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Breakout Refresh Feedback Thread

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Virarity wrote:
return it to the original please so all use shotgun
no shotguns... remove them.
put another weapon like the submachine gun again please
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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Breakout needs removed due to how unpopular it is. In all honesty, Extermination seems much more successful and may have a better place in the permanent playlist rotation because of how new the gamemode is and plays. A list of refresher maps for it too would make it feel like an entirely new gametype to play again, which Halo 5 sorely needs until H6.
I understand it, but they could improve the servers to find the fastest game in the breakout mode
Please bring the old settings back
I'd love to see more maps added! It's basically the only game mode I play most of the time.
if new maps would be good because current ones are already boring
The fact that there are people still updating this thread in 2018 gives an accurate representation of how displeased the community was with these changes. The population of the playlist has consistently dropped since this update. How can a dev team not see that the changes they implemented did not appease the majority of the community? How can that same dev team then allow those changes to remain within the game, further harming the playlist, the game and the community as a whole?

Breakout was a niche playlist; akin to doubles or snipers. There are players who main those playlists, playing nothing besides them. For the first 3 months of Halo 5, I was one of those players. Breakout was the single reason I picked up this game to begin with because the arena gameplay did not seem like Halo to me. However, I was very interested in playing a round-based elimination custom gamemode that still retained the "Halo" feeling, as I had attempted to create the same in Reach customs. I picked up my copy of Halo 5 on day one and was instantly sucked into Breakout.

The map design was tight and precise. No pieces or routes went unused. There was no unnecessary clutter across the maps. Sightlines were meticulously designed to allow for long-range combat, but only to those skilled with their magnum. The maps also facilitated the "inch-forward to gain map control" style of Breakout. Furthermore, the breakout community was an amazing part of Halo 5. Randoms would call out and you could easily find players to join a party with to run the playlist. Breakout was fun, intense, unique and thoroughly felt like "Halo".

However, i still had my issues with the gameplay. For instance, I enjoyed the decreased shields, but the 2 shot headshot with the Br and 3 shot headshot with the magnum was too low for me. I was on these forums advocating for an increase of health to the point where the mag was a 4 shot and the br was a 3 shot. Furthermore, the original SMG was a spray-and-pray weapon. I was initially advocating for them to remove the SMG as a whole to increase the skillgap. However, those issues in no way broke the playlist. They still facilitated the intense moments and gameplay that I loved. And when 343 threw new breakout maps into rotation (i.e. highrise), the playlist became even more diverse and unique. It was apparent after a few months that the unique gameplay style in breakout was unlike anything else in Halo 5 or Halo in general.

After year 1, however, the playlist began growing stale. The breakout playlist needed a revamp, I can agree with that statement. While the maps we gained from the community forge playlist were varied, it was the gameplay that needed to change. However, 343's response to this need did not correlate with what the community wanted or what the playlist needed at all.

Shotgun starts - where the SMG was a close range weapon, it still required you to hit shots before getting a kill. Therefore, there was still room for outmaneuvering an opponent, even if they were shooting you in close range with an SMG. The shotgun removes this maneuverability. You don't need to hit all of your shots with a shotgun, just one. This is a cheap, one-shot kill that facilitates two different gameplay styles - camping corners with a shotgun or rushing forward blindly to gain an easy CQC kill. At times, the new breakout plays like slayer with one life per round because there is no punishment for forward rushing.

Full shields - The lack of punishment for rushers is also due to the fact that we have full shields now. The entire point of reduced life in breakout was to prevent from brainless rushing and to encourage players to be more precise with their movements and actions. You couldn't rush in with an SMG because if you missed a few shots, your opponent could easily reverse you with a 3 shot headshot. Furthermore, reduced shields made it possible to clutch. By requiring less shots per kill, one could feasibly pull out a 1v4 if they isolated each battle and landed their shots. It takes twice as long to get a perfect in breakout now, meaning you will get collapsed on before you can kill your opponents. The counterargument I always hear is that "you can clutch with a shotgun now". But this entails pointing and shooting when your enemy gets close. The requirement for positioning and strategy is decreased compared to the SMG/pistol clutches. Another point to make here is that grenades were one-shot kills for a reason. Grenades could be used to prevent certain routes from being taken at the beginning of a round. Full shields removes that layer of strategy.

Radar - This is a no brainer. The maps themselves are designed to be precise, small and easy to navigate. No radar forced players to predict the movements of their enemies. By process of elimination "i.e. There are 2 guys on the nade platform and nobody on the far right, so there must be one player on their br and one in the house", one could easily predict where the enemy was. This also meant that when you were down in numbers in a round, you could see where the enemy thinks you are and use that information to be unpredictable. In a game about positioning and gamesense, having a radar defeats the purpose entirely. You cannot make sneaky flanks, you cannot be unpredictable, you cannot outskill your opponents.

Flag Changes - The community seems to be split on these changes. Personally, I find them infuriating. Onyx level breakout now consists of rushing top mid with shotguns, grabbing the flag and pressuring the enemy back to secure an easy round. No emphasis on map control. I preferred when flag was the secondary strategy to prevent a stalemate. You had to push out of your side of the map, allowing the enemy team to fight you at their base as you pushed the flag. You had to slay the enemy during a flag run. This meant grabbing the flag wasn't an easy win and it prevented the "first one to the flag, wins!" gameplay of breakout now.

Map changes - The maps are now wider, elongated, and cluttered. Comparing old crossfire to new crossfire makes me quite sad. Where the old map was the prime example of cat-and-mouse gameplay we expected from breakout, the new map provides so much cover that each round usually entails getting one pistol kill and then shotgun rushing the team when they are down a man. The maps facilitate brainless, mindless, rushing and contribute to why this playlist feels like slayer with one life per round.

In conclusion, the changes they made significantly hurt the strategic, precise gameplay of breakout. They hurt the skillgap in the playlist. They hurt the satisfaction of winning each game. Where before, you celebrated a comeback because your team got their -Yoink- together and pulled it through, now a comeback is meaningless because each round is a lottery anyway. The gametype is too casual, requires less skill than before and is thoroughly less rewarding. This is why the population has decreased significantly. The changes they made were supposed to entice the breakout players who left after year 1 to return to the game. Instead, they pushed away the current breakout players and killed the playlist. New breakout is thoroughly unoriginal and does not offer an experience you cannot find in slayer, arena or social. The fact that 343 allowed this playlist to exist in this state and did not revert their changes just shows the disconnect between the team and the community.

TLDR: New breakout is unoriginal, casual and unsatisfying.
This breakout game-mode has killed my interest in Halo 5 nearly completely. No reason to play the game if you spawn with a literal power weapon. No skill at all.
Remove radar and replace the shotgun with the SMG.
I never played the original breakout but, from watching gameplay and playing in custom games it's basically cod. So the shields are alright, my only problem is the saw on knell and what would make me even happier is if knell the only breakout map I hate was removed.
Welp, if you haven't read this week's community update I'll keep it short. Breakout 1.0 IS returning, but in a mixbag playlist along with 2.0 and Extermination. It's better than nothing, but I do still hope 1.0 will become its own playlist again one day .
Welp, if you haven't read this week's community update I'll keep it short. Breakout 1.0 IS returning, but in a mixbag playlist along with 2.0 and Extermination. It's better than nothing, but I do still hope 1.0 will become its own playlist again one day .
Yeah, but 1.0 no longer has the same flag cap method. It was changed to make you pull it to your own base. Better than nothing I guess
Quote:
Kicking things off with what might be the biggest change coming to the Ranked matchmaking experience, the current Breakout playlist will be replaced with the brand-new Elimination playlist. This new list will feature three different elimination-based game modes including Breakout, Breakout 2.0, and Extermination. After hearing feedback that each of these should be ranked offerings, we’ve created a way for them all to exist within one competitive playlist. While Breakout 2.0 and Extermination will remain untouched, we’ve changed flag scoring on the original Breakout from a “push the flag into the other team’s base” to a “bring the flag home to score” win-condition, so that both Breakout modes within the playlist will end by eliminating the enemy team or bringing the neutral flag back to your base.
For the curious, here is the breakdown of maps and modes in the Elimination playlist:
  • Breakout – Altitude, Canal, Crossfire, Highrise, Trench, Trident
  • Breakout 2.0 – Knell, Altitude 2.0, Crossfire 2.0, Gambol 2.0, Trench 2.0, Trident 2.0
  • Extermination – Firewall, Face to Face, Dreamscape, Alpha-Niner, Harbinger, Remains, Atlas, Dethrone, Abyss, Yggdrasil, Augury, Helheim
We’ve heard your feedback and are excited for you to give this playlist a shot next week on May 1 with the start of the Summer 2018 Season. Along with the launch of Elimination, there will be a few other changes coming to the Ranked playlists, which you can read about a little further down.
So, we've got Breakout back, which is HUGE. However, it's mixed in with less desirable gametypes and, worse yet, they have messed with a winning recipe by changing the flag capture method. It almost seems that 343i doesn't actually understand this gametype? I'm not sure what the logic is here. I could go into detail, but I've done so on this tread more than once.

Don't get me wrong - I do appreciate this huge step in the right direction. But ultimately, I think this may be too little too late. I'm not sure they've won me back until I can play unadulterated Breakout with all the maps present before the "refresh". And an apology to the community for the radio silence wouldn't hurt . . .
Breakout was a niche playlist; akin to doubles or snipers. There are players who main those playlists, playing nothing besides them. For the first 3 months of Halo 5, I was one of those players. Breakout was the single reason I picked up this game to begin with because the arena gameplay did not seem like Halo to me. However, I was very interested in playing a round-based elimination custom gamemode that still retained the "Halo" feeling, as I had attempted to create the same in Reach customs. I picked up my copy of Halo 5 on day one and was instantly sucked into Breakout.

The map design was tight and precise. No pieces or routes went unused. There was no unnecessary clutter across the maps. Sightlines were meticulously designed to allow for long-range combat, but only to those skilled with their magnum. The maps also facilitated the "inch-forward to gain map control" style of Breakout. Furthermore, the breakout community was an amazing part of Halo 5. Randoms would call out and you could easily find players to join a party with to run the playlist. Breakout was fun, intense, unique and thoroughly felt like "Halo".

However, i still had my issues with the gameplay. For instance, I enjoyed the decreased shields, but the 2 shot headshot with the Br and 3 shot headshot with the magnum was too low for me. I was on these forums advocating for an increase of health to the point where the mag was a 4 shot and the br was a 3 shot. Furthermore, the original SMG was a spray-and-pray weapon. I was initially advocating for them to remove the SMG as a whole to increase the skillgap. However, those issues in no way broke the playlist. They still facilitated the intense moments and gameplay that I loved. And when 343 threw new breakout maps into rotation (i.e. highrise), the playlist became even more diverse and unique. It was apparent after a few months that the unique gameplay style in breakout was unlike anything else in Halo 5 or Halo in general.

After year 1, however, the playlist began growing stale. The breakout playlist needed a revamp, I can agree with that statement. While the maps we gained from the community forge playlist were varied, it was the gameplay that needed to change. However, 343's response to this need did not correlate with what the community wanted or what the playlist needed at all.

Shotgun starts - where the SMG was a close range weapon, it still required you to hit shots before getting a kill. Therefore, there was still room for outmaneuvering an opponent, even if they were shooting you in close range with an SMG. The shotgun removes this maneuverability. You don't need to hit all of your shots with a shotgun, just one. This is a cheap, one-shot kill that facilitates two different gameplay styles - camping corners with a shotgun or rushing forward blindly to gain an easy CQC kill. At times, the new breakout plays like slayer with one life per round because there is no punishment for forward rushing.

Full shields - The lack of punishment for rushers is also due to the fact that we have full shields now. The entire point of reduced life in breakout was to prevent from brainless rushing and to encourage players to be more precise with their movements and actions. You couldn't rush in with an SMG because if you missed a few shots, your opponent could easily reverse you with a 3 shot headshot. Furthermore, reduced shields made it possible to clutch. By requiring less shots per kill, one could feasibly pull out a 1v4 if they isolated each battle and landed their shots. It takes twice as long to get a perfect in breakout now, meaning you will get collapsed on before you can kill your opponents. The counterargument I always hear is that "you can clutch with a shotgun now". But this entails pointing and shooting when your enemy gets close. The requirement for positioning and strategy is decreased compared to the SMG/pistol clutches. Another point to make here is that grenades were one-shot kills for a reason. Grenades could be used to prevent certain routes from being taken at the beginning of a round. Full shields removes that layer of strategy.

Radar - This is a no brainer. The maps themselves are designed to be precise, small and easy to navigate. No radar forced players to predict the movements of their enemies. By process of elimination "i.e. There are 2 guys on the nade platform and nobody on the far right, so there must be one player on their br and one in the house", one could easily predict where the enemy was. This also meant that when you were down in numbers in a round, you could see where the enemy thinks you are and use that information to be unpredictable. In a game about positioning and gamesense, having a radar defeats the purpose entirely. You cannot make sneaky flanks, you cannot be unpredictable, you cannot outskill your opponents.

Flag Changes - The community seems to be split on these changes. Personally, I find them infuriating. Onyx level breakout now consists of rushing top mid with shotguns, grabbing the flag and pressuring the enemy back to secure an easy round. No emphasis on map control. I preferred when flag was the secondary strategy to prevent a stalemate. You had to push out of your side of the map, allowing the enemy team to fight you at their base as you pushed the flag. You had to slay the enemy during a flag run. This meant grabbing the flag wasn't an easy win and it prevented the "first one to the flag, wins!" gameplay of breakout now.

Map changes - The maps are now wider, elongated, and cluttered. Comparing old crossfire to new crossfire makes me quite sad. Where the old map was the prime example of cat-and-mouse gameplay we expected from breakout, the new map provides so much cover that each round usually entails getting one pistol kill and then shotgun rushing the team when they are down a man. The maps facilitate brainless, mindless, rushing and contribute to why this playlist feels like slayer with one life per round.

In conclusion, the changes they made significantly hurt the strategic, precise gameplay of breakout. They hurt the skillgap in the playlist. They hurt the satisfaction of winning each game. Where before, you celebrated a comeback because your team got their -Yoink- together and pulled it through, now a comeback is meaningless because each round is a lottery anyway. The gametype is too casual, requires less skill than before and is thoroughly less rewarding. This is why the population has decreased significantly. The changes they made were supposed to entice the breakout players who left after year 1 to return to the game. Instead, they pushed away the current breakout players and killed the playlist. New breakout is thoroughly unoriginal and does not offer an experience you cannot find in slayer, arena or social. The fact that 343 allowed this playlist to exist in this state and did not revert their changes just shows the disconnect between the team and the community.

TLDR: New breakout is unoriginal, casual and unsatisfying.
I completely agree with these points. Very well written and thoughtful. I've made a similar post about a year ago and it seems that my own opinion has failed on deaf ears. Thank you for this post.
While I don't particularly enjoy Extermination and I wish they would have removed shotguns in Breakout V2, this update is better than nothing and I look forward to the new variety and increased player count.
Only took a year and a half. Perhaps I'll have to dust off the disk.
l38151337 wrote:
Quote:
So, we've got Breakout back, which is HUGE. However, it's mixed in with less desirable gametypes and, worse yet, they have messed with a winning recipe by changing the flag capture method. It almost seems that 343i doesn't actually understand this gametype? I'm not sure what the logic is here. I could go into detail, but I've done so on this tread more than once.

Don't get me wrong - I do appreciate this huge step in the right direction. But ultimately, I think this may be too little too late. I'm not sure they've won me back until I can play unadulterated Breakout with all the maps present before the "refresh". And an apology to the community for the radio silence wouldn't hurt . . .
Bold - in your opinion, but overall numbers clearly show Extermination is more popular then breakout 1.0 and 2.0. Extermination is what Breakout should of been.

Welp, if you haven't read this week's community update I'll keep it short. Breakout 1.0 IS returning, but in a mixbag playlist along with 2.0 and Extermination. It's better than nothing, but I do still hope 1.0 will become its own playlist again one day .
Breakout 1.0 will most likely never have it's own playlist again. It wasn't very popular, hence 343I tried to revamp it (version 2.0) to make it more popular. It's very debatable if 2.0 is more popular then 1.0 though. Extermination has been more popular then both versions of Breakout hands down though. I think having all 3 together is the only solution, as Extermination will bring in other players because it has more fans then either breakout so maybe with all three of them together it will have a decent player base.
It's very simple.. just return the entire breakout playlist to how it was originally. It was a great experience because it was crazy fun and i met tons of friends i still continue playing the other playlists with till this day. Not to mention great variety for our limited h5 online matchmaking. If you think there isn't a community for breakout, well the forums obviously show you are wrong. Also, if you don't think there shouldn't be a breakout playlist then just don't play it or acknowledge it. On Tuesday, after the update, if anyone wants to play if you're a onyx level or higher message me
"d ENVY p".
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