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One of the refreshes we're currently working on is for Doubles and we're at the point where it would be great to hear some feedback!

Please post your Doubles wishlist items in this thread and we'll read through them and see how they fit into what we're doing right now.

Given folks are generally split down the middle on topics like loadouts and radar, we think it would be ideal to find creative ways to offset both concerns using the maps and weapon placements rather than major radar and loadout changes, but feel free to let us know what you think.
The Doubles playlist is something that very much needed a refresh, in my opinion, and I'm glad that it's getting looked at.
I understand that not everyone who loves doubles would want to try HCS/hardcore settings but I can not stand the AR/radar starts. The few times I do feel froggy enough to hop into the doubles playlist I keep forgetting that the maps have been completely revamped and changed to add powerups in random spots, odd automatic weapons to upset the balance of gameplay, and taking things and moving them into weird places. It makes playing doubles almost like re-learning the game.
Having played the Microsoft Store doubles tournaments a few times now it makes me wish that there were some kind of HCS doubles settings for a 2vs2 playlist.
I'd love to see a "Money 2's" idea tested out: HCS slayer with no radar tested out. But this would get stale among casual players quickly with the lack of weapons to use, the few maps that truly support a competitive and symmetrical arena style gameplay, and the player population can't take another hit by adding another playlist.

My real point is here that I'd love to see doubles get sweatier and see a more competitive version of the current doubles playlist instead of getting rushed with a Warzone suppressor that I didn't realize was on the map.
First thing would be to adjust the ranking system, doubles is my favorite playlist and what I play most often. I have had multiple sessions of doubles where I win say 15 games and lose 2 or 3 and somehow overall progress goes down. That needs to change. If I win more than I lose I should be going up, period. But any more on that can go in a different forum . Next thing to adjust is one-sided maps, for example...on Molten, Blue spawn automatically gets camo and starts the game with an advantage, every map should be an even start. Rig is also one sided as the team that spawns in bunker gets better angles and high ground on the first camo while carbine spawn is stuck trying crazy jumps or fighting from the bottom, which everyone in halo knows height is an advantage. Another one sided map is Eden, the team that spawns Blue has an instant height advantage and spawns on top of camo. This is uneven and the blue team gets the better start. So some adjustments with player spawns or power up/weapon spawns might fix this. I would also love to see new maps incorporated, with such a detailed forge why aren't there more maps?, just ensure they are even! Lastly...can 2v2 snipers and objective be added?? That would be Fun!
Thank you so much for help us to get the best experience we could.
I don’t see any problem with the redar. Replacement weapon may be a good idea.
We need to experiment with that!
Thanks
I'm a competitive player and I love HCS so that HCS radar and remove things like Spartan charge and ground pound I feel that would make a huge difference in the playlist. Weapons wise I understand it's doubles, so you can't get rid of automatic weapons, but maybe you can remove the brute plasma? That thing can really be annoying when you got 2 of of them shooting at you lol. Those would be my suggestions. Thanks for reading and refreshing the playlist!
I'd be interested to see if doubles could work with no sprint
HCS settings with a different map rotation that doesnt have mercy tyrant and molten
Sivine wrote:
HCS settings with a different map rotation that doesnt have mercy tyrant and molten
This is really the lowest common denominator of the settings refresh that we are asking for in this thread, I am sure.

An Overshield on Mercy and Tyrant making players tanks and an Active Camo powerup on Molten change how the maps play drastically from how (I imagine) the maps were designed initially. Though I do understand it does make for an anti-camping mechanic and forces the matches to pick up pace the camo is placed in a poor place on Molten.
  • Immediately negating the chance to make a more balanced and competitive Doubles playlist via Loadout and Radar changes is literally heartbreaking. 3 years into the game with multiple failed Doubles iterations and we still can’t make the leap of faith? There is a massive underground competitive 2s scene.
  • Doubles is inherently one of Halo’s most competitive formats. It’s being bogged down by nonsense maps, weapon placements, sandbox choices, Radar, and more that were placed there by previous sustain designers.
  • The map set is over saturated and unnecessary. Tyrant is the worst Doubles map in Halo history and the item layouts are really holding back other maps as well.
If you want a successful Doubles playlist, you’ll need to cut out a lot of nonsense and fluff. Tweaks aren’t going to do anything special.
  • A top requirement IMO is to replace the Motion Tracker with the Abilities Tracker, but not revert to the full HCS settings.

    <> Limit automatics; though, still include them.

    <> Maintain all of the Spartan Abilities -- even Spartan Charge.
  • Another major requirement IMO is to replace the [Recon] H5BRs with the Long-Barrel [Recon] H5BR; thus, giving it a niche strength so it has purpose. This one goes beyond the Doubles playlist as all of the arena environment (social & rank) should receive it.
  • Consider having a single clip of ammunition for power weapons.
  • Consider replacing Overshields and Active Camos with Speed Boosts or Damage Boosts. If keeping Overshield make sure there's plasma weaponry to counter it. I'm not opposed to Active Camo on maps like Mercy were there is some areas with shallow water that can alert situationally aware opponents that an invisible player is nearby.
  • A final requirement IMO is to add some new map variety via custom community maps. Perhaps some of these:
Aquarium
Shurima
Illadris
Elixir
Cobalt
Hazard
The Shire
Nemesis
Outcast
Pyromancer
Box Town
Roshov
Hellbent
Bloodlet Throne
High Garden
Dojo
Aerocrest
Bewilder
Storm Peaks
Arcanum
Oblivion
Old Salt
Chalet
Vessel
Prison
Purple Reign
Aggro
Transcendent
Deacon
Paradigm
Zarathustra's Eulogy
Bleak
The Archives

EDIT (10/5/18): Updated Optic Prison to Prison. The map's aesthetic was overhauled. Added Bewilder.

EDIT (10/22/18): Added Aggro, Transcendent, Deacon, & Paradigm.

EDIT (11/01/18): Added Bleak, Zarathustra's Eulogy, & The Archives
Would really like to see magnum only starts. Remove splinter nades and brute plasma rifle. Molten I think came should be moved to needle spawn to make things fair for both spawns.
Plasma pistol on any map with overshield is a must.
is there a chance we could get Fathom, overgrowth added into the rotation?
HCS settings...

or at least:

-make it pistol starts only,
-increases the perimeter of the radar's detection,
-make the AR a map pick-up weapon only, and
-get rid of Ground Pound,
-but leave Spartan Charge

For the maps, use the current maps and add:

-Fathom,
-Fissure HCS, and
-Echelon HCS,

As well as making some modifications to:
-Eden (change location of Camouflage to Security), and
-Molten (change location of Camouflage to barrels).
keep slides
keep sprint (...)
keep thrusters
raise movement speed by 10%

no radar (unless abilities -sprint- tracker)
no overshield (breaks 2v2 by creating functional 3.5v2 for up to a minute)
no camo (unless it's reverted to crouch-only)
no swords (sprint breaks)
no hammers (sprint breaks)
no spartan charge (breaks CQC)
no ground pound (breaks verticality)

Magnum starts
AR pickup only
reduce overall amount of auto weapons (breaks CQC and mid-range engagements)
include power weapons to compliment magnum start - plasma pistol, sentinel beam, H2 beam rifle (50%), incinerator cannon (35%) are some (H5 corrected) power weapons that don't get a lot of air time which provide added utility to coordinated teams in exchange for some direct kill potential

P L E A S E R E M O V E M O L T E N F R O M M A T C H M A K I N G -- or completely overhaul which weapons are featured, or consider fixing LOS and spawning issues in Forge

look into community doubles maps to refresh the overall playlist with new art styles and gameplay
there's a massive trove of content there with dedicated designers and testing lobbies
Briskxt wrote:
The Doubles playlist is something that very much needed a refresh, in my opinion, and I'm glad that it's getting looked at.
I understand that not everyone who loves doubles would want to try HCS/hardcore settings but I can not stand the AR/radar starts. The few times I do feel froggy enough to hop into the doubles playlist I keep forgetting that the maps have been completely revamped and changed to add powerups in random spots, odd automatic weapons to upset the balance of gameplay, and taking things and moving them into weird places. It makes playing doubles almost like re-learning the game.
Having played the Microsoft Store doubles tournaments a few times now it makes me wish that there were some kind of HCS doubles settings for a 2vs2 playlist.
I'd love to see a "Money 2's" idea tested out: HCS slayer with no radar tested out. But this would get stale among casual players quickly with the lack of weapons to use, the few maps that truly support a competitive and symmetrical arena style gameplay, and the player population can't take another hit by adding another playlist.

My real point is here that I'd love to see doubles get sweatier and see a more competitive version of the current doubles playlist instead of getting rushed with a Warzone suppressor that I didn't realize was on the map.
I would love to see a no radar doubles or HCS settings doubles. Take out splinters, brute rilfes, suppressors, hydras. tone down or eliminate autos
D M4N8 wrote:
HCS settings...

or at least:

-make it pistol starts only,
-increases the perimeter of the radar's detection,
-make the AR a map pick-up weapon only, and
-get rid of Ground Pound,
-but leave Spartan Charge

For the maps, use the current maps and add:

-Fathom,
-Fissure HCS, and
-Echelon HCS,

As well as making some modifications to:
-Eden (change location of Camouflage to Security), and
-Molten (change location of Camouflage to barrels).
get on board with fathom but not the other two maps no way jose. those two maps are traschacans. HCS settings please and camo does need to be moved on molten to needler or barrels. Eden Camo either security or pit.
LOL all you Semi-Pros! Take away this, this, this, this. No, no no. Bless you guys for being able to play such minimalist play styles and modes over and over. And over. 343 already stripped down its marquee playlist (Team Arena) for you hardcore guys! Please don't make another playlist "pro only". I actually agree Molten is rough. But I like Spartan Abilities and automatic weapons. A comprise would be to make them pickups, I'm down with that. I would also like some objective game types in this playlist, to make it more of a place for us traditional Team Arena players to play objectives with the Spartan Abilities that Halo 5 was intended to be played with!

Or, better yet, give all these hardcore guys who can wipe the floor with me everything they want in this playlist and bring back the real Team Arena! (Yes, I know this will never happen... silent casual majority). A man can dream.
LOL all you Semi-Pros! Take away this, this, this, this. No, no no. Bless you guys for being able to play such minimalist play styles and modes over and over. And over. 343 already stripped down its marquee playlist (Team Arena) for you hardcore guys! Please don't make another playlist "pro only". I actually agree Molten is rough. But I like Spartan Abilities and automatic weapons. A comprise would be to make them pickups, I'm down with that. I would also like some objective game types in this playlist, to make it more of a place for us traditional Team Arena players to play objectives with the Spartan Abilities that Halo 5 was intended to be played with!

Or, better yet, give all these hardcore guys who can wipe the floor with me everything they want in this playlist and bring back the real Team Arena! (Yes, I know this will never happen... silent casual majority). A man can dream.
You must be dreaming already. Just because Halo 5 was intended to be played with Spartan Abilities does not make it an inherently good design. People have been arguing past each other on this for the last 3 years.

But - - I agree that autos ought to be pickups - but the nature of them within the sandbox unfortunately limits their viability - they are just too powerful at short and mid-range. Only the Sentinel Beam and SMG are 'focused' enough to remain viable pickups, and the AR is too powerful to serve as anything other than a proxy (doubles-only) power weapon. I also agree with you that there ought to be the true Team Arena playlists, leaving Ranked Doubles to the 'pros' - maybe the Arena version could serve as a sounding board for community-generated content that might make it into the Ranked Playlist via periodic updates, rather than outsourcing gate-kept content selection to websites run on the 'tastemaker' MO. But that would require more resources devoted to matchmaking, and the multiplayer upkeep team seems spread pretty thin.
While I would love implementing HCS settings in doubles personally, I don't feel it's fair to everyone else. Here's what I would like to see as a minimum:
  • Rebalancing of powerups and power weapons on certain maps (Eden and Molten come to mind). Spawning a particular team gives you almost a 100% guarantee you get the powerup.
  • Change up the maps. Some maps just aren't fun and have some unfortunate spawn organizations. Molten simply isn't a pleasant map to play on.
  • ALWAYS have a plasma pistol available on the map if an overshield is going to be present.
  • Change all Song of Peace weapons on map to regular suppressor.
  • Change all brute plasma rifles to Storm Rifles or some form of AR/SMG that is minimally better than a regular AR.
  • I'd like to see some objective variants make a return in doubles but that would likely mean completely different maps for it to work well.

Edit: Maybe change the default AR weapon to the default SMG. Change pickup non-precisions to be ARs.
Iimitz wrote:
ALWAYS have a plasma pistol available on the map if an overshield is going to be present.
I kind of understand not having a plasma pistol available on the map when there's an OS spawn. The plasma pistol tracks way too hard in Halo 5 and makes it almost a power weapon it its utility in melting shields and making a player "one shot". Let alone that it's a three or four non-charged shot + beat down kill on its own. That's why there's a sentinel beam or some other plasma weapon on most maps that have an OS.

I understand that there was initially a rebalance of sorts to get the doubles playlist to be more competitive and geared more towards a more competitive 2vs2 feel and away from the typical 4vs4 maps with simply fewer people. But doubles is a great warm up and a great way to work on team work and collapsing/coordination with your teammates. I, personally, would love to see settings more like tournament settings present in the doubles matchmaking that resemble what we'd be playing.
I feel like a lot of streamers would like to see it, too.
I know, also, that it's a much smaller majority than the general population of the game and that's probably why doubles needs a refresh anyway.
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