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Breakout Refresh Feedback Thread

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I WOULD PREFER NO RADAR - The maps are small, and the radar just allows and encourages camping. Either the shotgun needs to go or the radar does.

STARTING WEAPONS - Should be a pistol with ONE shotgun on each side to pick up.

THE NEW ELIMINATION MAPS - They are great, but I swear, someone quits 1 out of 3 games in Breakout/Elimination. At least in flag maps, if its a 3 vs 4 you have a chance. Elimination maps if they get down, they only need to wait to have another person spawn. PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT LOSING A MATCH, THEN LOSING RANK AFTER A TEAMMATE QUITS. All maps are a disadvantage if a person quits, but these Elimination maps are THE WORST disadvantage for an uneven matchup.

AS FOR THE FLAGS - These matches are ruined whenever someone makes no effort to play the (shooting) game, and all they try to do is rush the flag/ "flagrush", to win the point. Its almost always the worst player in the game, (the fewest kills). They run straight to the flag then just try to run it back without ever trying to interact with the other team. Some of these Breakout maps are better than others at preventing this. These maps are small, and I see the purpose of the flag as motivation so people don't just try to hide the rest of the three minutes out if they get disadvantaged. TO ME, This is a shooting game, and trying to shoot it out should not only be priority, but be required. Too many times, I see the same people who do nothing but try to flag rush the entire match, and then do it on multiple maps in a row. There are other styles games, such as BIG TEAM BATTLE 8 vs 8 (where you respawn when you die), where the ONLY REQUIREMENT to win is to capture the flag three times. I think these ELIMINATION maps are a smaller map, single life style game, requires a different more technical and skilled approach. I hear others who dislike this in the game chat, so I know I'm not the only one. It comes across as one person wasting the game for 7 other people, because they are just trying to win, and not trying to play. ---------------- I SEE THIS AS AN EASY FIX - I couldn't care which end the flag goes to, (because the way I understand the purpose of this match style, that is not supposed to be the priority). Make the flag so nobody can pick it up until at least one person is killed or an initial time limit before it can be picked up (30 seconds or a minute, even 15 seconds would require people to try to shoot). I am not against rushing, it should be required, I am against winning without ever shooting because someone just tries to win, but doesn't try to play.

Personally, I'd like to see it so that special weapons (Rocket launchers, plasma cannons, hydra launcher, sniper rifles), also not be able to be picked up for 30 seconds to a minute.

ALSO, to the posters on here. It may look like there is a majority against the change, but this is a very small % of people who play. Also, the general rule is 90%/10%. If 20 people do the same thing; 10 people like it, and 10 people hate it; 9 out of 10 people will tell you they hate it, while 1 out of 10 will take the time to tell you they like something.
should literally just be 1.0 and 2.0 with a voting system.
they should change it back to breakout 2.0
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Elimination in Halo 5 is simply the title that's been given to a mixed-bag playlist that combines two versions of Breakout with Extermination. The reason the playlist is titled "elimination" is because each of these three modes either directly require one team to eliminate the other to achieve victory or it's the primary objective toward achieving victory. Claiming that "elimination" is where you do NOT re-spawn once you die (until the next round) is simply your wishful interpretation.

With that said, would the mixed-bag Elimination playlist be better served existing within the social environment instead of the ranked environment? I honestly have thought so for a long-time, but that's just me.

I don't know where you get off claiming Josh Menke's ranking system (Halo 5's TS2 system and CSRs) is based purely off of RNG? Perhaps you should take the time to try fully understanding it and reason out why it works the way it does before mindlessly hating on it.
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eLantern wrote:
Elimination in Halo 5 is simply the title that's been given to a mixed-bag playlist that combines two versions of Breakout with Extermination. The reason the playlist is titled "elimination" is because each of these three modes either directly require one team to eliminate the other to achieve victory or it's the primary objective toward achieving victory. Claiming that "elimination" is where you do NOT re-spawn once you die (until the next round) is simply your wishful interpretation.

With that said, would the mixed-bag Elimination playlist be better served existing within the social environment instead of the ranked environment? I honestly have thought so for a long-time, but that's just me.

I don't know where you get off claiming Josh Menke's ranking system (Halo 5's TS2 system) is based purely off of RNG? Perhaps you should take the time to try fully understanding it and reason out why it works the way it does before mindlessly hating on it.
Not RNG based.

Regarding CSR:
  • CSR adjustments are purely based on where your pre-match MMR sits in comparison to your pre-match CSR; therefore, CSR adjustments will always lag by at least one game.
  • Members on a winning team will always gain CSR. Currently, the amounts are either +1 or +15.
  • Members on a losing team will always lose CSR. Currently, the amounts are either -1 or -15.
  • The updated CSR system is designed to converge to MMR while severely limiting any potential inflation/deflation so that it can reliably reflect a player's TrueSkill. Again, the way it does this is that the 1 or 15 adjustment is solely based on your pre-match MMR in relation to your pre-match CSR.
  • If your pre-match MMR is greater than your pre-match CSR: you will gain +15 CSR for a WIN or you'll lose -1 CSR for a LOSS.
  • If your pre-match MMR is less than your pre-match CSR: you will gain +1 CSR for a WIN or you'll lose -15 CSR for a LOSS.
  • Once converged your CSR should remain within 2 tiers of your MMR despite random streaks or luck that can cause some periodic divergence. This is based on a win/loss ratio that hovers around 50% and exists within a likely 70:30 split. Ratios that are greater or lesser could potentially cause periodic divergences that might temporarily exceed 2-tiers, but it's very difficult to see runaway inflation/deflation.
  • The +/- 1 CSR number in particular, instead of a larger number, helps to significantly restrict CSR inflation/deflation issues relative to a player's MMR because it requires a 94% or greater win or loss ratio to allow and maintain runaway inflation/deflation.
Regarding MMR:
  • The TS2 system, which relates to MMR, is designed to ensure match outcome via wins and losses remains the crux of the skill system, but it also appropriately accounts for individual influences toward those outcomes too.
  • A winning team will always net a positive MMR. The amount is a combination of factors related toward match expectations.
  • A losing team will always net a negative MMR. The amount is a combination of factors related toward match expectations.
  • Individual MMR adjustments operate on a zero sum of the team's net MMR adjustment. Adjustments remain relative to team member KPM & DPM expected ranges; including how those performances (relative to expectations) stack up between one-another (ie team members) because it's a zero sum adjustment.
CSR, the visual indicator we see of our skill, is specifically designed to be less volatile than MMR so that players aren’t confused by any potential dramatic shifts that could occur from outlier matches. CSR helps reign in rank progress and gives a more controlled state to the visual reflection of our skill which in-turn also supports its other functions and uses. While CSR is basically a visual indicator of your hidden MMR it's also designed to play some additional roles that MMR can’t provide. CSRs, paired with seasonal resets, essentially act as a form of incentive to re-invest time into playlists in order to re-earn a visual indicator of your skill. It also helps lessen the sensation of a so-called “rank-lock” because a typical seasonal reset will place your CSR (once ranked-in) below your MMR. This means players have to play additional matches (post placement) in order to re-converge their CSR and MMR. This process of having to re-earn your skill is also important because it ensures players continue to prove to the system that they deserve their skill ratings (both CSR & MMR) since time away (not playing) does have a deteriorating effect on your skill. Approximately 25 matches (or so) within a particular playlist, after a new season starts, most typical non-Onyx level players should see their CSR and MMR converged. Going forward they should remain within 2-tiers of one-another.

PS: My rank has nothing to do with my capability to comprehend the ranking system just as yours clearly doesn't grant you some magical ability to automatically understand it.
Does anyone still play breakout now? I'm still working towards that magnum opus and can't find any matches
I would like to leave a question for anyone who loves breakout here. I am considering creating a custom breakout gametype with custom weapon placements and starting weapons. I want to start with each individual map and take feedback from anyone who wants to give it and try to create a "community breakout" mode that meshes the principles of breakout 1/2. Before, I do this though, I just want to know if anyone would be interested in helping me work on that. We could even use this forum to work on it together.

EDIT:
I guess the reason why I'm doing this is because I care more about playing a good breakout gametype and allowing the concept to reach an actualization point that has not been met by 343 yet. Regardless whether you are for 1.0, 2.0 or elimination, I think everyone on this specific thread can agree that Breakout is special. I want to do the concept itself justice using the community's feedback. As long as someone is willing to play it.
eLantern wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Elimination in Halo 5 is simply the title that's been given to a mixed-bag playlist that combines two versions of Breakout with Extermination. The reason the playlist is titled "elimination" is because each of these three modes either directly require one team to eliminate the other to achieve victory or it's the primary objective toward achieving victory. Claiming that "elimination" is where you do NOT re-spawn once you die (until the next round) is simply your wishful interpretation.

With that said, would the mixed-bag Elimination playlist be better served existing within the social environment instead of the ranked environment? I honestly have thought so for a long-time, but that's just me.

I don't know where you get off claiming Josh Menke's ranking system (Halo 5's TS2 system) is based purely off of RNG? Perhaps you should take the time to try fully understanding it and reason out why it works the way it does before mindlessly hating on it.
Not RNG based.

Regarding CSR:
  • CSR adjustments are purely based on where your pre-match MMR sits in comparison to your pre-match CSR; therefore, CSR adjustments will always lag by at least one game.
  • Members on a winning team will always gain CSR. Currently, the amounts are either +1 or +15.
  • Members on a losing team will always lose CSR. Currently, the amounts are either -1 or -15.
  • The updated CSR system is designed to converge to MMR while severely limiting any potential inflation/deflation so that it can reliably reflect a player's TrueSkill. Again, the way it does this is that the 1 or 15 adjustment is solely based on your pre-match MMR in relation to your pre-match CSR.
  • If your pre-match MMR is greater than your pre-match CSR: you will gain +15 CSR for a WIN or you'll lose -1 CSR for a LOSS.
  • If your pre-match MMR is less than your pre-match CSR: you will gain +1 CSR for a WIN or you'll lose -15 CSR for a LOSS.
  • Once converged your CSR should remain within 2 tiers of your MMR despite random streaks or luck that can cause some periodic divergence. This is based on a win/loss ratio that hovers around 50% and exists within a likely 70:30 split. Ratios that are greater or lesser could potentially cause periodic divergences that might temporarily exceed 2-tiers, but it's very difficult to see runaway inflation/deflation.
  • The +/- 1 CSR number in particular, instead of a larger number, helps to significantly restrict CSR inflation/deflation issues relative to a player's MMR because it requires a 94% or greater win or loss ratio to allow and maintain runaway inflation/deflation.
Regarding MMR:
  • The TS2 system, which relates to MMR, is designed to ensure match outcome via wins and losses remains the crux of the skill system, but it also appropriately accounts for individual influences toward those outcomes too.
  • A winning team will always net a positive MMR. The amount is a combination of factors related toward match expectations.
  • A losing team will always net a negative MMR. The amount is a combination of factors related toward match expectations.
  • Individual MMR adjustments operate on a zero sum of the team's net MMR adjustment. Adjustments remain relative to team member KPM & DPM expected ranges; including how those performances (relative to expectations) stack up between one-another (ie team members) because it's a zero sum adjustment.
CSR, the visual indicator we see of our skill, is specifically designed to be less volatile than MMR so that players aren’t confused by any potential dramatic shifts that could occur from outlier matches. CSR helps reign in rank progress and gives a more controlled state to the visual reflection of our skill which in-turn also supports its other functions and uses. While CSR is basically a visual indicator of your hidden MMR it's also designed to play some additional roles that MMR can’t provide. CSRs, paired with seasonal resets, essentially act as a form of incentive to re-invest time into playlists in order to re-earn a visual indicator of your skill. It also helps lessen the sensation of a so-called “rank-lock” because a typical seasonal reset will place your CSR (once ranked-in) below your MMR. This means players have to play additional matches (post placement) in order to re-converge their CSR and MMR. This process of having to re-earn your skill is also important because it ensures players continue to prove to the system that they deserve their skill ratings (both CSR & MMR) since time away (not playing) does have a deteriorating effect on your skill. Approximately 25 matches (or so) within a particular playlist, after a new season starts, most typical non-Onyx level players should see their CSR and MMR converged. Going forward they should remain within 2-tiers of one-another.

PS: My rank has nothing to do with my capability to comprehend the ranking system just as yours clearly doesn't grant you some magical ability to automatically understand it.
This. Especially your last statement. The low Onyx kids whose mmr isn't restricting them from climbing higher don't understand that the ranking system is meaningless. My friend and I ranked doubles at Platinum 5 on our mains. We won 8/10 games. One of those wins was against a Champ 20 something. The next night, we created brand new smurfs and won 6/10 games, but placed high diamond. We hit Onyx shortly thereafter. People don't understand just how broken the system is. Last season, I ranked Diamond 5 in Slayer. 12 wins later, I was still Diamond 5. it rewarded me with marginal increases to CSR per win. But my first loss and it dropped my CSR considerably. This is the increasingly frustrating "MMR cap" that has been implemented recently and it is seriously killing this game. Also, go read Zaedynfel's posts. He is one of the people on the 343 team that worked on the ranking system and he repeatedly explains this away with "Yeah you're just not good enough." It's obvious the system has problems, but they refuse to admit it.
l38151337 wrote:
Mordo3777 wrote:
Is it me or is ranked extermination killing the popularity of the mode? I noticed more people quit it mid-game more than the breakout modes.
I notice it too. Almost nobody likes Breakout 2.0, so I just say remove Breakout 2.0 from matchmaking and make Extermination and Breakout 1.0 separate playlists.
I would love to see Breakout come back as a ranked playlist, and have 2.0 and Extermination as one of those rotating weekly playlists.

As much as I really don't like 2.0, I wouldn't ask them to remove it, as that's how we lost Breakout in the first place. But it certainly isn't the competitive, skill-meets-strategy type of playlist that Breakout offers, and as such I don't think it warrants treatment as anything other than the casual party mode it is. If they wanted to let it be its own permanent playlist, fine. But it's so different than Breakout in everything other than map aesthetic that it really should be separate.

And maybe it's just me, but I have always hated having multiple gametypes in a playlist. I want to play what I want to play.
I agree 2.0 and Extermination both need to be rotating. Breakout 1.0 needs to be its own playlist and bring Gambol back. That was my favorite map from 1.0 I would much prefer to play it then Highrise or Canal.
Take out breakout 2.0! That’s all I wanna see.
Payola wrote:
Take out breakout 2.0! That’s all I wanna see.
When breakout 2.0 was a playlist, people played it and you could find games so some people must have enjoyed it. Also looking at the Playlist Popularity elimination is less popular then breakout 2.0. Many of the breakout community stopped playing when 1.0 was added and elimination. If breakout 2.0 is removed another chunk the community will be gone and will be more dead. The playlist can also be very competitive any here's why:
Shotgun campers:Yes, there are but once you have played the game more enough you know exactly where they camp and take corners wide so they can't catch you out. Not an issue
Maps:The maps are also great once you have played enough, there are different paths and routes you can take depending if you want to sit back and damage with your magnum or push up and attack. Breakout 2.0 is also very competitive because of the full shields if you match a good team nobody will push with the shotgun as it would be too risky so everyone just pistols and it's like a 1-2 minute stand of. Great fun. I believe the players that don't like the playlist haven't played enough and don't want to learn breakout 2.0 but if it is removed its unfair for people who have spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding it. Also, many pros and members of the community were asking 343 to add extermination and breakout 1 back then hardly played it. This same thing is happening again with removing breakout 2.0 they request it then hardly play it.
Boomy EU wrote:
... there are different paths and routes you can take depending if you want to sit back and damage with your magnum ...
Until the enemy rushes the flag.

Boomy EU wrote:
I believe the players that don't like the playlist haven't played enough and don't want to learn breakout 2.0 but if it is removed its unfair for people who have spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding it.
What about all of the players that spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding Original Breakout?

Boomy EU wrote:
Also, many pros and members of the community were asking 343 to add extermination and breakout 1 back then hardly played it. This same thing is happening again with removing breakout 2.0 they request it then hardly play it.
There are three reasons I immediately think of for why someone who wants Original Breakout back isn't playing Elimination.
  1. The playlist is weighted to be mostly 2.0. You'll only get Breakout, the game you actually want to play, about 25% of the time.
  2. It's still not Original Breakout until the flag capture method returns to push instead of pull.
  3. It's been so long that a lot of people have just moved on. I, for one, couldn't even play an FPS with a controller at this point.
Again, as I suggested above, I think 2.0 and Extermination should just have their own social playlist (rotating or otherwise, whatever). I don't even know if it's for me at this point. Maybe I'd come back to finish my Forge work? But 343i's probably given up on it too much to actually include new community maps in the rotation, so that's probably a waste of time. So I don't think this is for me, it just seems like the right thing to do for the community.
l38151337 wrote:
Boomy EU wrote:
... there are different paths and routes you can take depending if you want to sit back and damage with your magnum ...
Until the enemy rushes the flag.

Boomy EU wrote:
I believe the players that don't like the playlist haven't played enough and don't want to learn breakout 2.0 but if it is removed its unfair for people who have spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding it.
What about all of the players that spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding Original Breakout?

Boomy EU wrote:
Also, many pros and members of the community were asking 343 to add extermination and breakout 1 back then hardly played it. This same thing is happening again with removing breakout 2.0 they request it then hardly play it.
There are three reasons I immediately think of for why someone who wants Original Breakout back isn't playing Elimination.
  1. The playlist is weighted to be mostly 2.0. You'll only get Breakout, the game you actually want to play, about 25% of the time.
  2. It's still not Original Breakout until the flag capture method returns to push instead of pull.
  3. It's been so long that a lot of people have just moved on. I, for one, couldn't even play an FPS with a controller at this point.
Again, as I suggested above, I think 2.0 and Extermination should just have their own social playlist (rotating or otherwise, whatever). I don't even know if it's for me at this point. Maybe I'd come back to finish my Forge work? But 343i's probably given up on it too much to actually include new community maps in the rotation, so that's probably a waste of time. So I don't think this is for me, it just seems like the right thing to do for the community.
1) That is a tactical method that can be easily stopped with teamwork.
2) I never said remove breakout 1.0 just don't remove 2.0
3) Something needs to change like removing elim from ranked to keep it more consistent. But 343 won't do that..
Boomy EU wrote:
l38151337 wrote:
Boomy EU wrote:
... there are different paths and routes you can take depending if you want to sit back and damage with your magnum ...
Until the enemy rushes the flag.

Boomy EU wrote:
I believe the players that don't like the playlist haven't played enough and don't want to learn breakout 2.0 but if it is removed its unfair for people who have spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding it.
What about all of the players that spent a huge amount of time enjoying and grinding Original Breakout?

Boomy EU wrote:
Also, many pros and members of the community were asking 343 to add extermination and breakout 1 back then hardly played it. This same thing is happening again with removing breakout 2.0 they request it then hardly play it.
There are three reasons I immediately think of for why someone who wants Original Breakout back isn't playing Elimination.
  1. The playlist is weighted to be mostly 2.0. You'll only get Breakout, the game you actually want to play, about 25% of the time.
  2. It's still not Original Breakout until the flag capture method returns to push instead of pull.
  3. It's been so long that a lot of people have just moved on. I, for one, couldn't even play an FPS with a controller at this point.
Again, as I suggested above, I think 2.0 and Extermination should just have their own social playlist (rotating or otherwise, whatever). I don't even know if it's for me at this point. Maybe I'd come back to finish my Forge work? But 343i's probably given up on it too much to actually include new community maps in the rotation, so that's probably a waste of time. So I don't think this is for me, it just seems like the right thing to do for the community.
1) That is a tactical method that can be easily stopped with teamwork.
2) I never said remove breakout 1.0 just don't remove 2.0
3) Something needs to change like removing elim from ranked to keep it more consistent. But 343 won't do that..
Yeah, it's real strange that it's a ranked playlist.
I don’t know if anyone at all also feels this way but please let me know if you do, I seriously love the original breakout. My friends I play halo with as well. It was such a unique experience different from anything else in past halo games and it was so much fun to play. It was so competitive and there was nothing like clutching a 1v4 when all odds are against you and having your teammates yelling in your ear with a million callouts. I still remember the first day I got on halo and the message of the day announced the “new and improved” breakout 2.0.... I was extremely skeptical at first, as I should have been, and to no surprise 343 found a way to ruin my favorite part of the game at the time and break my heart. All the new maps and the changes to the game type itself and the heavy rotation of the 2.0 version over the 1.0 just ruined the game mode for me. At the time I believe halo 5 was still lacking some of the major things that were released in future updates so I completely dropped off of the game and moved on. I returned to halo 5 a couple months ago and obviously with all the updates out and the game actually being complete it’s amazing and i’ve gotten a million times better than I used to be and i’ve competed in multiple lan tourneys since then with my buddies and I have just fell back in love with the game. And there’s just a chunk of it all missing for me and obviously now they changed the whole name of the breakout playlist to “elimination” and added another new game type called “extermination” that takes up literally all of the rotation, i’ve played 11 matches now and I haven’t gotten a single game of breakout 1.0 or even breakout 2.0. I understand this new game mode has its own cult following but Im just craving breakout 1.0 I need it so bad i’ve started up multiple breakout 1.0 matches with original breakout maps in custom games and gotten full matches going a couple times and it’s just so so so good. I know i’m not the only person that feels this way about breakout I’ve talked to multiple people about it who feel the same way. I’m begging you 343 if any of you see this message if any of you even read these please consider it as like a temporary social playlist and revive it or something i’m sure it wouldn’t cause any sort of issue for you guys. Please 343.TLDR: Miss original Breakout 1.0 not happy with rotation of the “elimination” replacement, begging for some people who agree to respond so 343 can see this message.
Could we get breakout 1.0 back it says it’s in the extermination playlist but it’s not really breakout 1.0 because in breakout 1.0 you had to take the flag to the enemy base witch was awsome because it was a lot more difficult to do. You had an amazing challenging game type and I feel it’s been really dumbed down.
Bring back the old breakout playlist. Having 3 different game modes in one competitive playlist is kind of ridiculous
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Sorry man, but that is just an idiotic reponds. Seriously think about what you just said. How does someone rank affect there knowledge of the system???

Some of the greatest coaches ever in X sport (take your pic on which one) never even played that sport before. Does that mean they don't understand it?? LOL Your rank has nothing to do with understanding the system.
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