Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Halo 5: Matchmaking Feedback Update - Mar 15 2019

OP ZaedynFel

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Reading trough some of this, I think if the minimum csr was bigger, a player could actually see some more rewarding changes in their rank. Like +5 or -5 instead of those insignificant 1 changes where you feel like nothing happens.

Or maybe do something like doubling csr gain or loss, up to a certain point unless your mmr improves. Like 1 win +1csr, next win +2csr, next +4csr, up to about max +10csr and then a loss would reset it.

When a player then ranks higher faster, they more easily understand that oh my winning streak brought me here to these tougher opponents. Instead of feeling that a seemingly random single loss ruins their rank for no visible reason.
Reading trough some of this, I think if the minimum csr was bigger, a player could actually see some more rewarding changes in their rank. Like +5 or -5 instead of those insignificant 1 changes where you feel like nothing happens.

Or maybe do something like doubling csr gain or loss, up to a certain point unless your mmr improves. Like 1 win +1csr, next win +2csr, next +4csr, up to about max +10csr and then a loss would reset it.

When a player then ranks higher faster, they more easily understand that oh my winning streak brought me here to these tougher opponents. Instead of feeling that a seemingly random single loss ruins their rank for no visible reason.
The 1 is what keeps rank inflation/deflation in check; otherwise, the ranks lose their integrity if players can run their CSR away from their MMR.
Can we fix the search times in warzone and turn off MMR in all of the social playlists???
Kavosis wrote:
Can we fix the search times in warzone and turn off MMR in all of the social playlists???
Warzone search times are due to there not being enough players to make a match.

MMR is tuned per playlist based on engagement. For many playlists, if the match isn't fair, they quit the match or stop playing H5, which aren't acceptable solutions.
Going back to my previous example where you said our team should've won because we out classed them in CSR yet still lost the match, yielding my 26 csr loss despite a commendable performance on my part. Here's another example:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8e476063-d549-4c34-8af6-8b11c9c4de30/players/reneggade?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
If I add up their teams aggregate sum of Diamonds vs. Ours they had Diamond 11 vs Diamond 10 on our squad or what I would call a very even match, the score even supports that with 50-48 end result. Yes my KPM that match wasn't great but I actually had a positive KDA of 1.0. What I'm getting at is why the heck did I lose half a rank for this game (-30 ?) Going back to my argument of player perception I seriously hope you can incorporate some type of improvements for Infinite in this regard.

Winning 4 straight and hardly going up and then losing one game and tanking hurts my morale and personal motivation to keep grinding . From my perspective the match was even and I should've lost maybe 10 CSR max for that match.

Also, I'm trying to be constructive and not harp. Hope my opinion helps provoke further discussion if nothing else
ZaedynFel wrote:
Kavosis wrote:
Can we fix the search times in warzone and turn off MMR in all of the social playlists???
Warzone search times are due to there not being enough players to make a match.

MMR is tuned per playlist based on engagement. For many playlists, if the match isn't fair, they quit the match or stop playing H5, which aren't acceptable solutions.
Its a proven fact that more people play halo 5 when warzone assult is around, so im not sure why it isnt a perminant game mode for the last year of h5 untl infinite? I also think lowering it back down to 6 in a warzone lobby will cause for less people quitting and leaving matches due to getting farmed by 12 man teams. Even when 12 mans can just search in warlords if they want too.
Kavosis wrote:
Its a proven fact that more people play halo 5 when warzone assult is around, so im not sure why it isnt a perminant game mode for the last year of h5 untl infinite? I also think lowering it back down to 6 in a warzone lobby will cause for less people quitting and leaving matches due to getting farmed by 12 man teams. Even when 12 mans can just search in warlords if they want too.
WZA has shown to do terrible as a permanent playlist with population. Lowering the party size to 6 didn't solve anything because the those 6 person parties were still able to farm people except it was worse cause a lot of times they weren't able to destroy the core even when they wanted to. The problem with Warlords is it's most likely dead unless 12 party teams coordinate and plan ahead to play each other. Otherwise they're probably never going to find a game.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Kavosis wrote:
Can we fix the search times in warzone and turn off MMR in all of the social playlists???
Warzone search times are due to there not being enough players to make a match.

MMR is tuned per playlist based on engagement. For many playlists, if the match isn't fair, they quit the match or stop playing H5, which aren't acceptable solutions.
Which is due to less skilled players matching higher skilled players. Smaller the community higher the risk of matching the same players over and over. It can leave you feeling uninterested in playing. Shame that!
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Kavosis wrote:
Its a proven fact that more people play halo 5 when warzone assult is around, so im not sure why it isnt a perminant game mode for the last year of h5 untl infinite? I also think lowering it back down to 6 in a warzone lobby will cause for less people quitting and leaving matches due to getting farmed by 12 man teams. Even when 12 mans can just search in warlords if they want too.
WZA has shown to do terrible as a permanent playlist with population. Lowering the party size to 6 didn't solve anything because the those 6 person parties were still able to farm people except it was worse cause a lot of times they weren't able to destroy the core even when they wanted to. The problem with Warlords is it's most likely dead unless 12 party teams coordinate and plan ahead to play each other. Otherwise they're probably never going to find a game.
Yeah, it's not a proven fact, unfortunately. WZA does not bring pop up.
Reneggade wrote:
Going back to my previous example where you said our team should've won because we out classed them in CSR yet still lost the match, yielding my 26 csr loss despite a commendable performance on my part. Here's another example:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8e476063-d549-4c34-8af6-8b11c9c4de30/players/reneggade?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=All
If I add up their teams aggregate sum of Diamonds vs. Ours they had Diamond 11 vs Diamond 10 on our squad or what I would call a very even match, the score even supports that with 50-48 end result. Yes my KPM that match wasn't great but I actually had a positive KDA of 1.0. What I'm getting at is why the heck did I lose half a rank for this game (-30 ?) Going back to my argument of player perception I seriously hope you can incorporate some type of improvements for Infinite in this regard.

Winning 4 straight and hardly going up and then losing one game and tanking hurts my morale and personal motivation to keep grinding . From my perspective the match was even and I should've lost maybe 10 CSR max for that match.

Also, I'm trying to be constructive and not harp. Hope my opinion helps provoke further discussion if nothing else
Part of the issue deals with what we are able to show in Halo 5 without any additional UI work.

If we had the UI for it, we could communicate (using the back end logs) that:

  • Your performance that match was 1071 (Plat 2)
  • Your CSR is 1302
  • A 1071 Performance from a 1302 CSR means you should probably drop a bit.
Also, your recent performances leading up to that match have all been high-Plat rather than mid-Diamond, so you will see yourself float down. If we had the UI for that, we could have shown you those low Peformances each match prior.

But CSR doesn't move as fast as MMR. So your MMR can drop really fast down to Plat, but we will let your CSR float down slowly in case it was a fluke and goes back up.

But if it doesn't go back up, it needs to keep floating down.
Also, this is Team Arena, where your skill isn't the same in every mode. Your MMR is 1383 overall, but some game modes are worse than others.

Here you are over the last few weeks in Team Arena

arena
Not sure why I am not ranking up though i won about 20 in a row. I am usually ranked pretty high around champ if not champ but my CSR bar does not move regardless of how well I play or how much I win.
My game thread here:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/game-history/players/suspects%20yoshi?gameModeFilter=All&start=0&count=10
Please let me know / shed some light on the ranking for 2v2 Competitive playlist. It seems to be broken on my account. Thanks
Is anyone else having trouble finding games? FFA, WZ, and BTB? Also, what is my MMR? I would like to know.

Thanks
Zaedyn,

Wondering if you could answer a quick question. My friend and I have dusted off the controllers and have started playing Halo again (2v2) with a goal of getting to diamond for old times sake. Recently our CSR has been diverging despite the fact that we have only played 2v2 together. I am P5 he is now P2 or P3. Why are we diverging even though our W/L for the playlist is identical? I dont think I really do much better than him game to game.
why does the algorithm allow you to go from a match where the other team quits to a match that you couldn’t possible win. What this means is on a lot of sessions you could win one lose one... be 50% win rate and lose 10 ranks. You get almost no csr for your 4v3 match and lose half a rank for your loss.
why does the algorithm allow you to go from a match where the other team quits to a match that you couldn’t possible win. What this means is on a lot of sessions you could win one lose one... be 50% win rate and lose 10 ranks. You get almost no csr for your 4v3 match and lose half a rank for your loss.
Link those matches if you want to know why you lost what you did.

But matchmaking doesn't look at your match history, it matches you with the closest players available at the time.
Ahvvi wrote:
Is anyone else having trouble finding games? FFA, WZ, and BTB? Also, what is my MMR? I would like to know.

Thanks
Yes mate but no trouble matching sam teams when i do.
ZaedynFel wrote:
why does the algorithm allow you to go from a match where the other team quits to a match that you couldn’t possible win. What this means is on a lot of sessions you could win one lose one... be 50% win rate and lose 10 ranks. You get almost no csr for your 4v3 match and lose half a rank for your loss.
Link those matches if you want to know why you lost what you did.

But matchmaking doesn't look at your match history, it matches you with the closest players available at the time.
So I just gave a fantastic new addition to your algorithm. If your ranking algorithm allows me to win 50% of my games and theoretically only go down then your ranking algorithm is broken.
ZaedynFel wrote:
why does the algorithm allow you to go from a match where the other team quits to a match that you couldn’t possible win. What this means is on a lot of sessions you could win one lose one... be 50% win rate and lose 10 ranks. You get almost no csr for your 4v3 match and lose half a rank for your loss.
Link those matches if you want to know why you lost what you did.

But matchmaking doesn't look at your match history, it matches you with the closest players available at the time.
So I just gave a fantastic new addition to your algorithm. If your ranking algorithm allows me to win 50% of my games and theoretically only go down then your ranking algorithm is broken.
The ranking algorithm has zero to do with allowing you to win 50% of your matches. We don't use Ranks at all in matchmaking.

If you are winning 50% of your matches and still going down, then your performance in those matches is below every other player with your rank, so your rank must go down.

I see nothing broken.

Ranks are closer to MMR than ever, and MMR is more accurate than ever at predicting match outcomes (wins, kills, deaths). It is currently the most accurate system I've worked with.
  • Quote:
    • Your performance that match was 1071 (Plat 2)
    • Your CSR is 1302
    • A 1071 Performance from a 1302 CSR means you should probably drop a bit.
I like the idea but make it more simple, normalize every performance on a 1-100 scale, even make the range 0.0-10.0- so it's simple to understand. After every match a little metric pops up that said your performance score for that match, a 5.0 would equate to 0 CSR gain/loss a 10.0 or 0.0 would equate to +30/-30 CSR. This way it's straightforward on why your CSR bar just dropped a ton or didn't move at all. I also love that graph you showed, that should be under your career page where you can look back at the last 50 matches you played and see how your're doing.

But to make it even more transparent have a little in game UI that says "What does this score mean?" where you lay down a brief overview how this score is calculated saying Winning is king and who you play matters. What's more- I think at the start of every ranked match (not in the lobby, at the part where it shows the Spartans coming together) GIVE the score predictor before the match begins, have something pop up that says "RED Team Favored by 5 pts [Slayer]) That way when the game concludes and your score performance metric pops up you can have an idea why it happened, you can look back and go Oh, we were favored by 5 pts and still lost, it makes sense why my rank went down.

Every sports professional match and heck every collegiate match offers the odds of the game beforehand. If E-sports is trying to go into that Realm than it makes sense to give odds before the match starts.

And at least to me, I don't think people would back out when the odds show that you're supposed to lose by +15 kills, because at that point the match was moments from starting and you'd have the BAN hammer penalty in place. Also, I just think it'd just be a fun thing to throw in there because as you say you already have all this data anyhow, now show us. Honestly, the options are endless to but we need to be more transparent with Rank and how it works/Why you're going up/down. Apex has an in game score counter that adjusts per kill/assist/placement so there is literally no confusion on your score- food for thought anyhow. @ZaedynFel
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