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Breakout Refresh Feedback Thread

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raed928 wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
So, we've got Breakout back, which is HUGE. However, it's mixed in with less desirable gametypes and, worse yet, they have messed with a winning recipe by changing the flag capture method. It almost seems that 343i doesn't actually understand this gametype? I'm not sure what the logic is here. I could go into detail, but I've done so on this tread more than once.

Don't get me wrong - I do appreciate this huge step in the right direction. But ultimately, I think this may be too little too late. I'm not sure they've won me back until I can play unadulterated Breakout with all the maps present before the "refresh". And an apology to the community for the radio silence wouldn't hurt . . .
Bold - in your opinion...
EDIT My mistake by saying population numbers this entire time. When I said that, I was referring too the playlist popularity that ZaedynFel posts in the matchmaking in feedback threads. Sorry to all for that. Thanks eLantern for bringing that to my attention.

Also to be clear raed928 I wasn't ever trying to attack or make you feel dumb or anything. If you felt this way, I'm really sorry, was never my intention. I realized I might of come off that way after I thought about it for a bit. I just get really into it when debating per say and such lol and I'm not very good with words either at times.
Yeah I was only pointing out your argument needed clarification. While I overwhelmingly disagree with your logic and your arguments here, I'm not gonna make a post because I want to keep this civil and you are entitled to your own opinion. You raise some good points, but the essence of my point was that the low population size did not correlate with the reception of that gametype with the community. Breakout was changed due to a perceived negative reception of the gametype. I was arguing that we needed a different metric to gauge the reception of the gametype. That was all. My apologies if I came off as hostile. I appreciate your viewpoint and I enjoyed reading your argument.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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ZagReAt0Ne wrote:
😄 Stop acting like pansies. 🦋🐇🌸💕

BREAKOUT was never about RESPAWNING. How is it that there was so much effort in the creation of the gametype..The deep implementation of the word "Breakout" into game descriptions... the obvious ascension to BREAKOUT 2.0

and now it has been dismanteled? Put alongside a spawn kill FRENZY game? Considered the same thing ?

We never had problems match making in BREAKOUT 2.0 - BREAKOUT 2.0 was PERFECT the way it was. Nobody I know complained that there were only 7 maps... or that games were unfair. Nobody wanted it to change at all.

We were all excited about the update originally. Knew it meant more new players. It meant easier matches easier ranking up. Well...that's it!! ..LOL but the Extermination maps are soo BAD. They should have emulated and streamlined the maps with the Blue Arena Genre from breakout. The update is hairbrained.

Additionally:
1.0 should be full shields. Games are extremely fast.. like 7 minutes fast.
Breakout 2.0 is very. very far from perfect (see: this thread).

And Breakout should under no circumstance be full shields. "Fast" is the intended pace of Breakout.
l38151337 wrote:
ZagReAt0Ne wrote:
😄 Stop acting like pansies. 🦋🐇🌸💕

BREAKOUT was never about RESPAWNING. How is it that there was so much effort in the creation of the gametype..The deep implementation of the word "Breakout" into game descriptions... the obvious ascension to BREAKOUT 2.0

and now it has been dismanteled? Put alongside a spawn kill FRENZY game? Considered the same thing ?

We never had problems match making in BREAKOUT 2.0 - BREAKOUT 2.0 was PERFECT the way it was. Nobody I know complained that there were only 7 maps... or that games were unfair. Nobody wanted it to change at all.

We were all excited about the update originally. Knew it meant more new players. It meant easier matches easier ranking up. Well...that's it!! ..LOL but the Extermination maps are soo BAD. They should have emulated and streamlined the maps with the Blue Arena Genre from breakout. The update is hairbrained.

Additionally:
1.0 should be full shields. Games are extremely fast.. like 7 minutes fast.
Breakout 2.0 is very. very far from perfect (see: this thread).

And Breakout should under no circumstance be full shields. "Fast" is the intended pace of Breakout.
No it wasn't. That's not true.

It's a straight sweep. Extermination takes AGES to complete. Not compatible.
ZagReAt0Ne wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
ZagReAt0Ne wrote:
😄 Stop acting like pansies. 🦋🐇🌸💕

BREAKOUT was never about RESPAWNING. How is it that there was so much effort in the creation of the gametype..The deep implementation of the word "Breakout" into game descriptions... the obvious ascension to BREAKOUT 2.0

and now it has been dismanteled? Put alongside a spawn kill FRENZY game? Considered the same thing ?

We never had problems match making in BREAKOUT 2.0 - BREAKOUT 2.0 was PERFECT the way it was. Nobody I know complained that there were only 7 maps... or that games were unfair. Nobody wanted it to change at all.

We were all excited about the update originally. Knew it meant more new players. It meant easier matches easier ranking up. Well...that's it!! ..LOL but the Extermination maps are soo BAD. They should have emulated and streamlined the maps with the Blue Arena Genre from breakout. The update is hairbrained.

Additionally:
1.0 should be full shields. Games are extremely fast.. like 7 minutes fast.
Breakout 2.0 is very. very far from perfect (see: this thread).

And Breakout should under no circumstance be full shields. "Fast" is the intended pace of Breakout.
No it wasn't. That's not true.

It's a straight sweep. Extermination takes AGES to complete. Not compatible.
I can't speak to Extermination yet, as I have yet to play it, but I do agree it should be separate from Breakout.

But on Breakout, I would venture to guess the current pace of "original" Breakout probably is off and/or not fun. But this is because of the flag capture method. You should always have to push the flag though enemy territory, never pull back through the part of the map you control. This mistake creates huge issues, pacing and map utilization being the first two that come to mind. As I said, Breakout should always be fast paced - but not a rush.
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
eLantern wrote:
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
I'm not familiar with Extraction. Mind giving me an overview?
l38151337 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
I'm not familiar with Extraction. Mind giving me an overview?
Here's a video detailing a little information about the mode when it was initially introduced in Halo 4.

Here's a video showing the 1-Site version of the mode when it was introduced into Halo 4's Throwdown playlist which playlist-wise relates best to Halo 5's HCS playlist.

Here's a video of the custom community's effort to re-create the mode as best as possible in Halo 5.

So in my mind the 1-Site Extraction concept works perfectly as the neutral objective in Breakout because it operates on the same principle as Neutral Flag when placed in the middle of the map, but it fosters a much more interesting tactic and mind-game between teams than the simple flag retrieval. Both teams are given equal incentive to initiate or convert the extraction process, but since doing so also makes a person temporarily vulnerable; therefore, there's an increased awareness and strategy to ensuring it's safe to do so before mindlessly enacting that particular objective. Once the extraction process is active teams are then tasked with either defending it until its extracted (for the win) or converting it while remaining alive and putting the pressure onto the other team instead. When paired with the Elimination game-type this all becomes so much more intense given people only have 1 life to act with.
eLantern wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
I'm not familiar with Extraction. Mind giving me an overview?
Here's a video detailing a little information about the mode when it was initially introduced in Halo 4.

Here's a video showing the 1-Site version of the mode when it was introduced into Halo 4's Throwdown playlist which playlist-wise relates best to Halo 5's HCS playlist.

Here's a video of the custom community's effort to re-create the mode as best as possible in Halo 5.

So in my mind the 1-Site Extraction concept works perfectly as the neutral objective in Breakout because it operates on the same principle as Neutral Flag when placed in the middle of the map, but it fosters a much more interesting tactic and mind-game between teams than the simple flag retrieval. Both teams are given equal incentive to initiate or convert the extraction process, but since doing so also makes a person temporarily vulnerable; therefore, there's an increased awareness and strategy to ensuring it's safe to do so before mindlessly enacting that particular objective. Once the extraction process is active teams are then tasked with either defending it until its extracted (for the win) or converting it while remaining alive and putting the pressure onto the other team instead. When paired with the Elimination game-type this all becomes so much more intense given people only have 1 life to act with.
Seems like King of the Hill with a twist. Could definitely be cool as a separate Elimination gametype, though I don't think this could be a replacement for Breakout's neutral flag.

Get to Forgin'!
eLantern wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
I'm not familiar with Extraction. Mind giving me an overview?
Here's a video detailing a little information about the mode when it was initially introduced in Halo 4.

Here's a video showing the 1-Site version of the mode when it was introduced into Halo 4's Throwdown playlist which playlist-wise relates best to Halo 5's HCS playlist.

Here's a video of the custom community's effort to re-create the mode as best as possible in Halo 5.

So in my mind the 1-Site Extraction concept works perfectly as the neutral objective in Breakout because it operates on the same principle as Neutral Flag when placed in the middle of the map, but it fosters a much more interesting tactic and mind-game between teams than the simple flag retrieval. Both teams are given equal incentive to initiate or convert the extraction process, but since doing so also makes a person temporarily vulnerable; therefore, there's an increased awareness and strategy to ensuring it's safe to do so before mindlessly enacting that particular objective. Once the extraction process is active teams are then tasked with either defending it until its extracted (for the win) or converting it while remaining alive and putting the pressure onto the other team instead. When paired with the Elimination game-type this all becomes so much more intense given people only have 1 life to act with.
Dude yes. This is the argument I have made from Day one. I think they wanted to avoid extraction due to obvious similarities to CS:GO, SnD in COD, Rainbow Six (etc.). But in practice, extraction still feels Halo-ey. Imagine 2 site extraction on Altitude. You push to the enemy teams base, extract, and then defend the point. If this was the gametype, it could even justify adding full shields to prolong encounters during the defense phase (after extraction). Those settings on the old breakout maps with full/increased shields is what the gametype should've been.
raed928 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Extraction would have been an ideal secondary neutral objective for Breakout instead of neutral flag. If they bring back Breakout as a matchmaking mode in Halo 6 I hope they also give us Extraction so that they can be paired together.
I'm not familiar with Extraction. Mind giving me an overview?
Here's a video detailing a little information about the mode when it was initially introduced in Halo 4.

Here's a video showing the 1-Site version of the mode when it was introduced into Halo 4's Throwdown playlist which playlist-wise relates best to Halo 5's HCS playlist.

Here's a video of the custom community's effort to re-create the mode as best as possible in Halo 5.

So in my mind the 1-Site Extraction concept works perfectly as the neutral objective in Breakout because it operates on the same principle as Neutral Flag when placed in the middle of the map, but it fosters a much more interesting tactic and mind-game between teams than the simple flag retrieval. Both teams are given equal incentive to initiate or convert the extraction process, but since doing so also makes a person temporarily vulnerable; therefore, there's an increased awareness and strategy to ensuring it's safe to do so before mindlessly enacting that particular objective. Once the extraction process is active teams are then tasked with either defending it until its extracted (for the win) or converting it while remaining alive and putting the pressure onto the other team instead. When paired with the Elimination game-type this all becomes so much more intense given people only have 1 life to act with.
Dude yes. This is the argument I have made from Day one. I think they wanted to avoid extraction due to obvious similarities to CS:GO, SnD in COD, Rainbow Six (etc.). But in practice, extraction still feels Halo-ey. Imagine 2 site extraction on Altitude. You push to the enemy teams base, extract, and then defend the point. If this was the gametype, it could even justify adding full shields to prolong encounters during the defense phase (after extraction). Those settings on the old breakout maps with full/increased shields is what the gametype should've been.
I still strongly disagree with the "should've been" idea, but damn would I like to play this (along side the Original Breakout)!
Fix the damn flag in 1.0. There was no reason to change it in the first place. If you outnumber the oppenant, you're almost always gonna cap it because you rush back to your side of the map. The flag used to be a second option, not a liability you're forced to play around
Mordo3777 wrote:
Fix the damn flag in 1.0. There was no reason to change it in the first place. If you outnumber the oppenant, you're almost always gonna cap it because you rush back to your side of the map. The flag used to be a second option, not a liability you're forced to play around
This.

Seriously. Please fix this. It really wrecks the pace of the game and utilization of the maps.
I don't mind breakout. Not my favourite but it's fun from time to time. However it feels like slayer with lives because no one really goes for the flag. I'm just kind of hoping for different weapons maybe? Scattered around the map. And maybe a gunfighter magnum to start. And only the magnum.
I wanna play breakout 2.0 at all times
I don't mind breakout. Not my favourite but it's fun from time to time. However it feels like slayer with lives because no one really goes for the flag. I'm just kind of hoping for different weapons maybe? Scattered around the map. And maybe a gunfighter magnum to start. And only the magnum.
That's sort of by design. The flag 1) Prevents camping/ hiding and 2) Adds an extra element to balance focus. Breakout is an Elimination gametype first and foremost (therefore, eliminating the enemy is generally the primary objective), but it keeps you on your toes with the threat of a flag capture if you get overzealous in your hunt.

On weapons, there are different weapons throughout the map (grenades, BRs, DMRs, Shotguns, Scattershots, Hydras, etc.). These weapons are purposely not placed in a way which would make them safely accessible. Everything in Breakout is designed to be balanced. Every weapon offered gives you a unique advantage, and this advantage is counter-balanced by its specific drawbacks and the risk of acquisition. Especially in the case of "power weapons" like the Hydra or Shotgun, which can completely turn a round, well, around in the right hands. There is (in every case that I can immediately think of) no more than one of any of these placed in a given map, requiring teams to fight over this advantage. And, as in the Halos of yore, it's up to you to know your sight-lines and weapon spawns. The HUD won't hold your hand.

Each "lane" in a map offers a distinct advantage to whomever wins that lane. Maybe it's a weapon. Maybe it's high ground. Maybe it's the flag. Maybe it's an open route to the other lanes. Either way, you spawn in, push your chosen lane to obtain the advantage that lane offers, and, should you prevail, use that advantage to end the round in your favor. Maybe your team decides to stack a lane. Maybe you want to ignore a lane. It's all about skill, strategy, and positioning. And, boy, did I enjoy it.

Sorry for the wall-of-text ramble in response to a shorter comment, I just really liked Breakout. It boiled away everything unnecessary and left only the elements necessary to provide a solid experience and balance of skill and strategy, which few games do anymore.
Is it me or is ranked extermination killing the popularity of the mode? I noticed more people quit it mid-game more than the breakout modes.
Is it me or is ranked extermination killing the popularity of the mode? I noticed more people quit it mid-game more than the breakout modes.
I notice it too. Almost nobody likes Breakout 2.0, so I just say remove Breakout 2.0 from matchmaking and make Extermination and Breakout 1.0 separate playlists.
Mordo3777 wrote:
Is it me or is ranked extermination killing the popularity of the mode? I noticed more people quit it mid-game more than the breakout modes.
I notice it too. Almost nobody likes Breakout 2.0, so I just say remove Breakout 2.0 from matchmaking and make Extermination and Breakout 1.0 separate playlists.
I would love to see Breakout come back as a ranked playlist, and have 2.0 and Extermination as one of those rotating weekly playlists.

As much as I really don't like 2.0, I wouldn't ask them to remove it, as that's how we lost Breakout in the first place. But it certainly isn't the competitive, skill-meets-strategy type of playlist that Breakout offers, and as such I don't think it warrants treatment as anything other than the casual party mode it is. If they wanted to let it be its own permanent playlist, fine. But it's so different than Breakout in everything other than map aesthetic that it really should be separate.

And maybe it's just me, but I have always hated having multiple gametypes in a playlist. I want to play what I want to play.
ZagReAt0Ne wrote:
Yes, I have played 1.0. I enjoy Knock Out, ONE LIFE Non-Respawn very much. - In that way I enjoy 1.0. If 1.0 was given its own playlist I would play it more than slayer. But if given an option between 2.0. 2.0 would always be my favorite.

I think the SMG is a comical starting weapon. It attracts more attention than damage in my opinion. Being shot with one does tense you up, however if you stay calm and shoot true with your magnum- no competition. switching to SMG to finish someone feels lucky if somone else hasn't killed you.

After a 1 on 1 confrontation it is uncommon to get away without damage.- Once you're out numbered and pinned down- no health recovery. No one goes in for a melee they just throw grenades.

The 1.0 maps by definition are crude and imperfect. example Altitude/Trident it's like Shooting Fish in a Barrel. Too many grenades. Not enough ammunition.

I do like the way Highrise looks and I do like Gambol and that map with the Camo with the trench is good. Allows for a more even spread of gunfire.

But still I think the hydra being a one hit kill is too powerful. -Since damage is still inflicted behind objects.

If you are outnumbered in 1.0 and, you have been shot two times...you have to hide.. this is very common and it's not fair. Especially when you have to shoot the enemy team three times each perfect? that's really hard. It is soo easy to tap a player with a bullet accross the map. No accuracy needed.

After playing 1.0 I became very impressed with the BREAKOUT 2.0 Maps. There was obviouly a lot of thought/time involved in this. I cannot think of a BREAKOUT 2.0 map that I get tired of playing. I do think it is strange that you cannot clamber on some ledges like for example across from the Saw on Knell. It's funny when people get stuck there jumping up and down. haha

Ultimately I think BREAKOUT 2.0 is much more entertaining and fun to watch. A decent player does have odds to win outnumbered if the opposing team is not communicating.
I enjoy 2.0 but you cannot deny that the shotgun is horribly inconsistent at different ranges and most encounters seem up to luck. I understand that you need a 1 shot weapon like this for when you are outnumbered but I think that underscores the problem of 2.0 and why 1.0 is much better. You have a much better chance of winning 1v4 in 1.0 than 2.0.
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