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[Locked] Big Team Skirmish Feedback

OP MM Systems Team

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I also am agreeing that this mode has too little game types and maps. I am not the one to ask about maps as I have zero experience with DLC maps (I've played more of them in CTF than every other mode combined). HOWEVER, here are my opinions

REMOVE:
Regicide (move over to BTIS with a score limit of 1250, not 850) -YES-

ADD:
>2 Ball Ricochet with small goals OR 1 Ball Ricochet with expanded goals
- Maps would have to have identical bases such as Meltdown, Valhalla, and Settler
- Balls either start in the middle or set up towards either base -Not saying it wont work but it would take some tweaking-

>Dominion and Lockdown
- Keep the same maps from the game mode
- Settler could have a great base Bravo where the incineration cannon spawn is
- If possible, allow for a 4th base for Complex, Ragnarok and Settler

>V.I.P.
- Similar scoring mechanics to how Halo 3's worked- NO VIP is just like Regicide what would be the point of removing one to add the same thing ?-
- Any big team map works for this mode


I have 300+ BTB obj games and as fare as balance goes CTF is the best for BTB i would just like to see MORE CTF on new/old maps along side DLC maps.
If KOTH wasn't RANDOM it could work but as is its unbalanced and RANDOM and that's never good for MM.


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We need DLC maps in this playlist.Whats the point of buying the mwhen you never get to play them?

CTF on Settler?
Why don't we have Extraction in this Playlist? It works with 8v8.
I have all the DLC and the simple fact there is 0 DLC maps in BTB OBJ is well stupid - And most of the DLC maps work great for BTB/BTB obj

with a few small tweaks Extraction could work great in BTB
Let's look at 2 different playlists

5v5 Flag and 8v8 Skirmish

Ok both playlists are popular and both play Flag very well.

This is to show you that a 5v5 playlist has more 8v8 maps with CTF then the 8v8 playlist.

List of NONE DLC MAPS that are set up for 8v8 game play.

Meltdown- 5v5 Flag only
Longbow- 8v8 Flag only
Settler- 5v5 Flag only
Rag- both 5v5 and 8v8
Complex- both 5v5 and 8v8
Exile- 5v5 Flag only
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5v5 Flag = 5 maps + DLC maps in playlist
8v8 Flag = 3 maps + 0 DLC maps in playlist

The DLC maps are in the 5v5 playlist but not in the 8v8 playlist even though 90% of the DLC maps are more then big enough to play 8v8 Flag

Final thoughts
Why does a 5v5 playlist offer more 8v8 maps then an 8v8 playlist .

Ways to fix this add all the 8v8 CTF maps to the 8v8 playlist then add the bigger maps from the DLC that would be another 5 maps or so .

Feel free to tell me what u think.
We should rename this thread to

F U N Z B O B thoughs of how to make Big Team Skirmish better after almost 700 Games . JK as I'm probably 80-90% of the posts

Ok so last night playing a party of 8 me and my party had pushed into there base to get the flag but they were camping then all of a sudden 3 of them spawn at MY BASE on the complete other side of the map and grab the flag and hop in my teams hog and drive it in for a cap - my team still won the game

THE POINT IS THE OTHER TEAM SHOULDN'T HAVE EVER SPAWNED IN MY BASE ON MY SIDE OF THE MAP .

Caps lock off
" NO VIP is just like Regicide what would be the point of removing one to add the same thing ?-"

Team Regicide:
- There is no king right at the start
- First strike for the team becomes your king
- A normal kill is +10
- King Kill gets kill plus a bonus and King Assist gets +5

- When the king dies, he is still the king.
- The king can have his own personal loadouts
- The king gets powerups for being alive for a certain amount of time.
- The king can change even if he is still alive

- The objective is to rack up as many points as you can in any way, shape or form

Team VIP:
- There is a VIP selected at random at the start
- The VIP starts with a pistol, frags and overshield. He can pick up any weapon on the map. As for the rest of the team, they can have their personal loadout or have a game default loadout of BR/AR/2Frag.
- There are zero points for a regular kill or any assist
- The ONLY way you can score is by killing the VIP, +1 for the team

- VIP Suicide and Betrayal will have to be -1 for obvious reasons.
- After your VIP has died, the first teammate to die is your new VIP. This can be the same person if he is that bad.
- The ONLY way the VIP can change is if he is killed.

- The objective is to kill the VIP.

TL;DR - Regicide is clearly designed as an action type of Slayer. VIP is clearly an objective game type. This is shown in the scoring systems.
Randomize the playtype selection for the skirmish playlist.

Some more maps and gametypes couldn't hurt either.
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Randomize the playtype selection for the skirmish playlist.

Some more maps and gametypes couldn't hurt either.
Yes to more maps and yes to adding DLC to this playlist.

Randomizing the game types I would prefer not / well not until they Fix or add new ones as all but CTF are unbalanced and not good for 8v8 play .
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Words and stuff.
Regicide is 343s take on VIP

And I believe it was removed from BTB in Halo 3 altogether and never came back in Reach or Halo 4 I would say its unpopular at best.

Assault is wanted much much more then VIP
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Words and stuff.
Regicide is 343s take on VIP

And I believe it was removed from BTB in Halo 3 altogether and never came back in Reach or Halo 4 I would say its unpopular at best.

Assault is wanted much much more then VIP
I think ricochet could work in BTB even if you can throw the ball. Just put the goals into a base like on ragnarok, longbow or meltdown. I mean "INTO" the base so that you have to run the last meters.
Could work. (Could also be terrible)

At least it would be something new.
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I think ricochet could work in BTB even if you can throw the ball. Just put the goals into a base like on ragnarok, longbow or meltdown. I mean "INTO" the base so that you have to run the last meters.
Could work. (Could also be terrible)

At least it would be something new.
O yes it could work great even if they made it so u could only thrown it a very small dissents as they have already done and then made the score area very small and IN THE BASE it would play like assault from past HALO'S well kind of anyway.
I'd like to see Extraction, Ricochet and Dominion added, please do.
Mainly, Add extraction and merge Dominion, it barely gets to a thousand players, Ricochet should be merged too if the playlist fails.
Also, DLC maps.
Add The DLC to Skirmish the maps and game types are set up for 8v8 Objective already or will work with these numbers.

The playlist needs more maps /better game types well more Balanced game types.

Also please fix the Backing out of lobby problem as it happens more then you would even imagine /// or at the very least tell me /us that it's unfixable and we will just have to live with it - then I could stop bugging you guys -- sorry about bugging you

Love you :)

If you could just add some DLC maps and a few more maps with FLAG on them it would be a huge difference.

K
Thx
Bloody hell.

I'm genuinely shocked at the lack of support this has gotten.

Some great ideas for the playlists and gametypes have been written in this thread and we haven't seen anything since it launched.

Big team skirmish is pretty much the sole reason I'm still playing Halo 4, but even though CTF on Valhalla is amazing, there are only so many times it can be fun.

Why don't they just add all the big maps, both on disc and DLC as well as the objective gametypes and give the community what they want!?!

Seriously, this playlist needs more support!
Wow I read the first few posts on this thread and the last few posts. The posts are months apart but yet they both are requesting for more playable maps in the game.

Whats up 343?
For the 3rd time in 3 day the message in game/on screen popped up " please pick a different playlist this playlist population is to low" or something similar I can't remember

I understand it's late at night and MAYBE it's because I'm in a party of 8 or maybe it's because MY CSR is Higher then most , I'm not sure why but this shouldn't be happening.

Maybe forget trying to match similar party size/or true skill and just put people in / although I don't think it prioritize is buy skill or party size as I've been matched vs guys with guest and CSR level 1s a bunch of times.

Or maybe mix BTB slayer and BTB Skirmish into ONE BigTeamBattle playlist - that would use previous Skirmish Ranks and would be based off W/L ONLY ..

?????
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Wow I read the first few posts on this thread and the last few posts. The posts are months apart but yet they both are requesting for more playable maps in the game.

Whats up 343?
The playlist can't last much longer without some kind of update .
-Maps needed
-Game types needed
-DLC needed
-Playlist consolidation needed-MAYBE

Hopefully we see it very soon
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The playlist can't last much longer without some kind of update .
-Maps needed
-Game types needed
-DLC needed
-Playlist consolidation needed-MAYBE
I disagree that the Big Team Skirmish playlist can't last much longer without some updating because it still remains and will likely continue to remain a pretty fun outlet for non-slayer based objectives, but the playlists' inability to retain players for lengths of time on par with the other playlists is indeed a big reason for why it requires some attention by the developers; at least that's what I'd argue is the most prominent issue even if it's based only on what I've personally experienced and perceived. I believe that the limited amount of maps and to a lesser degree the gametype selection options outside of CTF are what presents this higher level of gameplay fatigue and it's why I do wish to see some of the obvious disk maps added (Vortex, Meltdown), plus to have those that are already included in the playlist given additional gametypes (CTF on Exile & Settler?). On top of that then I'd like to see these particular DLC maps included (Outcast, Daybreak, Harvest, Perdition, & Shatter). Also, some alterations to the included gametypes should certainly occur too like moving Regicide to the Big Team Slayer playlist and replacing it with 2-site Extraction and perhaps trading out the KotH territorial gametype for Dominion and Lockdown, which of course would mean that their playlist would have to get consolidated into the Big Team Skirmish playlist. Finally, if the Ricochet playlist ever sees a significant drop in population then consider replacing it with a Team Objective playlist that combines KotH, Oddball, and Ricochet; otherwise, I think the War Games Playlist lineup could hold pat for a decent period of time with this lineup...

01. Big Team Slayer
02. Big Team Skirmish
03. CTF
04. Ricochet (eventually Team Objective?)
05. Team Slayer
06. Snipers
07. SWAT
08. Throwdown
09. Doubles
10. Rumble Pit
11. Grifball
12. Flood
13. Multi-Team
14. Action Sack
15. DLC Playlist

However, the playlist offering that I still think is ideal though is slightly different; see this (link).
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Wow I read the first few posts on this thread and the last few posts. The posts are months apart but yet they both are requesting for more playable maps in the game.

Whats up 343?
The playlist can't last much longer without some kind of update .
-Maps needed
-Game types needed
-DLC needed
-Playlist consolidation needed-MAYBE

Hopefully we see it very soon
Big Team Skirmish is not even a full play list, it only has half the maps compared to BTB-IS. I know there are skirmish maps and gametypes on every other map not in Big Team Skirmish at the moment. Just add them. Make it a full playlist.

ADD MORE MAPS.
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The playlist can't last much longer without some kind of update .
-Maps needed
-Game types needed
-DLC needed
-Playlist consolidation needed-MAYBE
I disagree that the Big Team Skirmish playlist can't last much longer without some updating because it still remains and will likely continue to remain a pretty fun outlet for non-slayer based objectives, but the playlists' inability to retain players for lengths of time on par with the other playlists is indeed a big reason for why it requires some attention by the developers; at least that's what I'd argue is the most prominent issue even if it's based only on what I've personally experienced and perceived. I believe that the limited amount of maps and to a lesser degree the gametype selection options outside of CTF are what presents this higher level of gameplay fatigue and it's why I do wish to see some of the obvious disk maps added (Vortex, Meltdown), plus to have those that are already included in the playlist given additional gametypes (CTF on Exile & Settler?). On top of that then I'd like to see these particular DLC maps included (Outcast, Daybreak, Harvest, Perdition, & Shatter). Also, some alterations to the included gametypes should certainly occur too like moving Regicide to the Big Team Slayer playlist and replacing it with 2-site Extraction and perhaps trading out the KotH territorial gametype for Dominion and Lockdown, which of course would mean that their playlist would have to get consolidated into the Big Team Skirmish playlist.

Yes those would have been good fixes but - Having 2 BTB Playlists has sadly come to an end.

I think its for the best overall -hopefully -


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Wow I read the first few posts on this thread and the last few posts. The posts are months apart but yet they both are requesting for more playable maps in the game.

Whats up 343?
The playlist can't last much longer without some kind of update .
-Maps needed
-Game types needed
-DLC needed
-Playlist consolidation needed-MAYBE

Hopefully we see it very soon
Big Team Skirmish is not even a full play list, it only has half the maps compared to BTB-IS. I know there are skirmish maps and gametypes on every other map not in Big Team Skirmish at the moment. Just add them. Make it a full playlist.

ADD MORE MAPS.

Well in a kind of way they are with this BTB update - hopefully we will see maps and game types from both lists in this playlist.
- this comment is also posted under the Big Team Infinity Slayer feedback thread -

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...combining Big Team Skirmish and Big Team Infinity Slayer into a singular playlist called Big Team Battle.
While I was an advocate for this combined playlist initially I've come to truly appreciate the separate Big Team playlists, because of how they present better opportunities for us (the player base) to play what we want (game-type/variant) when we want. I really didn't think these playlists needed to be consolidated as much as they needed to be updated. Big Team Slayer didn't need much of an update, but I believe it should have been given Regicide as a game-type/variant offering and some additional DLC maps (Outcast, Daybreak, Harvest, and Perdition). Big Team Skirmish on the other hand needed a huge update and in the worst way; by the way, I'm astonished that the suggestions within the feedback forum for that particular playlist never got 343i's attention over the length of time that playlist has existed... I kept expecting an update would be announced for it -- not a consolidation.

Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed by this consolidation because you (343i) never gave the Big Team Skirmish playlist the full opportunity it deserved to flourish. Big Team Skirmish should have received expansion to its map quantity (where was Vortex and Meltdown, plus the bigger DLC maps?), plus many people wanted to see 2-site Extraction offered through this playlist instead of the Regicide game-type/variant which is a slayer-based objective game-type verses a non-slayer-based objective game-type like CTF, KotH, or what Extraction would have brought to the playlist. Also, why wasn't more maps given a variety of the different game-type/variants? I ask this because Exile and Settler seemed like they would have worked quite well with CTF in a 8v8 format. Lastly, if consolidation was of the utmost importance then combining Dominion into the Big Team Skirmish playlist seemed like the most appropriate move considering it was a territorial game-type/variant that fit the bigger team sizes better than KotH, thus replacing KotH with it seemed to make a lot of sense; plus, this would still leave KotH as an appropriate rotational playlist along with Oddball, Multi-Team (I guess) and the others which have been announced thus far (Forge, Race!, & Rocket Race).

Now the bulletin didn't provide much information in regards to what we can expect with this new consolidated playlist such as, will it feature all of the current game-type/variants that exist in each of those playlists now or will the new playlist receive a complete make-over as to the game-type/variants that'll be included as well as maps and maps with specific game-types/variants? Personally, I hope that the suggestions I laid out above are of serious consideration to the MMing Team. Luckly, bs angel has provided some insight into this consolidated playlist when she responded to mlp256, but unfortunately it wasn't what I hoped to hear.

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Will the Castle Map Pack and the map Harvest ever be added to Big Team Battle? These maps are definitely large enough, especially if Complex is.
We're not adding new Big Team content when we merge BTIS and BTS, but we will look at how we can freshen up that playlist when it's due for another update.
So this means that we're going to have 5 game-type/variants to wade through...
Slayer-based game-type/variants: Infinity Slayer, Team Slayer, and Regicide.
Non-slayer-based game-type/variants: CTF and KotH
...along with the same maps for the game-types, plus with no idea as for when to expect an update -- extra disappointing news.

In general I'm not a fan of seeing more than 3 different game-type/variants being offered under a particular playlist due to the difficulty in being able to at least cast a vote for what I want to play when I want to play it but I can see situations where 4 could work alright (after one game-type/variant is selected it's not available for the next lobby's vote options), yet 5 is just too many in my opinion considering there isn't a vote option for new vote options like Halo Reach had. Regardless, the decision to have more than 3 is certainly going to encourage additional pre-game lobby quitting which simply puts added pressure on the JiP system and only intensifies its negative perception to the player base -- this should be avoided as much as possible by 343i due to JiP's necessity.

All in all, since the consolidation has been announced and some additional clarity has been given I can only hope that come the update that no more than 4 game-types/variants will be offered through the playlist and that they'll be either Infinity Slayer, Team Slayer, CTF, and Extraction or Infinity Slayer, Regicide, CTF, and Extraction; plus, to have nearly every large-ish map (DLC & on-disk) receive a game-type/variant for each of the different offerings within the playlist.

In conclusion I understand that you (343i) put a lot of analyzes and effort into determining an appropriate consolidation plan, but was consolidating the playlist offering down to 13 really necessary? I think maintaining the slayer-based and non-slayer-based objectives for the big team sizes was too important to the overall War Game's playlist offering and Matchmaking population health; though, I'm intrigued by the bringing back of at least one rotational playlist that's to provide playlists with singular-ish game-types/variants which proved less popular in the past such as Oddball and King of the Hill, though Dominion and Multi-Team I actually thought maintained a decent population during their time; plus, introduce new game-types that'll likely never maintain a major population for an extended period (Forge, Race, Rocket Race/Hog, and who knows what else -- Regicide?).
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