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CSR INCREASE WHEN BEATING A TEAM OF 3 IN Slayer

OP MRGEE3K

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Can anyone touch on the increases and decreases when you win or lose to a team that doesn’t have a full team. I noticed in matches where I win against a team where somone quit, I will only go up 2% in my CSR. Is this something new? I think it’s crazy that you could play a whole match, Somone on the other team drops right before the match, and only get a 2% increase.
I think I've been experiencing something similar in Team Arena. I'm not 100% sure if I would have received more CSR for the win had the entire team stayed in the game, but I want to say 3 or 4 times recently opponents have quit and I've received the minimum, if any, CSR.

If you tag ZaedynFel in the most recent MM feedback and update thread (linked below), he might be able to shed some light on it. There may be a post addressing your question in the thread.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%E2%80%93-november-5/8a0727f1-8591-43f7-855f-32a28f17e669/posts
Thank you for your response.
It's pro-rated by how long the players are in the match. If they leave a the last second, you still get near full credit.
This is not acceptable. It’s not acceptable that if you go up 17-6 let’s say and the other team has a coward that says screw this my team gets penalized.

I understand protecting the team with a quitter but it can’t be a zero sum game. It’s a tax on 4 person teams because we will never have the benefit of a 3 on 4 win, we will only have the penalty of a 4 on 3 win and the devastation of a 3 on 4 loss.

And large maps like Refuge, having 3 players is an advantage.

Honestly my friends and and I have discussed quitting halo 5 for good because of this specific issue. It’s the number one issue in slayer and has to be fixed immediately in my opinion.
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
I also have to add regarding your comment about ranking being about skill....you know that is not the case.

If that were true, then you could be the best player on a losing team and still rank up.

This game is about winning and losing, period, end of story. There's no faster way to rank up or down, your individual statistics have very little to do with it.
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's pro-rated by how long the players are in the match. If they leave a the last second, you still get near full credit.
If I remember correctly, "outlier" matches are also weighted differently, correct?

So theoretically, these two independent adjustments could incidentally occur more frequently together, such that it subjectively appears that the "time played" adjustment is more heavily weighted than it actually is?

For example, if a blue-team Onyx who averages 15 kills against Diamonds ends up doing really well and getting 30 kills instead, whereas red team has an Onyx who is goofing around at first and only gets 3 kills before going afk part-way through the match, then ultimately booted for inactivity a couple minutes before the ending -- the blue team Onyx might think that the "time played" adjustment was unduely unfair, when in fact there was a secondary cause for the lack of CSR payout, and the two factors just happen to occur together more often than apart... I hope I explained that well enough.

cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
That's an interesting consideration about negative selection, but I don't think that's the main reason why teams of 4 are harder to rank up in because I've found that it really depends on the ranks of your team. With Platinum & low Diamonds, every game is a breeze, we consistently win & I can start to push towards champion... but with a team of all High diamond & Onyx, we lose almost every game by just a few kills and it's very difficult to rank up. I'm not sure exactly what causes this, but I think that quitters are a very small consideration beside it.
cicconmr00 wrote:
It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4 because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games.
Winning 3v4 will likely lead to MMR increases because once you lose a player the match odds flipped noticeably against you; therefore, the system did not likely assume you'd win the match. Of course, this is also very dependent on when the match flipped from being 4v4 to 3v4. Overcoming expectations forces the system to readjust its understanding of your skill assessment which is why winning 3v4 matches will often times lead to CSR increases. Though, due to the 1-match lag you may not notice it until the following match -- if you manage to win again.
Quote:
If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection if someone on the other team quit. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.
A team of 4 vs a team of 3 possess an obvious numerical advantage; therefore, it makes all the sense in the world that the team of 4 should be expected to prevail as the victors in most situations.
Quote:
I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.
I'm very glad you ended this with "...in my opinion" because I don't believe the system is being stupid with the way it acknowledges and accounts for the change in match odds once someone quits.

Now, I'm starting to wonder if you're referencing this frustration due to playing in a mode in which it's much easier to deal with a lost player such as SWAT. Is that where you're experiencing your frustration?
Quote:
Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.
Quitting has ALWAYS affected everyone within the match; however, the skill system is now much better at accounting for the impact a quitter causes.
Quote:
Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
It's not really a case of "protecting" the remaining players on a team that had a quitter as it's more about properly accounting for the skill-based impact of uneven and unbalanced teams.
cicconmr00 wrote:
I also have to add regarding your comment about ranking being about skill....you know that is not the case.

If that were true, then you could be the best player on a losing team and still rank up.
There's a difference between CSR, team MMR, and individual MMR.

CSR can only go up on a win and down on a loss.

Team MMR can only go up on a win and down on a loss.

Individual MMR can go up or down regardless to match outcome; though, it's a zero sum byproduct of the Team MMR.
Quote:
This game is about winning and losing, period, end of story. There's no faster way to rank up or down, your individual statistics have very little to do with it.
Match outcome is the primary factor, but individual performance matters too.
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's pro-rated by how long the players are in the match. If they leave a the last second, you still get near full credit.
Thanks for the information. That is really interesting and a great policy IMHO.
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
Do you have a link to the calculations you are referring to that show how MMR can eventually impact CSR?

I'm not doing this to complain about my rank, I'm doing this because when me and my friends play and someone on the other team quits we feel it is essentially a waste of 10 minutes of our time. I don't know how or why it seems to be different for us, but none of us see a CSR change at all winning 4 on 3 matches and of course the penalty of losing 3 on 4 is huge. When we play ten games and 5 of those games mean absolutely nothing to our CSR it's really frustrating.

I guess people will never agree with me, but if we have a person drop off the opposing team on a map like Refuge when we are losing by 10 kills and the other team has all he power weapons I don't see how us having 4 people provides any advantage at that point. I've had scenarios happen like this multiple times.
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
Do you have a link to the calculations you are referring to that show how MMR can eventually impact CSR?

I'm not doing this to complain about my rank, I'm doing this because when me and my friends play and someone on the other team quits we feel it is essentially a waste of 10 minutes of our time. I don't know how or why it seems to be different for us, but none of us see a CSR change at all winning 4 on 3 matches and of course the penalty of losing 3 on 4 is huge. When we play ten games and 5 of those games mean absolutely nothing to our CSR it's really frustrating.

I guess people will never agree with me, but if we have a person drop off the opposing team on a map like Refuge when we are losing by 10 kills and the other team has all he power weapons I don't see how us having 4 people provides any advantage at that point. I've had scenarios happen like this multiple times.
If you link a specific match where this happened, I can look at the breakdown.
ZaedynFel wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
Do you have a link to the calculations you are referring to that show how MMR can eventually impact CSR?

I'm not doing this to complain about my rank, I'm doing this because when me and my friends play and someone on the other team quits we feel it is essentially a waste of 10 minutes of our time. I don't know how or why it seems to be different for us, but none of us see a CSR change at all winning 4 on 3 matches and of course the penalty of losing 3 on 4 is huge. When we play ten games and 5 of those games mean absolutely nothing to our CSR it's really frustrating.

I guess people will never agree with me, but if we have a person drop off the opposing team on a map like Refuge when we are losing by 10 kills and the other team has all he power weapons I don't see how us having 4 people provides any advantage at that point. I've had scenarios happen like this multiple times.
If you link a specific match where this happened, I can look at the breakdown.
Thank you for taking a look at this, tonight has been a complete nightmare for me and I'm going to ask you to look at two matches in particular.

At a high level though: it's nights like tonight that make me never want to play this game again and I never felt this way before the quitting rules. I've played 9 games up to when I'm writing this note starting with a ranked game at Eden and ending with a ranked game at White Cell. In only 4/9 (<50%) have I had 4v4, that means my rank can only go down in more than 50% of instances (except one instance when I had 3 on 4, and won luckily). One of these games was 4 on 2--just miserable. I feel like at Plat 2 I have to be in the meat of available players at peak hours, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Aside from my general complaint that too many people are quitting, and thus creating rules around quitting that penalize people who don't quit is detrimental, I'd like you to look at some 3v3 issues I had tonight when a person on the other team quit first.

- My second game (on Coliseum) and my last game before I wrote this message (on White Cell) I had the following happen:

A player on the other team quit, making it 3 on 4. About 1-2 minutes later a player on my team quit making it 3v3. I lost both matches, and while I played average in the first loss I believe I was a top player in the loss at White Cell. In both instances, even though the game was majority 3v3, my CSR PLUMMETED.

This is so unenjoyable....I really appreciate you reaching out but you have to understand how demoralizing this is the minute you see a person quit you now know you're wasting 10 minutes of your life--as a single, all that can happen at that point is your CSR can either plummet or not move.

I always report quitters but nothing gets better...I am really starting to think we wouldn't have to worry so much about quitters if CSR was not based on Win/Loss....I dropped from a Plat 2 to Gold 6 tonight and I had some crappy games but almost all of that drop was due to those 2 3v3 losses and my inability to rank up when 4v3 or 4v2 and I had good stats (See: Stasis). Further, even if you play well on 3v4 its meaningless unless you win.

I understand MMR is suppose to converge to CSR or what have you, but that's in a perfect world where games are fair. When >50% of your games are not 4v4, its tough to agree with the statements others have made.

Thank you so much for looking into this, I really want to get back to enjoying this game again....I know CSR win/loss isn't going to change so maybe we can find something more fair here, certainly on the 3v3 (since it seems to reward the team who has a quitter first) and hopefully someday for even win your win a 4v3 match by improving the proration (I think in that Stasis match we had already had 25 kills and were up 9-10 kills before the first player quit, I don't believe my CSR moved at all after that match)
cicconmr00 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
Do you have a link to the calculations you are referring to that show how MMR can eventually impact CSR?

I'm not doing this to complain about my rank, I'm doing this because when me and my friends play and someone on the other team quits we feel it is essentially a waste of 10 minutes of our time. I don't know how or why it seems to be different for us, but none of us see a CSR change at all winning 4 on 3 matches and of course the penalty of losing 3 on 4 is huge. When we play ten games and 5 of those games mean absolutely nothing to our CSR it's really frustrating.

I guess people will never agree with me, but if we have a person drop off the opposing team on a map like Refuge when we are losing by 10 kills and the other team has all he power weapons I don't see how us having 4 people provides any advantage at that point. I've had scenarios happen like this multiple times.
If you link a specific match where this happened, I can look at the breakdown.
Thank you for taking a look at this, tonight has been a complete nightmare for me and I'm going to ask you to look at two matches in particular.

At a high level though: it's nights like tonight that make me never want to play this game again and I never felt this way before the quitting rules. I've played 9 games up to when I'm writing this note starting with a ranked game at Eden and ending with a ranked game at White Cell. In only 4/9 (<50%) have I had 4v4, that means my rank can only go down in more than 50% of instances (except one instance when I had 3 on 4, and won luckily). One of these games was 4 on 2--just miserable. I feel like at Plat 2 I have to be in the meat of available players at peak hours, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Aside from my general complaint that too many people are quitting, and thus creating rules around quitting that penalize people who don't quit is detrimental, I'd like you to look at some 3v3 issues I had tonight when a person on the other team quit first.

- My second game (on Coliseum) and my last game before I wrote this message (on White Cell) I had the following happen:

A player on the other team quit, making it 3 on 4. About 1-2 minutes later a player on my team quit making it 3v3. I lost both matches, and while I played average in the first loss I believe I was a top player in the loss at White Cell. In both instances, even though the game was majority 3v3, my CSR PLUMMETED.

This is so unenjoyable....I really appreciate you reaching out but you have to understand how demoralizing this is the minute you see a person quit you now know you're wasting 10 minutes of your life--as a single, all that can happen at that point is your CSR can either plummet or not move.

I always report quitters but nothing gets better...I am really starting to think we wouldn't have to worry so much about quitters if CSR was not based on Win/Loss....I dropped from a Plat 2 to Gold 6 tonight and I had some crappy games but almost all of that drop was due to those 2 3v3 losses and my inability to rank up when 4v3 or 4v2 and I had good stats (See: Stasis). Further, even if you play well on 3v4 its meaningless unless you win.

I understand MMR is suppose to converge to CSR or what have you, but that's in a perfect world where games are fair. When >50% of your games are not 4v4, its tough to agree with the statements others have made.

Thank you so much for looking into this, I really want to get back to enjoying this game again....I know CSR win/loss isn't going to change so maybe we can find something more fair here, certainly on the 3v3 (since it seems to reward the team who has a quitter first) and hopefully someday for even win your win a 4v3 match by improving the proration (I think in that Stasis match we had already had 25 kills and were up 9-10 kills before the first player quit, I don't believe my CSR moved at all after that match
Can you link the matches? CSR convergence has not been negatively affected by quitters. It overall stays pretty close despite them.
ZaedynFel wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
QX wrote:
cicconmr00 wrote:
the amount of people that quit in slayer and arena make this unsustainable. Every other game I play someone quits. Every game I’ve played tonight 1/5/2019 someone in some team has quit.

Ive been unable to move rank anywhere but down. It’s so frustrating and has totally ruined this game for me.

I cant be the only one. I don’t remember this before Winter 2019
Unfortunately you are on the lower end of the skill range in MM. That is going to lead to more quitters in my experience compared to higher skilled lobbies. The only recommendation I would have is try to find 3 other players to team with so at least your side won't be quitting out. Also if you aren't ranking up for wins anymore that means to have hit your actual "skill" within the playlist and the only way to rank up is consistently show that you perform at a higher than gold 6 level.

The ranking system is meant to be a skill based one rather than a progression ladder like it was last year. This can cause some frustration but creates a better rank integrity.
I have to argue with one thing you said here and that is "find a team of 4 and play with them so at least no one quits on you"

It is a DISADVANTAGE to have a team of 4, because the only way to really rank up now is to win 3 on 4 games. If you have a team of 4 you will ALWAYS and ONLY be subject to negative selection of someone on the other team quitting. A team of four is now at a DISADVANTAGE because of this system.

I'm only pointing this out to show how stupid this system is....like I've said before it is actually a tax on four person teams in my opinion.

Quitting used to only affect the person who quit, now it affects everyone in the game.

Let's protect teams that have a quitter, but it doesn't need to be a 0 sum game.
There is so much misinformation here.

If someone quits on the other team the ranking system takes that into account and adjusts the expectations for each player. So no playing in a TO4 does not give you a disadvantage. Especially against how much of an advantage you gain when playing with 3 other players and communicating.

Also the ranking system does base itself on skill. Unfortunately you don't understand how the MMR system works so you didn't know that even from a loss your MMR can go up. Yes CSR only goes up for a win and down for a loss. However, over time CSR ALWAYS trends towards your MMR. Meaning that if you somehow always get trash cans on your team and hard carry every match your CSR will up over time because your MMR will most likely be going up.

Again you are blaming the system for your own lack of skill and inability to rank up past the correct rank for yourself.
Do you have a link to the calculations you are referring to that show how MMR can eventually impact CSR?

I'm not doing this to complain about my rank, I'm doing this because when me and my friends play and someone on the other team quits we feel it is essentially a waste of 10 minutes of our time. I don't know how or why it seems to be different for us, but none of us see a CSR change at all winning 4 on 3 matches and of course the penalty of losing 3 on 4 is huge. When we play ten games and 5 of those games mean absolutely nothing to our CSR it's really frustrating.

I guess people will never agree with me, but if we have a person drop off the opposing team on a map like Refuge when we are losing by 10 kills and the other team has all he power weapons I don't see how us having 4 people provides any advantage at that point. I've had scenarios happen like this multiple times.
If you link a specific match where this happened, I can look at the breakdown.
Thank you for taking a look at this, tonight has been a complete nightmare for me and I'm going to ask you to look at two matches in particular.

At a high level though: it's nights like tonight that make me never want to play this game again and I never felt this way before the quitting rules. I've played 9 games up to when I'm writing this note starting with a ranked game at Eden and ending with a ranked game at White Cell. In only 4/9 (<50%) have I had 4v4, that means my rank can only go down in more than 50% of instances (except one instance when I had 3 on 4, and won luckily). One of these games was 4 on 2--just miserable. I feel like at Plat 2 I have to be in the meat of available players at peak hours, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Aside from my general complaint that too many people are quitting, and thus creating rules around quitting that penalize people who don't quit is detrimental, I'd like you to look at some 3v3 issues I had tonight when a person on the other team quit first.

- My second game (on Coliseum) and my last game before I wrote this message (on White Cell) I had the following happen:

A player on the other team quit, making it 3 on 4. About 1-2 minutes later a player on my team quit making it 3v3. I lost both matches, and while I played average in the first loss I believe I was a top player in the loss at White Cell. In both instances, even though the game was majority 3v3, my CSR PLUMMETED.

This is so unenjoyable....I really appreciate you reaching out but you have to understand how demoralizing this is the minute you see a person quit you now know you're wasting 10 minutes of your life--as a single, all that can happen at that point is your CSR can either plummet or not move.

I always report quitters but nothing gets better...I am really starting to think we wouldn't have to worry so much about quitters if CSR was not based on Win/Loss....I dropped from a Plat 2 to Gold 6 tonight and I had some crappy games but almost all of that drop was due to those 2 3v3 losses and my inability to rank up when 4v3 or 4v2 and I had good stats (See: Stasis). Further, even if you play well on 3v4 its meaningless unless you win.

I understand MMR is suppose to converge to CSR or what have you, but that's in a perfect world where games are fair. When >50% of your games are not 4v4, its tough to agree with the statements others have made.

Thank you so much for looking into this, I really want to get back to enjoying this game again....I know CSR win/loss isn't going to change so maybe we can find something more fair here, certainly on the 3v3 (since it seems to reward the team who has a quitter first) and hopefully someday for even win your win a 4v3 match by improving the proration (I think in that Stasis match we had already had 25 kills and were up 9-10 kills before the first player quit, I don't believe my CSR moved at all after that match
Can you link the matches? CSR convergence has not been negatively affected by quitters. It overall stays pretty close despite them.
I'm not sure 100% how to do that, I tried just adding URLs to the games but it wouldn't let me hit submit....

Can you help me there, I'm glad to do it once I know how

EDIT: Just had this happen to me for a 3rd time tonight, lost an entire rank despite being by far the best player on my team and probably 2nd in the game. Let me know how I can link all three of these games.

I'm starting to wonder if people are gaming the system, going into games as 4, having one person quit when the game I close/they are up, and then boosting that way. This is happening far too often to me to be a coincidence...still trending <50% of games 4v4. Total disadvantage to not play with quitters
cicconmr00
You probably weren't able to post the links because your last post was likely over the character limit. Just copy and paste the links to said games in your next post.
cicconmr00 wrote:
I'm not sure 100% how to do that, I tried just adding URLs to the games but it wouldn't let me hit submit....

Can you help me there, I'm glad to do it once I know how

EDIT: Just had this happen to me for a 3rd time tonight, lost an entire rank despite being by far the best player on my team and probably 2nd in the game. Let me know how I can link all three of these games.

I'm starting to wonder if people are gaming the system, going into games as 4, having one person quit when the game I close/they are up, and then boosting that way. This is happening far too often to me to be a coincidence...still trending <50% of games 4v4. Total disadvantage to not play with quitters
Yeah, you'll have to link them. I looked at your last 4 games, none had quitters, and you were clearly not the best player in any of them.

So if you have a game that fits those, I'll need a link since I unfortunately don't have time to go through your match history.

You would just find the match in your waypoint match history, click on it, and then copy past the link from that page.
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