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Big Team Battle Refresh Feedback

OP ZaedynFel

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So much said here is assumed against the forgers not listening... If people only knew. I’m open to criticism sure, but can we stop assuming that there wasn’t a ton of people testing this stuff? And that we didn’t try anything new or different? Give us a little credit. We did much much more than people realize. If we took the time to perfect the playlist, it wouldn’t release. 15 months with 6 months of it being heavier testing. Asking to talk about things now is kind of redundant, we have a long history of doing just that. It’s so much deeper. I’m thankful to see how much positivity there has been and I’m trying to read in between the lines for some of the hate posts. I understand how passionate players are, but believe when I say we tried everything. Please don’t think any of this was not thought out, tested, discussed, etc. I think what was best had a lot of time and energy put into it. BTB was never really meant for H5 unfortunately, Warzone was it, but we had the tools to do it. I’m happy we could even create BTB to begin with. It’s great everyone cares about it so much!
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INFINUT wrote:
INFINUT wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Envore wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Envore wrote:
...
...
Thank you for replying to my response.

First, the players inside your guys testing lobbies ARE NOT equivalent to the 100's of BTB players that play BTB on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure you are aware of that. There are definitely a ton of players of players who dislike it, I'll let the data for the BTB Refresh show that.

Second, the problems I have with this new Dispelled:

- Since you guys took off snipe to promote more infantry, our only choices to take down aerial vehicles like the banshee is the sentinel beam and railgun. When playing against teams who play together, you aren't going to be able to take down a Banshee as easy as people think. That map has so much cover compared to the old Dispelled. Also, how are you promoting infantry more if players have to constantly worry about a Banshee? The Wasp isn't as powerful than the Banshee and made movement flow a lot better playing on the map.

To Be Realistic, BTB Heavies is not something that can be bring to Ranked BTB. It's time consuming and are played down to the clock. The map is already long enough and to add a Banshee increases the duration since players already have a hard time dealing with them and spawns are closer to the base so it takes longer in duration getting to the base. There should be data shown of flag touches vs. duration of the game for Dispelled.
We need more maps that don't take long to finish.

I would like to explain to you in more detail why we don't like the map. Perhaps we can talk in a party at a certain point.
Thanks for providing some more constructive feedback.

To address the testing lobby remark, the number of people we had was quite diverse. We had everything from forgers, to scripters, to pro halo players, to casual drop-ins. Over the span of the official testing period since the announcement there have been easily over 100 different unique players involved. Additionally, I did get some data today regarding Dispelled's performance and so far it has been a significant improvement. I'm personally happy about the outcome. Unless you have some other data that I am unaware of.

Aerial vehicles on Dispelled are now easier than ever to counter. There are currently 6+ counters. There are the sentinel beams and plasma pistols near the base, rail guns and SPNKR on weapon pads, plus Tanks and Rocket Hogs. Since the Banshee flip cool-down was increased a Tank can easily challenge the Banshee. The way the Wasp could maneuver around cover was making it much too strong.

To address your second concern, CTF was changed to Flag-Away-From-Home scoring for that reason. Not just Dispelled, but a lot of maps suffered from long games or stalemates. Ultimately, it is not my decision what makes it into Ranked. I personally consider it Heavy for a Halo 5 map, but some would argue that it still needs more to be BTB Heavy. Dispelled is just offering one of the closes experiences that works with the H5 sandbox while still keeping it competitive.

Envore wrote:
Dispelled - No ones favorite.
One more thing. While it may not be your favorite, some of us do like it. :)

I would be happy to listen to constructive feedback, hit me up sometime if you ever see me on Halo 5 and we can talk about it.
Not sure why the whole opinion is capitalized, guess this is that anti social can’t handle when someone doesn’t agree with them response but when you say a huge majority does that include the over 300 player discord of BTB and Warzone players that left BTB that all hate the current BR? If you would like we can talk in a party chat and you can post on twitter all the players comments that say they enjoy the current BR and I can post on Twitter the hundreds including streamers clips and pros advocating for the change above all else. Once again at the very least Darkdeath can have a intelligent discussion about issues without trying to sound pointed with capitalized letters what the heck is that? Sounds like a weak person that doesn’t have any basis of an argument other than oh I forge so therefore I know. Relax, only actual serious forgers like Foge, Darkdeath,Squally, Randy, Blaze, killtrocity should be the ones talking since clearly you can’t take criticism without over reacting. So Darkdeath you say feedback is redundant however the community was asked to give “feedback” so that the playlist can be improved and tightened up for “ranked” BTB. It’s not redundant and I hope you add myself and other dedicated players too see where real compromise and change can be possible. Like I mentioned earlier, no one is saying the refresh has to be completely changed however their are certainly aspects of maps that were added and reworked that can be fixed for a more competitive experience for Ranked. Please let me know when your available to talk.
Where all open to feedback but throwing shade at us forges isn't going to help you in anyway but you know if you have such great and refined ideas and feel you know exactly what a GREAT BTB MAP NEEDS then why do you make your own. i mean if you're calling any of us forgers out then you must clearly know how to create and design maps better then us right.

But seriously all things consider you've already proved that you're inflammatory and unlikely able to hold a civil conversation (which is ironic since you wanted to have meaningful lengthy discussion over Xbox live). it also shows you have little respect for the majority of forgers who worked on this update, who without you'd never have gotten a btb refresh. but you who has contributed nothing sure has a lot to say. envore who may not have offered a lot of constructive feedback still remained in a position that he could be worth talking to but you not so much.
but as d4rkdeath said Asking to talk about things now is kind of redundant.
This popcorn sure is salty.
TimeDipper wrote:
Envore wrote:
TimeDipper wrote:
Envore wrote:
...
Aerial vehicles on Dispelled are now easier than ever to counter. There are currently 6+ counters. There are the sentinel beams and plasma pistols near the base, rail guns and SPNKR on weapon pads, plus Tanks and Rocket Hogs. Since the Banshee flip cool-down was increased a Tank can easily challenge the Banshee. The way the Wasp could maneuver around cover was making it much too strong.
While I think it's good that there are counters on the map for the vehichles, I don't think it's a good idea to these counters on it, or at least this much. I was playing with one of my friends and the two of us matched a team. 2 of our teammates quit out and what was left was a 6 man team versus an 8 man team, eventually half them were equiped with power weapons and two others were in a banshee. I think there are other options than railguns and rocket launchers to counter vehicles.
For example; more plasma pistols, sentinel beams or a laser placed on a neutral position mid map (bottom mid?).

The rocket hog is pretty much useless against a banshee. It takes forever to lock on to it, and you will seldomly have someone to drive you around. Besides that, it is definitely not as easy as you are making it sound like to hit a banshee mid air with a scorpion.
I do not understand your delirium to put vehicles / weapons cheat every 2 meters ... it looks like the end of halo reach (btb heavies powaaah) there is no competitiveness to do that! frankly if you find that your new maps are good and well balanced we can not do anything for you anymore pour and to conclude: still discuss the fact that the Br is well balanced is a joke ... either you play 15 games a month in the playlist / or you are blind. Any good player will tell you (and knowing that the btb comp must touch competitive players) the question is quickly looped
D4rkDeath wrote:
So much said here is assumed against the forgers not listening... If people only knew. I’m open to criticism sure, but can we stop assuming that there wasn’t a ton of people testing this stuff? And that we didn’t try anything new or different? Give us a little credit. We did much much more than people realize. If we took the time to perfect the playlist, it wouldn’t release. 15 months with 6 months of it being heavier testing. Asking to talk about things now is kind of redundant, we have a long history of doing just that. It’s so much deeper. I’m thankful to see how much positivity there has been and I’m trying to read in between the lines for some of the hate posts. I understand how passionate players are, but believe when I say we tried everything. Please don’t think any of this was not thought out, tested, discussed, etc. I think what was best had a lot of time and energy put into it. BTB was never really meant for H5 unfortunately, Warzone was it, but we had the tools to do it. I’m happy we could even create BTB to begin with. It’s great everyone cares about it so much!
Did you guys really test Deadheat and think it was a proper replacement to the current deadlock? Furthermore - what was the reason for refreshing that map? This is the only map that really has me dumbfounded. I thought that Deadlock was a perfect map - balanced, aesthetics, and CTF game mode was really great on it.

I really enjoy the addition of Voyager. I think it's a great map. Like strongholds for that map. I also enjoy Meander for the 1-flag game mode. Crossbow is another map that has some really great potential.

Overall I thought that the forgers put forth a lot of effort, with only a few maps/gametypes that have come out to play well. I appreciate the effort put forth.
I don't undestarnd why we still have BR.
A skilled player with a DMR can block about 5 players in map like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/019f9169-0d36-435c-9d76-f2641b00c4c3/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=17&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All because the enemy can't hit you.
I am wondering how can a team make a comeback if the enemy team have vehicles and power weapon?
I don't undestarnd why we still have BR.
A skilled player with a DMR can block about 5 players in map like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/019f9169-0d36-435c-9d76-f2641b00c4c3/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=17&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All because the enemy can't hit you.
I am wondering how can a team make a comeback if the enemy team have vehicles and power weapon?
true that can happen but imagine if the skilled players had weapons like the ever requested SJBR you'd likely have a far worse time since they could laser you from much farther away. a better br will only help sweats more then it will help the less skilled players.
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Je vous invite à aller voir dans mon dossier sur Halo 5, (vous vous en reprochez à certains de ne pas faire leurs propres cartes), c'est la playlist sur laquelle nous avons fait près de 2 ans de compétition en France ... J'adore btb / Halo En , et je peux vous assurer que les cartes sont 100 fois meilleures que le jumelage et beaucoup plus compétitives. Fragtaale
I hope you continue to enjoy Crossbow and i hope it lives up to the potential you feel it has.
Crossbow is probably my favorite new map.

Update on my play-testing the playlist: 67 matches thus far (EDIT: 05-24-19 | 1105 Hours)
  • Ancestor (IIIIIII) | CTF (III) | Assault (IIII)
  • Pioneer (IIIIII) | Slayer (IIII) | Strongholds (II)
  • Hinterlands (IIIIII) | Slayer (IIIII) | Strongholds (I)
  • Crossbow (IIIIII) | Slayer (IIII) | Assault (II)
  • Voyager (IIIII) | 1-Flag (IIII) | Slayer (I)
  • Guillotine (IIIII) | Slayer (I) | 1-Flag (III) | Strongholds (I)
  • Entombed (IIII) | Slayer (II) | Strongholds (II)
  • Dispelled (IIII) | Slayer (III) | CTF (I)
  • Boulevard (IIII) | Slayer (I) | Strongholds (III)
  • Viking (IIII) | CTF (II) | Slayer (II)
  • Echoes (II) | CTF (II)
  • Meander (II) | Strongholds (I) | 1-Flag (I)
  • Fracture (II) | CTF (II)
  • Fossil (II) | Slayer (II)
  • Dead Heat (II) | Slayer (II)
  • Port Authority (II) | Slayer (II)
  • Traffic Jam (II) | Assault (I) | Slayer (I)
  • Scavenger (I) | Strongholds (I)
  • Panic Attack (I) | Slayer (I)
I don't undestarnd why we still have BR.
A skilled player with a DMR can block about 5 players in map like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/019f9169-0d36-435c-9d76-f2641b00c4c3/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=17&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All because the enemy can't hit you.
I am wondering how can a team make a comeback if the enemy team have vehicles and power weapon?
true that can happen but imagine if the skilled players had weapons like the ever requested SJBR you'd likely have a far worse time since they could laser you from much farther away. a better br will only help sweats more then it will help the less skilled players.
he would be dead because 5 shot at body you are one shot so you must hide or 5 headshot you are dead (like arena).
i just show you a game where I made 14 kill only with a DMR in less than 3 minutes because the enemy team tried to kill me with the BR
EDIT
Most of them are above 140 ranked diamond, onyx, champion
With Halo Infinite still being a while away, I feel that the refresh was indeed quite refreshing and all the forgers and testers involved did a very good job in terms of updating and testing out these new maps.

Weapon balancing has been done several times since the game's release, I feel to make further changes would be wasted time and effort; time and effort can instead be put into other areas of the game to create more interest and sustainability. The best result in terms of weapon balancing, would be to take the feedback into Halo Infinite. Forgers can only work with what they can in Halo 5, and they have done their best in regards to initial weapon spawns.

In regards to what D4rkDeath said: 'If we took the time to perfect the playlist, it wouldn’t release. 15 months with 6 months of it being heavier testing.' you won't truly see the results of map testing until it released into the community. Map testing can become very repetitive and quite draining when resolving issues once they arise. Now that the maps are in matchmaking, it would be much easier to see where improvements can be made, as it's on a MUCH larger scale.

Nothing will be perfect on it's initial release, so it's a matter of recognising what improvements can be made.

As consumers you'll only ever see the end result, you'll never truly understand the hard work that goes into making things like this happen. It is fair to be critical in what can be improved, however criticism should always be constructive. If you make a critique and don't provide a resolution for what you're critiquing, you are not providing helpful feedback; in my opinion you are in fact worse than the problem that you're addressing.

In conclusion, I would like to congratulate all of the forgers and the testers for all of their hard work. There is such a wide selection of maps in the BTB playlist now, and it is awesome that there are still updates like this taking place. With 343 recognising the importance of the forging community, I really look forward to Halo Infinite; the creation of new maps and custom games is what has made the later Halo games last a lifetime. Thank you, and keep up the great work.
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aller chercher la traduction et que >>>>
https://www.halo.fr/e-sport/29830/la-playlist-btb-est-devoilee/
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Is your SR 1?
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