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Big Team Battle Refresh Feedback

OP ZaedynFel

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Here is a brief summary of my feedback for the BTB Refresh:
1) The total gametypes playable on the current map rotation are as follows:
  • 16 Slayer
  • 6 Assault
  • 8 CTF
  • 8 Strongholds
  • 3 1-Flag
The "Slayer" gametype is played on FAR too many maps in the rotation (currently all but two of the maps play Slayer). Suggest removing Slayer from large, symmetrical maps better suited for objective. Dispelled, Dead Heat, Crossbow, Echoes, Traffic Jam, Viking, and Fossil should not have Slayer (this would put total Slayer maps at 9, which is incredibly reasonable). If a map is reduced to a singular gametype due to the removal of Slayer, add Assault/CTF accordingly. Strongholds and 1-Flag will naturally always be on the lower end of the spectrum.
2) When searching matchmaking repeated maps/gametypes are all too common. Even when searching with the same group of players and waiting through the intermission it is still possible to get the same map several times in a row (and even the same gametype). Map/gametype combinations need to vary and back-to-back repeated maps need to be a rare occurrence when searching matchmaking.
3) Pioneer still has no active way to consistently deal with the scorpion tanks (2min respawn) which creates incredibly frustrating gameplay. Strongly suggest adding at least one Plasma Pistol to the map. One team gets active-camo at the start of the game every time due to it's location favoring one side. Camo is too powerful to automatically give to one team as they can take down the enemy tank and put their own team at a huge advantage early. Suggest placing camo in the center between both teams.
4) Viking's Spartan Laser placement (on the side of the map) is highly questionable. Strongly suggest switch grenade launcher spawn (top mid) with Spartan Laser so that both teams are drawn towards the center of the map instead of along one side. If the Spartan Laser remains in its current location it is far too easy to escape along one side of the map back to a base with said weapon while all the action is happening towards the center of the map.
5) I strongly disagree with Panic Attack being in the BTB map rotation. It's cramped, spawn-killing is frequent, survivability is low, and the map does not feel like a BTB map should in almost any way. The choke points mid-map are horrendous and create constant "pinches" where it is next to impossible to stay alive for any length of time.

Thank you for reading my feedback and giving me the opportunity to shape this playlist.
- Genesis Rider
I really hope xp is upped for Btb when it goes ranked. Even at its featured double zip state it is okay, but when that’s gone the xp at the end is very underwhelming.
Here is a brief summary of my feedback for the BTB Refresh:
1) The total gametypes playable on the current map rotation are as follows:
  • 16 Slayer
  • 6 Assault
  • 8 CTF
  • 8 Strongholds
  • 3 1-Flag
The "Slayer" gametype is played on FAR too many maps in the rotation (currently all but two of the maps play Slayer). Suggest removing Slayer from large, symmetrical maps better suited for objective. Dispelled, Dead Heat, Crossbow, Echoes, Traffic Jam, Viking, and Fossil should not have Slayer (this would put total Slayer maps at 9, which is incredibly reasonable). If a map is reduced to a singular gametype due to the removal of Slayer, add Assault/CTF accordingly. Strongholds and 1-Flag will naturally always be on the lower end of the spectrum.
2) When searching matchmaking repeated maps/gametypes are all too common. Even when searching with the same group of players and waiting through the intermission it is still possible to get the same map several times in a row (and even the same gametype). Map/gametype combinations need to vary and back-to-back repeated maps need to be a rare occurrence when searching matchmaking.
3) Pioneer still has no active way to consistently deal with the scorpion tanks (2min respawn) which creates incredibly frustrating gameplay. Strongly suggest adding at least one Plasma Pistol to the map. One team gets active-camo at the start of the game every time due to it's location favoring one side. Camo is too powerful to automatically give to one team as they can take down the enemy tank and put their own team at a huge advantage early. Suggest placing camo in the center between both teams.
4) Viking's Spartan Laser placement (on the side of the map) is highly questionable. Strongly suggest switch grenade launcher spawn (top mid) with Spartan Laser so that both teams are drawn towards the center of the map instead of along one side. If the Spartan Laser remains in its current location it is far too easy to escape along one side of the map back to a base with said weapon while all the action is happening towards the center of the map.
5) I strongly disagree with Panic Attack being in the BTB map rotation. It's cramped, spawn-killing is frequent, survivability is low, and the map does not feel like a BTB map should in almost any way. The choke points mid-map are horrendous and create constant "pinches" where it is next to impossible to stay alive for any length of time.

Thank you for reading my feedback and giving me the opportunity to shape this playlist.
- Genesis Rider
I'm seeing the opposite problem with slayer. I'm not seeing enough in this playlist, leading to it feeling objective heavy and some what slow to play. I'd like to be able play slayer on all of the maps, so I can get a better experience. I can only hope I get a better chance to play BTB, so I can maybe understand your view on it's current state, but until then, It can stay the way it is for now.
Here is a brief summary of my feedback for the BTB Refresh:
1) The total gametypes playable on the current map rotation are as follows:
  • 16 Slayer
  • 6 Assault
  • 8 CTF
  • 8 Strongholds
  • 3 1-Flag
The "Slayer" gametype is played on FAR too many maps in the rotation (currently all but two of the maps play Slayer). Suggest removing Slayer from large, symmetrical maps better suited for objective. Dispelled, Dead Heat, Crossbow, Echoes, Traffic Jam, Viking, and Fossil should not have Slayer (this would put total Slayer maps at 9, which is incredibly reasonable). If a map is reduced to a singular gametype due to the removal of Slayer, add Assault/CTF accordingly. Strongholds and 1-Flag will naturally always be on the lower end of the spectrum.
2) When searching matchmaking repeated maps/gametypes are all too common. Even when searching with the same group of players and waiting through the intermission it is still possible to get the same map several times in a row (and even the same gametype). Map/gametype combinations need to vary and back-to-back repeated maps need to be a rare occurrence when searching matchmaking.
3) Pioneer still has no active way to consistently deal with the scorpion tanks (2min respawn) which creates incredibly frustrating gameplay. Strongly suggest adding at least one Plasma Pistol to the map. One team gets active-camo at the start of the game every time due to it's location favoring one side. Camo is too powerful to automatically give to one team as they can take down the enemy tank and put their own team at a huge advantage early. Suggest placing camo in the center between both teams.
4) Viking's Spartan Laser placement (on the side of the map) is highly questionable. Strongly suggest switch grenade launcher spawn (top mid) with Spartan Laser so that both teams are drawn towards the center of the map instead of along one side. If the Spartan Laser remains in its current location it is far too easy to escape along one side of the map back to a base with said weapon while all the action is happening towards the center of the map.
5) I strongly disagree with Panic Attack being in the BTB map rotation. It's cramped, spawn-killing is frequent, survivability is low, and the map does not feel like a BTB map should in almost any way. The choke points mid-map are horrendous and create constant "pinches" where it is next to impossible to stay alive for any length of time.

Thank you for reading my feedback and giving me the opportunity to shape this playlist.
- Genesis Rider
I agree with more or less all of this but.
1. I'd only drop slayer down to 11 to 12 maps as symmetrical slayer should be represented. it does come up to often but their are people who want to play slayer more.
2. I don't think a plasma pistol is the correct weapon to add to check the tanks but i do think another counter should be added.
3. I've never agreed with the laser position change and the points you've brought up are very true.
4. I think you're being a little harsh on panic attack but the issues you've brought up are true in one form or another.
BTB refresh cant wait for rank. :)
Here is a brief summary of my feedback for the BTB Refresh:
1) The total gametypes playable on the current map rotation are as follows:
  • 16 Slayer
  • 6 Assault
  • 8 CTF
  • 8 Strongholds
  • 3 1-Flag
I count:

17 Slayer
9 Strongholds
8 CTF
6 Assault
3 1-Flag
Quote:
The "Slayer" gametype is played on FAR too many maps in the rotation (currently all but two of the maps play Slayer). Suggest removing Slayer from large, symmetrical maps better suited for objective. Dispelled, Dead Heat, Crossbow, Echoes, Traffic Jam, Viking, and Fossil should not have Slayer (this would put total Slayer maps at 9, which is incredibly reasonable). If a map is reduced to a singular gametype due to the removal of Slayer, add Assault/CTF accordingly. Strongholds and 1-Flag will naturally always be on the lower end of the spectrum.
I also think there are too many Slayer modes. I believe Slayer should represent ~30% of the modes in total; meaning, non-slayer based Objectives pooled together should represent ~70% of the playlist. Right now it’d be ~40% Slayer vs ~60% Objective if there were no double or triple weighting of map+mode combos occurring, but it’s pretty clear there’s some. I’d like to know what the percentages are with the weighting.

Oh, and Assault (Neutral Bomb) on Echoes is way too good of a map+mode to be missing.
Quote:
2) When searching matchmaking repeated maps/gametypes are all too common. Even when searching with the same group of players and waiting through the intermission it is still possible to get the same map several times in a row (and even the same gametype). Map/gametype combinations need to vary and back-to-back repeated maps need to be a rare occurrence when searching matchmaking.
You can get the same map back-to-back, despite not resetting the lobby, when there’s multiple modes available for a particular map. There’s nothing to be done about that other than to limit maps to having only one mode which isn’t a good idea in my opinion. I like that there’s at least a couple or a variety of experiences per map.

You can get the same map+mode combo back-to-back, despite not resetting the lobby, when map+mode combos are weighted two, three, or more times. This should be eliminated other than perhaps double weighting the 1-Flag combos since there’s only 3 of them. That could mean getting one of them back-to-back, but it should be fairly rare which is fine in my opinion.
Quote:
3) Pioneer still has no active way to consistently deal with the scorpion tanks (2min respawn) which creates incredibly frustrating gameplay. Strongly suggest adding at least one Plasma Pistol to the map. One team gets active-camo at the start of the game every time due to it's location favoring one side. Camo is too powerful to automatically give to one team as they can take down the enemy tank and put their own team at a huge advantage early. Suggest placing camo in the center between both teams.
I agree with you that Camo is incredibly powerful.
Quote:
5) I strongly disagree with Panic Attack being in the BTB map rotation. It's cramped, spawn-killing is frequent, survivability is low, and the map does not feel like a BTB map should in almost any way. The choke points mid-map are horrendous and create constant "pinches" where it is next to impossible to stay alive for any length of time.
I’ve only played this map once out of roughly 70 matches, but some of what I experienced follows what you described.
I’ve been wondering and I’m sure this has been answered in a different forum, but why is there a hidden MMR in halo
MMR is not a new concept, it's been a part of almost every Halo game.
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB will be the same in Ranked as it is today BUT today's BTB actually expands for 4 minutes instead of 40 seconds, mostly for just the team balance check (note: this doesn't ensure 50/50, it just prevents 90/10 in BTB) It's longer is because we noticed with 40 seconds it's too common for a high-skileld to8 to repeatedly play the same good solo players, driving them away from the game. This way, it can still happen, but less likely to happen over and over again since the solo player will match quicker after the first experience with a different group. After 4 minutes, it's wild west. Also, if you don't search focused, you can immediately match a to8 that has already waited 4+ minutes. This means if you really want to avoid to8s that you have no chance against, you could search Focused and cancel before 4 minutes.
Does this still only apply to To8's? If so, could it be adjusted for teams of seven or even six considering the difference in skill for the party will be minimal?
When BTB becomes ranked, I really think that Eagle Square should be added back into rotation. The map played very well at a competitive level and in my opinion, is one of the most balanced BTB maps in Halo 5.

EDIT: Would also like to see Antifreeze and Basin make a return. Those maps were very balanced and played great at a competitive level.
If you're planning on keeping the same regular br, why not use the extended br? The old deadlock played better than dead heat, if you took out the carbines, added a few other spawn location it would've been great and just left it alone like you left boulevard alone. Deadlock was balanced map in my opinion. Dead heat all across mid, the trench is to deep, I tend to like leveled maps, I hardly use the tunnels cutting through big rock by camo. I love the base design for dead heat though. I dislike there are hardly snipers on the maps now, and reducing the clips that do have them Smh. Also there a way to many slayer variants, I consistently get slayer matches. Hinterlands is over crowded with vehicles, having 2 wraiths on that map create a snowball effect for the opposing team that doesn't control the wraiths, because on hinterlands the wraith flys, you can hop from bridge to ridge, ridge to bridge. Having a team controlling the vehicles on that map creates an unpleasant experience for the opposing team. I suggest removing the incineration and swaping with a laser, or having 1 wraith where the teams have to race to it, because 1 wraith does alot of work. Also swapping out the binary for a sniper, because the binary does little to no damage to vehicles compared to the sniper. Also maybe putting a sentinal beam behind blue tower just like the red tower. Moving on to Pioneer. I liked it at first, but now I see its very unbalanced. Red team gets both power-ups off spawn, or the tank can overlook both camo and overshield. Also I don't believe there is a single plasma pistol to combat the vehicles on that map. Not being able to shoot from the top 2 walkways, is pretty dumb aswell, at least put some opening to shoot from. The phantom side of the map pioneer is pretty much useless no one is fighting on that side of the map. It should be closed off, or bring in blue base, tower closer together to the map if it were even possible because its a huge map with alot of unnecessary spaces. The spawning is ridiculous for pioneer, a red player can spawn with a blue player next to them if blue is outside of the armory. Moving on to fossil, I like it but with the other maps it's unbalanced. If you have both a really good mech/wraith pilot, advancing/covering both sides of the opposing teams' base Its hard to break out of and creates an unpleasant btb experience. I suggest removing the AA wraith and moving the laser to its spawn location. Unable to clamber the purple turret structure to get to the second level is mindbogling, you should be able to but can't. Moving over to crossbow. The mech controls that map. Replacing the overshield with a camo, would make the play better, because now you have something to combat the mechs, and its crucial because you can do alot with a camo than a overshield especially for competitive matches. Moving to viking, I played the other night solo que and matched a team of 8, and I couldn't do anything, not even get passed mid without a vehicle harassing me. I liked the laser where it used to be top mid. At least put a sentinal beam on each teams' side to combat the vehicles. Replace the sword wraith back to the regular one. And that brings me back to the limited ammo for the snipe, you need to put back the extra clip to combat the vehicles! I'm frustrated with whoever decided that it was a good idea to limit the sniper ammo. I enjoy playing H5 btb alot, and I hope you read my post and fix the problems before ranked and in general. I know people who are not happy with the changes and stopped playing because of it. I still have alot to say but I can't think at this moment. Ps I actually play BTB, and have to deal with the outcome.
Naye guy wrote:
If you're planning on keeping the same regular br, why not use the extended br? The old deadlock played better than dead heat, if you took out the carbines, added a few other spawn location it would've been great and just left it alone like you left boulevard alone. Deadlock was balanced map in my opinion. Dead heat all across mid, the trench is to deep, I tend to like leveled maps, I hardly use the tunnels cutting through big rock by camo. I love the base design for dead heat though. I dislike there are hardly snipers on the maps now, and reducing the clips that do have them Smh. Also there a way to many slayer variants, I consistently get slayer matches. Hinterlands is over crowded with vehicles, having 2 wraiths on that map create a snowball effect for the opposing team that doesn't control the wraiths, because on hinterlands the wraith flys, you can hop from bridge to ridge, ridge to bridge. Having a team controlling the vehicles on that map creates an unpleasant experience for the opposing team. I suggest removing the incineration and swaping with a laser, or having 1 wraith where the teams have to race to it, because 1 wraith does alot of work. Also swapping out the binary for a sniper, because the binary does little to no damage to vehicles compared to the sniper. Also maybe putting a sentinal beam behind blue tower just like the red tower. Moving on to Pioneer. I liked it at first, but now I see its very unbalanced. Red team gets both power-ups off spawn, or the tank can overlook both camo and overshield. Also I don't believe there is a single plasma pistol to combat the vehicles on that map. Not being able to shoot from the top 2 walkways, is pretty dumb aswell, at least put some opening to shoot from. The phantom side of the map pioneer is pretty much useless no one is fighting on that side of the map. It should be closed off, or bring in blue base, tower closer together to the map if it were even possible because its a huge map with alot of unnecessary spaces. The spawning is ridiculous for pioneer, a red player can spawn with a blue player next to them if blue is outside of the armory. Moving on to fossil, I like it but with the other maps it's unbalanced. If you have both a really good mech/wraith pilot, advancing/covering both sides of the opposing teams' base Its hard to break out of and creates an unpleasant btb experience. I suggest removing the AA wraith and moving the laser to its spawn location. Unable to clamber the purple turret structure to get to the second level is mindbogling, you should be able to but can't. Moving over to crossbow. The mech controls that map. Replacing the overshield with a camo, would make the play better, because now you have something to combat the mechs, and its crucial because you can do alot with a camo than a overshield especially for competitive matches. Moving to viking, I played the other night solo que and matched a team of 8, and I couldn't do anything, not even get passed mid without a vehicle harassing me. I liked the laser where it used to be top mid. At least put a sentinal beam on each teams' side to combat the vehicles. Replace the sword wraith back to the regular one. And that brings me back to the limited ammo for the snipe, you need to put back the extra clip to combat the vehicles! I'm frustrated with whoever decided that it was a good idea to limit the sniper ammo. I enjoy playing H5 btb alot, and I hope you read my post and fix the problems before ranked and in general. I know people who are not happy with the changes and stopped playing because of it. I still have alot to say but I can't think at this moment. Ps I actually play BTB, and have to deal with the outcome.
Regarding crossbow the mantis are a big part of gaining or losing map control and losing you're teams mantis come with consequences but you have many counters at you're use. railgun, rocket launcher, overshiled, plasma pistols. splinter grenades, hydras, sniper as well as the rocket hogs and ghosts.I personally quite dislike camo in btb as i find it very distasteful and frustrating to be camo boarded. I don't believe adding one is needed due to a number of other sufficient and viable counters for the mantis.
I didn’t really care for each base getting a snip on the testing version of Crossbow. I preferred there being a single snip located in the middle of the map.

I also think the building that has the Railgun should instead get a Fuel Rod Cannon because it’s limited in its effectiveness at range, but useful for pushes into the bases. And the side that gets the Rockets should instead get a Grenade Launcher for combating vehicles.
When it comes to high tier games where people actually know what they're doing controlling power weapons. Posting up protecting/hiding behind the mech it is very challenging to take down solo que, when you have randoms taking the plasma pistol and dying with it. The sniper does barely to little damage to the mech. And the mech will mostly be posted up top mid, preventing anyone from obtaining the railgun which actually does damage to the mech. Having camo on the map would be good because you can actually make plays with it, which change the tide of the game. And the rocket hog and ghost can easily be shut down by noob combo, and team shot. The overshield can be easily countered by a noob combo also melted by a good team shot. The hydra can be easily dodged by the mech just by moving to cover. Crossbow needs camo.
My main feedback would be having a more even map rotation. I've been playing ALOT of Voyager and Traffic Jam. Nothing against those maps but it seriously feel like 50% of my games are on those 2 maps. Where I've only played Pioneer like twice and Viking three times.

Other than a more even map rotation I'm very happy with how the games play! Looking forward to the ranked update!
Naye guy wrote:
When it comes to high tier games where people actually know what they're doing controlling power weapons. Posting up protecting/hiding behind the mech it is very challenging to take down solo que, when you have randoms taking the plasma pistol and dying with it. The sniper does barely to little damage to the mech. And the mech will mostly be posted up top mid, preventing anyone from obtaining the railgun which actually does damage to the mech. Having camo on the map would be good because you can actually make plays with it, which change the tide of the game. And the rocket hog and ghost can easily be shut down by noob combo, and team shot. The overshield can be easily countered by a noob combo also melted by a good team shot. The hydra can be easily dodged by the mech just by moving to cover. Crossbow needs camo.
no camo
I get that most players like to play solo, keep in mind that comes with consequences like not getting power ups, vehicle control by enemy team or not being able to get power weapons dued to random teammates and eventually you get that one player that betrays just cuz they wanted it before you, or even match a full team of 6, 7 or 8. It’s rare to matched up with good randoms that actually play well together and every team out loses momentum during some point of the game. Seen it too many times. Enemy has the lead turns out they lost to a bunch of randoms with a few known players who solo que. I’ve watch on a few streams the testing that was done this past map testing lobby and some of the changes that they made or are thinking about making are good. Rank does feel a bit rushed but what can they do, community ask repeatedly for ranked and a refresh of maps and it’s finally here and seems like everyone’s still disappointed. Can’t please everyone. Shout out to the recent to the forgers, even though you get a lot of criticism, keep up the good work. I do have to agree though on rotation issues, Voyager and Traffic Jam pop up quite frequently and gets kind boring playing the same 2 maps. Idk how the rotation works but it would be cool if we can play all the maps instead of the same 2 for almost an hour straight. Only issue I still see from my POV is the spawns on dead heat slayer. Couple of tweaks here and there and I think it’s good to go. Shout out to the testing lobby who took time out their schedules to provide feedback to the forgers and help test the changes to the maps. Also would like to eagle square back in rotation if at all possible.
KevinKoolx wrote:
My main feedback would be having a more even map rotation. I've been playing ALOT of Voyager and Traffic Jam. Nothing against those maps but it seriously feel like 50% of my games are on those 2 maps. Where I've only played Pioneer like twice and Viking three times.

Other than a more even map rotation I'm very happy with how the games play! Looking forward to the ranked update!
Are you backing out from intermission between matches or staying in? Staying in lowers the changes of getting repeat maps/modes.
no camo
Is there a reason for that? Did it not play well for example if you tested it?
LUKEPOWA wrote:
no camo
Is there a reason for that? Did it not play well for example if you tested it?
It was tested. With the game mode changes and vehicles on the map, it proved to be too good in multiple ways. There are a few tweaks coming for the maps before ranked now that they have been out a few weeks. We never stopped testing.
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