and now with not being able to search with my friends it’s more favored to low mmr teams of 8 and the competitive players have stopped because who wants to search a losing battle 95% of the time? They will either go search btb fiesta with their friends or just be go play mcc or just play something that isn’t parental control. It’s not my fault if my team is better then another team. The only way a btb refresh will do anything to btb is if you remove the mmr or team balancer. Of course there will be a lot of people who will disagree and that’s because they can’t stand losing against a better team! Just think about it! You lost your first have of population in btb when you changed the battle rifle and now you lost more when you brought out low mmr teams able to match and find games but a high mmr team can not?! It’s social for a reason! I use to love playing btb and stream it when I could play with my friends but now it’s just pointless to play due to my skill level! This isn’t just me! I can speak for a lot of players that feel the same way! How about we stop babysitting a social playlist and let people enjoy the game how it’s meant to be played! You have turned btb into a non playable playlist unless you have a low mmr or low skilled base skill level! How is a team of 8 able to match me with randoms on my team all going 1-20 each? Why am I never matching against these players on the opposite team searching solo? Lots of questions but I will prolly not receive an answer to any of this!
Starting weapon ideas:
  • Take out the BR and replace it with the stabilized jets BR. Feels very weird and out of place when switching from normal arena where you are trained to aim at the head with the magnum to BTB where you need to aim slightly below the head with the BR. Feel like I'm trying to lead my shots like H3 except I'm not because they're not falling. Gives people another free shot because if they jump, chances are you're not going to kill them on your supposed kill shot because if you aim at the head the bullets will just go over due to recoil, but if are aiming slightly below their head, it will go to their lower torso when they jump. Just feels out of place and makes kills take an extra unnecessary shot. Same thing applies when they crouch strafe too, just the bullets go over their head even though your aimer is on their head since they crouch into it. Just takes skill out a little bit and adds a bit of randomness to a game that's most redeeming feature is the accuracy of its weapons.
  • The AR is a fine secondary. Very versatile and good for putting damage onto vehicles.
Vehicle gameplay:
  • I saw the idea of Rally Hogs being introduced and I really like that idea. A lil faster and harder to shoot. I also think an ONI hog would be a good substitute too, especially if we are able to get a better starting weapon so that it balances out. Another note to mention about hogs is to take out the gauss hog on Viking. It controls the game entirely and slows down the pace to a very looooong stalemate at the beginning.
  • On Deadlock, the hydras should be removed and replaced with grenade launchers and then have the sword ghosts demoted to regular ghosts to reflect the changes. Hydra respawns really fast and has the same effect as the gauss hogs on Vking. Or just take them out altogether since the Plasma Pistol counters the ghosts effectively and a normal ghost would get shredded with 2 or 3 people shooting it while it is EMP'd.
  • Just remove Dispelled altogether or take out the scorpions. Has way too many vehicles for just the two bottom lanes, which is pretty much the only place they're used. Makes the vehicle gameplay way too congested and restrictive. Just not a good map for ground vehicles in general. Hogs and Ghosts are fine though since they fly around and are a pest without overwhelming and dominating the entire bottom half of the map. A laser top mid would be nice to counter the wasps. Dispelled is a map that hydras could work on since it isn't as flat as Deadlock. An upgraded caster would work too and be more fun to use without disrupting the flow of the game.
  • Also, I think replacing all the lasers on the maps with a better tiered laser would be nice on vehicle heavy maps like Viking.
  • Giving Guillotine the vehicle loadout of Reach Anniversary would spice up the gameplay on that map instead of being so focused on the wasp. Blue base gets a low-tier gauss hog and Red gets a sword banshee would be pretty fair I think.
  • Increase Wraith spawn on Entombed to 2:30.
Modes:
  • One sided modes are sorely missed. 1 Flag on Guillotine would be so so so sweet. People in the raiding clan community like the whole defense and attack thing and it is definitely something that should come back to BTB. H2 did it best with map design and variety in BTB. Try to replicate what they did with some community made asymmetrical BTB maps with distinct bases and starting points. Im thinking of maps like Relic, Terminal, and Burial Mounds. Definitely makes for some of the best BTB Objective goodness out there. It is also a lot easier to follow for casual players who might lose track of the bomb on these neutral assault games in Halo 5 as it can be very hectic at times.
  • Basin flag/slayer was the best starting map for H5 and neutral assault would work well on it as well. Nice balance of regular vehicles, weapons, and map power points.
  • Spawns are too erratic on Altar.
  • Coagulation/Blood Gulch/Hemorrhage would be the perfect map for the tanks instead of Dispelled. Not a lot of good maps out there where Scorpions work, but this is definitely one of them.
EXTRA:
  • The 15/16 glitch, matchmaking error, MMR restrictions, or whatever it is. Major buzzkill that adds so much extra time to searching. People wanna just hop into a matchmaking game quick like in Fortnite or COD. This can really ruin a gaming experience.
  • Make camo 3 minutes on Deadlock or offset the rocket and camo spawns. 3 for one and 2 for the other, that way they're both not up at the same time every time. Deadlock seems to revolve around that combo in competitive play and it's so cheese.
  • BTB Battlelords would be so cool, especially if BTB gets put on rotation. Like a week with ranks where teams can match teams. I wanna say y'all could tie spartan companies to it and give spartan companies a badge on Waypoint for participating and another one if they placed good among the teams. Maybe not in Halo 5, but something like that would be so dope for Infinite!
  • Make the maps more lore based, give us a reason to be battling it out where we are battling it out. Add a special weapon there as well. You have all these cool REQ cards that people in Warzone and Fiesta love playing with, throw one of them in on some of these maps. A higher tiered Gravity Hammer would be cool to play around with on Recurve. Better yet, gives us Mythic BTB as a special event where vehicles and power weapons are the legendary and mythic REQ variants. Halo 5 social community would love that and I think the competitive BTB players would enjoy it as well. Nice change of pace without being random!
I'd say put in Tactical pistol or pistol starts, and replace normal BRs on the map with either long barrel or stabilized BR. Take out Dispelled. Bring back Antifreeze and Estuary. As far as objectives, maybe make it more CTF heavy over Assault. Assault is weak on some maps. A good balance of Strongholds and Slayer is good though.

Also, It needs to be ranked to keep players in the playlist!
First off, thank you for making this thread and asking for our opinions - the community really appreciates it! I almost exclusively play Halo BTB, so I feel pretty strongly about keeping it a permanent playlist. My thoughts on what you said you're curious about are below (apologies in advance if it gets too lengthy):

1. Starting Weapons
I personally prefer using the Stabilization Jets BR or Long-Barrel BR as opposed to the default version, but wouldn't be too upset if the default version was left in. I'd strongly prefer ANY type of BR over the magnum, which I think should be reserved for 4v4 Arena gameplay. The AR is an appropriate secondary weapon in my opinion.

2. Vehicle Gameplay
I love vehicle gameplay, and think it's an integral part of the Halo BTB experience. But to be honest, I've been pretty disappointed with the Halo 5 BTB vehicle gameplay. It saddens me to see how the Warthog has been reduced to a utility vehicle that's only used to pick up the flag/bomb carrier, and rarely utilized to help control the map (except the Gauss on Viking). It's far too easy to shoot the gunner out, and just isn't viable on most maps. The only maps in the current rotation where I think the Hog is really effective is the Gauss on Viking (which is extremely effective and fun) and the Chain Hog on Scavenger. One way to increase the usefulness of the Hog would be to reduce bullet magnetism on the gunner (similar to the current mechanics of the Mongoose).

It also feels like the current BTB rotation is a little too vehicle-light. Eagle Square, Traffic Jam, Port Authority, Boulevards, Deadlock, Scavenger - none of these maps have any heavy vehicles. I personally really enjoy Port Authority, Deadlock, and Scavenger, but at times it feels like I'll play BTB for hours at a time and not be able to use a single heavy vehicle. At times, the current version of BTB feels more like regular Team Slayer...only with 8v8 crammed in instead of 4v4. I think the lack of vehicles in regular BTB is a big reason a lot of players (especially less experienced/more casual players who don't just want to use a BR all day) prefer BTB Super Fiesta, which has tons of fun vehicles to use. A good mix of more vehicle-based maps (i.e. Viking, Dispelled) and more infantry-based maps (i.e. Deadlock, Scavenger) is key to a good BTB experience.

For example, Traffic Jam in particular feels stuffy and cramped for 16 players (Traffic JAM is a fitting name). Think of the most popular BTB maps in each Halo game. Halo CE - Blood Gulch; Halo 2 - literally EVERY map had vehicles (Coagulation, Terminal, Headlong, etc.); Halo 3 - Sand Trap, Valhalla, Avalanche; Halo Reach - Hemorrhage, Paradiso, Boneyard, Spire; Halo 4 - Exile, Ragnarok, Vortex, Longbow; Halo 5 - Viking. These are all big, open maps with lots of room to move around, plenty of power weapons, and at least one heavy vehicle. Small maps like Traffic Jam don't stack up to any of these, and simply don't feel like a classic BTB experience.

One thing I'd ask is to please continue to make sure that all vehicles are represented in the new rotation (i.e. ensure there is at least one map with a Scorpion, one map with a Banshee, etc.). I know people complain about Dispelled a lot (and rightfully so, because it can become lopsided very quickly), but without that map there wouldn't be a single map in Arena where you'd be able to use the Scorpion, one of the most iconic vehicles in the Halo franchise.

3. Mode Preferences
Keep all current game modes represented (Slayer, CTF, Assault, Strongholds). The variety of game types keeps things interesting and ensures that there are lots of strategies for teams to learn and utilize.

4. Overall Matchmaking
As others have mentioned, please make it easier to find games when searching with a party. If I try to search in a party of more than 5-6 players it's literally impossible to find a game because the matchmaking parameters are still too tight. Why can I search TODAY with a full party in Halo 4 or Halo: Reach, but not Halo 5? Playing with friends is a fundamental part of the Halo BTB experience. After all, it's called BIG TEAM Battle. Please let us search with a BIG TEAM and find games with our friends.

That's all I have. Thank you again for listening to what the community has to say!

Regards,
Uber Rat
Pwner wrote:
First of all, a btb fresh isn’t going make btb more fun to play if we can’t search btb with our friends because we are put in the god class as a player due to our mmr... The only way a btb refresh will do anything to btb is if you remove the mmr or team balancer....
From Dr. Menke in one of the Matchmaking Feedback topics late last year:
Quote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
Definitely a new start weapon. Probably stabilization jets with classic scope or H2BR. More req varieties where nessasary. Better warthogs to counter banshees better on certain maps. More classic maps
HALO 3 EVA HELMET
Finding games is the first and foremost priority. I do not have a high mmr. I’m a diamond slayer player and don’t know what by “rank” would be in btb but doubt it would have ever been any higher than that. And I sometimes have a very hard time playing games. So I don’t know if it’s mmr related like people think.

I think the easiest fix is to allow a btb game to start with 14 players and JIP the other 2. I spend so much time sitting in the lobby screen when I want to play btb, it’s really turned me off the playlist. My team is all but gone. Been mainly a solo or very small fireteam player for months now. Fix the lobby glitch or find a work around first and foremost.

Xp should be almost doubled. Xp grinders are a big part of the community right now and they stay away from btb as it gives probably the lowest so rewards.

Perhaps rank regualr btb and allow fiedta btb as the social mode. I think btb fits into ranked play more so than social anyway.

I dont mind the new br. I think adding a laser beam br back into the playlist adds a world of problems players forgot existed before the br change.

Current gamemodes are great. Just new or refreshed maps would be awesome.

Thank you for the attention to btb 343 :).
Starting Weapons: Maybe rotate a magnum start rather than BR all the time. The BR is a pain to use and hasn't felt right using in a year. Maybe alternate BR/AR and Magnum/AR.

Vehicles: No real complaints, vehicles feel fine and have plenty of space to maneuver on the maps.

Game Modes: Fairly balanced, maybe rotate more objectI've games in rather than getting Slayer so much.

I think my main issue with BTB right now is stale maps. I enjoy them (with the exception of Scavanger), but some new ones would be nice. Other than that, the playlist is still largely enjoyable.
Current loadout weapons are not bad. Maybe add magnum instead of assault rifle. I would like to see a non vechile playlist or some of the maps without vechiles. Some maps dont have the right anti vechile weapons or not enough of them. I would also like maps that have even amount of weapons on each side. Not just one sniper but rather 2. Same for vechiles. Xp reward is wat too little for 15min + game. BTB is my favourite playlist. Add new and old maps. Larger maps aswell. If the game is a deadlock why not carry on playing longer? Have maybe ctf where you start fresh every time a team captures the flag. Even assult. I am a solo player and people hardly use mics. Try to incurage the use of mics somehow and better team play
Starting weapon ideas
I have no issues with the current BR/AR setup. I do think if a change were to occur it should be the stabilization BR and not the pistol.

Vehicle gameplay: How do you feel about the Warthog right now? Are there enough larger maps to really enjoy vehicles in general?
I feel like the warthog is fine right now. The gunner can get shot out too fast sometimes against a good team but I'm not sure if theres really anyway to combat that. I feel like the maps are large enough to enjoy vehicles right now. I've seen many people in here say the wasp is too powerful, but in my experiences its pretty easily shot down with only 1 or 2 other teammates shooting it as well.

What about mode preferences?
I would love round based gametypes (1 bomb, 1 flag) but I'm not sure how feasible that is.

As far as everything else,
- I would LOVE to see BTB get Ranked. This would bring teams back and help more with the matching of high level players.
- Add Basin, Estuary, antifreeze back in rotation and even a few new forge maps
- Have the ability to lock in at 14 (7v7)
- Maybe add a higher XP payout to bring people to come back to the playlist. I know many are grinding for that 152 for the infinite reward.
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