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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – August 28

OP ZaedynFel

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Swat . When you all tightened the search perimeter back up the other week it's made it to where Champs could not find a game running solo or with a team anymore which in conclusion made you have to have a lower tier player with you or a Smurf. The only time of day that you could run and find other Champs was within a two hour time frame about 8 p.m. Eastern. Tooooo many pistol games. Swat originated with BRs . please have more
There is way too much banshee spam, the regular banshee req level should be atleast a level 6.
ArtimusGG wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ArtimusGG wrote:
Also feel the way points are rewarded should be looked at as well. Give a reward to the team if it does the vast majority of damage to a boss. Boss stealing is not fun, promotes not playing the objective and letting other players do the work until you can cheese the kill.
...
I would agree with you if the rewards for Legendary and Mystic AI Bosses weren't as impactful as they are. From my perspective, the fact that they carry the primary values for winning a contested match gives the mode more of a PvE flair than a PvP battle. If the scoring system put more emphasis on controlling the bases and perhaps on earning spartan kills with the AI enemies being more-so supplemental aspects to that scoring system and mostly useful for driving up individual REQ levels then yes I'd agree with your sentiment, but that's not really the case with how Warzone has been built which is why I personally support and advocate for dividing up the current large point values (150 and 200) based on the effort being put forth between the contending teams as well as by rewarding the killing blow. By making that alteration I think it would foster greater balance to the current design of Warzone.
...
It may not be the optimal thread for this discussion as you say, but it's nonetheless an opportunity for us to leave our feedback on this matchmaking mode which given this week's update here would seem quite acceptable.

I rarely disagree with you, but this is probably an area where we will have to agree to disagree. I don't personally find games that focus on pushing base strongholds to be boring affairs; in fact, I find that game-play concept (ex. 3-Plot, Strongholds, Dominion) a heck of a lot more satisfying than potentially pissing my ammunition away on an AI bullet sponge. Also, in my opinion the current changes to the REQ system have helped reduce the amount of players who fortify themselves into base locations with power weapons because less people are able to continuously rock upper level items if they're not actively involved with the destruction of high value AI enemies which of course isn't occurring if they're simply focused on camping a base.

I do agree though that as part of Warzone's AI implementation design a team should be able to remain competitive score wise, and even possibly win, by maintaining control of their one non-HQ base while focusing most of their effort on earning the majority of AI scoring opportunities which would also grant REQ boosts to the individuals who earned those points for the team. To note: those REQ boosts would improve those individuals chances in overtaking an opposing team's base too. I don't necessarily agree that reducing or dividing the value of the VIP AI points will prevent the team controlling one base from remaining competitive because more lower-level supplemental enemies could be added in-between VIP bosses to help offset any total value difference that splitting or reducing boss points might be concerned to cause.
I like your post. Are you saying that a possible better solution would be to put more lower value AI targets into Warzone?
I don't know if having more lower value AI targets in Warzone is a "better" solution or not, but the particular point I was trying to convey in my response to RzR J3ST3R was that if data suggested that fairly balanced teams (skill-wise) appeared fairly incapable (to a significant percent) of maintaining an even match score under the circumstance of one side maintaining control of two bases while the other side possessed only one yet with the caveat being that that team (controlling one base) was able to earn the majority of the AI point values (particularly the VIP bosses) in order to offset the point differential created by not controlling two bases then perhaps a potential solution to the concern of there not being enough AI point values available to the team controlling one base to maintain a competitive match might be to introduce more AI targets of lower value to make up the point value differential being caused by altering the payouts of the VIP AI Bosses be that by reducing their value or by splitting their value. Truth be told, I don't anticipate there being an issue regarding a lack of available AI points.

This initial comment...
eLantern wrote:
I would agree with you if the rewards for Legendary and Mystic AI Bosses weren't as impactful as they are. From my perspective, the fact that they carry the primary values for winning a contested match gives the mode much more of a PvE flair than a PvP battle. If the scoring system put more emphasis on controlling the bases and perhaps earning spartan kills with the AI enemies being more-so supplemental aspects to that scoring system and mostly useful for driving up individual REQ levels then yes I'd agree with your sentiment, but that's not really the case with how Warzone has been built which is why I personally support and advocate for dividing up the large point values (150 and 200) based on the effort being put forth between the contending teams as well as by rewarding the killing blow. By making that alteration I think it would foster greater balance to the current design of Warzone.
...that I made toward RzR J3ST3R described a scenario in which had 343i designed Warzone differently by focusing the mode to be more of a Base Capture mode with Spartan kills and the AI influence playing some supplemental scoring role then I would have agreed with his views on Warzone being a PvP mode over a PvE mode. I was trying to point out that under a more PvP orientated Warzone design that the most important influence of the AI would have been their REQ boost impact so ignoring them wouldn't necessarily have been detrimental to the match outcome, but it would have put a team at a noticeable REQ level disadvantage if they didn't put enough effort into earning any AI kills. This is a scenario where I believe much lower AI point values and more lower level AIs in general would have been necessary as it would have kept the mode more about the PvP action and less about the PvE stuff, but I also can't say whether or not this type of Warzone mode would have been "better" because it's not only extremely subjective, but it's entirely theoretical since the alternative mode I describe doesn't exist in order to try it out in comparison.
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Yeah this type of thing is what causes people stop playing halo. I can't tell you how many times Iv ran into this in Big team battle and warzone and how frustrating it is just to try to take down a single player exploiting this problem.
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Yes, this is a massive issue. The Banshee single handedly changes the match way too often.

A few days ago I was playing a game and we were pinned down in the garage. I called in a Hydra and was able to fire 3 different volleys at Banshees.

Not one of them connected. The Banshees simply boosted away and evaded them with rolls.

It's so frustrating to watch players get 40 kills by milking this unbalanced vehicle. It needs to be fixed if Warzone is going to work.
ArtimusGG wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ArtimusGG wrote:
Also feel the way points are rewarded should be looked at as well. Give a reward to the team if it does the vast majority of damage to a boss. Boss stealing is not fun, promotes not playing the objective and letting other players do the work until you can cheese the kill.
...
I would agree with you if the rewards for Legendary and Mystic AI Bosses weren't as impactful as they are. From my perspective, the fact that they carry the primary values for winning a contested match gives the mode more of a PvE flair than a PvP battle. If the scoring system put more emphasis on controlling the bases and perhaps on earning spartan kills with the AI enemies being more-so supplemental aspects to that scoring system and mostly useful for driving up individual REQ levels then yes I'd agree with your sentiment, but that's not really the case with how Warzone has been built which is why I personally support and advocate for dividing up the current large point values (150 and 200) based on the effort being put forth between the contending teams as well as by rewarding the killing blow. By making that alteration I think it would foster greater balance to the current design of Warzone.
...

One point for you to consider: a benefit of the 200 and 100 point bosses right now is that they enable a team to win while only holding 1 armory all game. If you nerfed the boss points, it would be MUCH harder to do that, and the team that capped mid base to start the game would have a bigger advantage. And since the REQ system makes capping bases really hard if enemies choose to turtle up in their bases with power weapons and camo, it's nice to have a path to victory through boss takedowns. Otherwise games would just be really boring affairs of pushing bases and repeatedly dying to guys in fortified positions with power weapons.

This probably isn't the optimal thread for discussion on this precise topic, sorry about that. I'll try and limit my comments on this.
It may not be the optimal thread for this discussion as you say, but it's nonetheless an opportunity for us to leave our feedback on this matchmaking mode which given this week's update here would seem quite acceptable.

I rarely disagree with you, but this is probably an area where we will have to agree to disagree. I don't personally find games that focus on pushing base strongholds to be boring affairs; in fact, I find that game-play concept (ex. 3-Plot, Strongholds, Dominion) a heck of a lot more satisfying than potentially pissing my ammunition away on an AI bullet sponge. Also, in my opinion the current changes to the REQ system have helped reduce the amount of players who fortify themselves into base locations with power weapons because less people are able to continuously rock upper level items if they're not actively involved with the destruction of high value AI enemies which of course isn't occurring if they're simply focused on camping a base.

I do agree though that as part of Warzone's AI implementation design a team should be able to remain competitive score wise, and even possibly win, by maintaining control of their one non-HQ base while focusing most of their effort on earning the majority of AI scoring opportunities which would also grant REQ boosts to the individuals who earned those points for the team. To note: those REQ boosts would improve those individuals chances in overtaking an opposing team's base too. I don't necessarily agree that reducing or dividing the value of the VIP AI points will prevent the team controlling one base from remaining competitive because more lower-level supplemental enemies could be added in-between VIP bosses to help offset any total value difference that splitting or reducing boss points might be concerned to cause.
I like your post. Are you saying that a possible better solution would be to put more lower value AI targets into Warzone?
Each team should have a seperate health bar for the big bosses (100+) That way it comes down to who downs it first without the other team getting a last hit after your team has done all the damage.
I would love that. That takes care of cheesing and abusing REQs in order to stealth kill bosses.

It doesn't take skill to call in camo and sit there waiting to melee the boss in the back. The way it currently works allows for some really frustrating results.

Your idea or something like it really needs to be considered.
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
the people that are good at this are impossible to take down. especially if you are solo queuing and your team seems fine letting it murder you.
TeancomPMG wrote:
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Yeah this type of thing is what causes people stop playing halo. I can't tell you how many times Iv ran into this in Big team battle and warzone and how frustrating it is just to try to take down a single player exploiting this problem.
It's not an exploit, it's because (a) you let them get ahead on REQ level so they could call banshees before you. That's on you and your teammates. And (b) you may not know the most effective ways to take down banshees. I'm a pretty good banshee pilot so I'm probably one of those guys you hate. Against average players I can carry a game in my banshee, but good teams will take me down fast if I'm not super careful. I just posted a thread to outline the best ways to take down banshees, for those who don't already know.

Short answer: don't use weapons that require lock-on. The pilots will just flip away. There are better options against good pilots.
Move Wasp from REQ 4 to REQ 5 & Banshee from REQ 5 to REQ 6 to stop the air vehicle spam early on in matches.
Move Wasp from REQ 4 to REQ 5 & Banshee from REQ 5 to REQ 6 to stop the air vehicle spam early on in matches.
Please for the sake of balancing the game.
Hey Josh here are a few links to my game history. The first one is where a game played fairly consistent all the way through.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4c1cc011-67e1-4538-a48d-ad46cc18fa45/players/zippyskippy?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=ArenaThis next link the game played slow and sluggish in the beginning until about halfway through. During that time the aim is very hard to control and movement is sluggish and not very responsive. not to mention hit detection is very bad.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/07c8c197-c66e-4574-af9e-a959497a9995/players/zippyskippy?gameHistoryMatchIndex=1&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=ArenaThis last one started out slow and sluggish with bad hit detection and bad aiming control also. But the reason I add this one is because when someone quits or gets dropped from the game the game plays off. Sometimes it frees and becomes less sluggish and sometimes it gets worse. Most of the time though the game frees up and plays much better.. This may be normal but I have very strong doubts about that. Its bad enough losing a player or two but its even worse when ones performance is compromised by it.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/ecd12a62-cccd-4bcc-8ae2-ce8374c93721/players/zippyskippy?gameHistoryMatchIndex=4&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=ArenaJosh one of the easiest ways to spot what I'm trying to describe is by looking at data in the early start of a game. Players that start out with zero kills and six or better deaths before they actually get a kill may likely be experiencing this issue I have described back in last weeks thread. I don't want to say all but I think its more then one would think. Ive played this with several others and some have noticed this also as we play the game. Not all but some. I just want to make that clear. My problem isn't with ranking system I think you have done a great job at that. My issue is not getting any consistent game play in the performance area. No two games play alike. Not even close. It makes me wonder if I'm consistently staying on the same server or if I'm bouncing around? Again thanks for all your time. I do appreciate it. If you need more links or anything else please let me know.
Zippy.
Thanks for these! I'll pass them along. From a matchmaking point of view, it says it put you in your best datacenter for matches 1 and 2, and says you had good ping, so latency shouldn't be the issue in this case.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ArtimusGG wrote:
Also feel the way points are rewarded should be looked at as well. Give a reward to the team if it does the vast majority of damage to a boss. Boss stealing is not fun, promotes not playing the objective and letting other players do the work until you can cheese the kill.
Do you mean points should be awarded to a team if they do damage to the boss, even if the enemy team gets the final shot? I'm sorry, but every time I hear people advocating for that option, it makes me roll my eyes. The whole point of Warzone IMHO is that it's fundamentally a PvP mode with a little PvE AI mixed in. If you start awarding points based on damage dealt to a boss, rather than on the team who actually secures the kill, you've just turned WZ into a PvE game mode.

If people want to play PvE, there are 2-3 Warzone Firefight playlists dedicated to that experience. Please, let's keep Warzone a PvP mode. The "Work" in PvP warzone isn't supposed to be sitting there mindlessly melting a Mythic boss with a tank (see: Warzone Firefight), it's out-playing the enemy spartans to win the game, whether by stealing the bosses or capping their bases.
I would agree with you if the rewards for Legendary and Mystic AI Bosses weren't as much as they are. From my perspective, the fact that they carry the primary values for winning a contested match gives the mode more of a PvE than a PvP battle. If the scoring system put more emphasis on controlling the bases and earning spartan kills with the AI enemies being supplemental aspects to that scoring system then yes I'd agree with you sentiments, but that's not really the case which is why I personally support and advocate for dividing up the large point values (150 and 200) based on the effort being put forth between the contending teams.
I don't personally see a problem with the 25 or 100 point bosses - stealing them takes skill and often teamwork, and seems like a totally viable strategy IMO, and part of the fun of WZ. And it's possible to recover if one of them gets stolen. I sympathize with the 200-point mythic bosses being problematic, because they're SO strong, and SO valuable that they cause 400-point swings at the last second. At first I really hated the mythics, for the exact reasons you mention.

Having played a lot more, I've come to accept the mythic bosses in WZ... they only matter in like 25% of games anyway, and the ones they do, they add a bit of excitement / frenzied pushing / and unpredictability, making it possible for a team to clutch it at the last second. Plus, they provide a motivation for everyone to stay aggressive and try to cap bases so the game doesn't come down to someone stealing the mythic.

One point for you to consider: a benefit of the 200 and 100 point bosses right now is that they enable a team to win while only holding 1 armory all game. If you nerfed the boss points, it would be MUCH harder to do that, and the team that capped mid base to start the game would have a bigger advantage. And since the REQ system makes capping bases really hard if enemies choose to turtle up in their bases with power weapons and camo, it's nice to have a path to victory through boss takedowns. Otherwise games would just be really boring affairs of pushing bases and repeatedly dying to guys in fortified positions with power weapons.

This probably isn't the optimal thread for discussion on this precise topic, sorry about that. I'll try and limit my comments on this.
I agree with you on your stance on stealing bosses. The point is to get the actual kill shot. If the boss points were awarded based on damage inflicted (from both teams) there would be no point of going after that 200 point boss if the score is 950-800 and your team only has one armory, and the enemy has control of the boss area.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
TeancomPMG wrote:
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Yeah this type of thing is what causes people stop playing halo. I can't tell you how many times Iv ran into this in Big team battle and warzone and how frustrating it is just to try to take down a single player exploiting this problem.
It's not an exploit, it's because (a) you let them get ahead on REQ level so they could call banshees before you. That's on you and your teammates. And (b) you may not know the most effective ways to take down banshees. I'm a pretty good banshee pilot so I'm probably one of those guys you hate. Against average players I can carry a game in my banshee, but good teams will take me down fast if I'm not super careful. I just posted a thread to outline the best ways to take down banshees, for those who don't already know.

Short answer: don't use weapons that require lock-on. The pilots will just flip away. There are better options against good pilots.
Alright kid then enlighten me. When your on a BTB map like say Viking and the other team is camping the laser spawn and have a "Good" pilot such as yourself getting kill after kill doing dumb flips while spawn killing people with the banshee cannon what do you suggest to do?
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ArtimusGG wrote:
Also feel the way points are rewarded should be looked at as well. Give a reward to the team if it does the vast majority of damage to a boss. Boss stealing is not fun, promotes not playing the objective and letting other players do the work until you can cheese the kill.
Do you mean points should be awarded to a team if they do damage to the boss, even if the enemy team gets the final shot? I'm sorry, but every time I hear people advocating for that option, it makes me roll my eyes. The whole point of Warzone IMHO is that it's fundamentally a PvP mode with a little PvE AI mixed in. If you start awarding points based on damage dealt to a boss, rather than on the team who actually secures the kill, you've just turned WZ into a PvE game mode.

If people want to play PvE, there are 2-3 Warzone Firefight playlists dedicated to that experience. Please, let's keep Warzone a PvP mode. The "Work" in PvP warzone isn't supposed to be sitting there mindlessly melting a Mythic boss with a tank (see: Warzone Firefight), it's out-playing the enemy spartans to win the game, whether by stealing the bosses or capping their bases.
...
...
I agree with you on your stance on stealing bosses. The point is to get the actual kill shot. If the boss points were awarded based on damage inflicted (from both teams) there would be no point of going after that 200 point boss if the score is 950-800 and your team only has one armory, and the enemy has control of the boss area.
I understand the sentiment and agree that the point is to actually get the kill shot. Just so you know I was not advocating for a pure damage based method to award those VIP Boss points.

It's my opinion that Legendary and Mythic Bosses should either posses two life bars (one dedicated to each team) or that their point value award be capable of being split up under 3 key factors. Those three key factors are: ONE divide 100 points per the percentage of rounded damage dealt by the two teams, TWO landing the killing blow receives a chunk of points too (50 or 100 points), and THREE the team that landed the killing blow has their total points added first before the other team gets any damage points added to their team score -- that should help settle the importance of landing the killing blow come game end with either team in position to win. I also wouldn't mind there being a distance limit on being able to observe the life meters for these particular bosses in order to help lessen the effective tactic of trying to "steal the kill" with a perfectly timed long-distance Power Weapon shot.

VIP Boss values under the split method:
  • 50 points (Legendary AI Boss ) or 100 points (Mythic AI Boss) get rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow; plus, landing the killing blow grants priority in scoring all the earned points.
  • 100 points get divided up per team based on the percentages of damage dealt. (EXAMPLE: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damage will be rewarded 73 points and the other team gets the remaining points)
Both methods (splitting the points or having team specific health bars) manage to keep landing the killing blow a notable aspect of the reward system (as it should), but both methods are able to provide a better balance to the overall Warzone experience.
TeancomPMG wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
TeancomPMG wrote:
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Alright kid then enlighten me. When your on a BTB map like say Viking and the other team is camping the laser spawn and have a "Good" pilot such as yourself getting kill after kill doing dumb flips while spawn killing people with the banshee cannon what do you suggest to do?
  1. No need to be snarky. I'm probably 10 years older than you. And I'm trying to be constructive.
  2. I'm much more of a WZ player than a BTB player, so my advice on BTB is limited. But sounds like a bad situation. You should be doing everything in your power to avoid GETTING into that situation in the first place. Keep track of the laser spawn, keep track of the banshee spawn, and try to control them. If you get outplayed doing that, then yes things will steamroll. Same idea as losing control of camo, OS, and rockets in an arena game - you are in deep -Yoink-. People complain about getting steamrolled by power weapons and vehicles, but don't take the actions necessary to PREVENT the enemy getting control in the first place! That's where halo really shines - in the fights and strategy to GET control. Learn how to control those powerful weapons more effectively.
  3. If you truly get caught in that situation, you have a tough road. You have to chip away... You're probably going to give up a lot of slays and 1-2 flag caps. Gotta teamshot the banshee as much as possible, and whenever it retreats to regen, you try and take better positions and fight off spartans. It's just a paper banshee, if you drop its shields it's pretty weak. use ARs when it's close, BRs when it's far away. And keep shooting at it.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
TeancomPMG wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
TeancomPMG wrote:
The Banshee is too freaking powerful in Warzone. It needed to be nerfed a long time ago. It's ability to constantly do flips and tricks makes it near impossible to board, hit with a Spartan laser, railgun, rocket launcher, plasma pistol, Hydra, even sniper rifles. You name it. I just finished a match in warzone while solo-queing and Ispent the entire match trying to take down one banshee and it couldn't be done.
This is in desperate need of fixing.
Suggestion:
1. Make the cool down rate for flips much much longer for the banshee. This will give the plasma pistol and other locked-on weapons more effective. It will also punish those players that do flips all over the map with reckless abandon. Even this simple fix will help balance the god-like power of the Banshee. Again, make the cool down rate much much much much longer.
Alright kid then enlighten me. When your on a BTB map like say Viking and the other team is camping the laser spawn and have a "Good" pilot such as yourself getting kill after kill doing dumb flips while spawn killing people with the banshee cannon what do you suggest to do?
  1. No need to be snarky. I'm probably 10 years older than you. And I'm trying to be constructive.
  2. I'm much more of a WZ player than a BTB player, so my advice on BTB is limited. But sounds like a bad situation. You should be doing everything in your power to avoid GETTING into that situation in the first place. Keep track of the laser spawn, keep track of the banshee spawn, and try to control them. If you get outplayed doing that, then yes things will steamroll. Same idea as losing control of camo, OS, and rockets in an arena game - you are in deep -Yoink-. People complain about getting steamrolled by power weapons and vehicles, but don't take the actions necessary to PREVENT the enemy getting control in the first place! That's where halo really shines - in the fights and strategy to GET control. Learn how to control those powerful weapons more effectively.
  3. If you truly get caught in that situation, you have a tough road. You have to chip away... You're probably going to give up a lot of slays and 1-2 flag caps. Gotta teamshot the banshee as much as possible, and whenever it retreats to regen, you try and take better positions and fight off spartans. It's just a paper banshee, if you drop its shields it's pretty weak. use ARs when it's close, BRs when it's far away. And keep shooting at it.
Well the advice your giving isn't helping. I get it your an expirrenced player that's good at halo. But simply telling people to not get into situations doesn't help. Team shotting a banchee doesn't work when your spawn locked.
Here's a match that pretty much encapsulates what's awful with this new system. I'm seeing matches along these lines regularly. I was playing with a To4 (the top 4), but basically everyone else on our team got WRECKED. Nobody else went positive, most had 3 or fewer kills (one went 3-33). The other team had 9 players with 20+ kills, and only 1 guy on their team had negative KDA. I've got a few points to make here:

  1. Having REQs "dripped" to them didn't help my teammates. They still were helpless. I think that's a fundamental misconception 343 has here... giving more REQ energy to less skilled players doesn't necessarily help game balance. In fact, it may make things WORSE if they give them away!
  2. This game played exactly like it looks on the scoreboard. 4 v 11. We constantly had 3+ enemies in our lone remaining base. Got trip capped at one point, escaped but still was hopeless. Under the old system, we at LEAST would have had a chance to REQ up fast ourselves, maybe stealing the enemy bosses, to help deny the enemy from raising their REQ level and help our teammates REQ up, then get out big REQs of our own (e.g. banshees, phaetons, Jorges) to try and hold our base and secure some map control and key bosses. OR, we would have been trip capped and cored within 10 minutes, and could have moved on to the next game. Instead we just fought wave after wave of enemies with power weapons storming our base, while our overmatched teammates got farmed.
  3. This game finished 1000-640. But at no point was it ever "close". How is this an improvement?
  4. Josh, i'd be very curious to know what the team MMRs were in this match. Did the system correctly predict a total mismatch here? If not, then I guarantee the MMRs have not yet adjusted for the new settings.
Since more people in WZ games have high REQ levels now, the match outcomes are dictated by how many people call big REQs and use them effectively. Previously it was more about how well you could help your team stay ahead of the other teams' REQ level. I think the original was much more strategic and more fun.

One important caveat: it's POSSIBLE that these changes will allow for more balanced matches with 12-man teams. If so, awesome. But I'm not convinced that will actually happen in MM.
I'm just curious why Warzone has to be all about the bases. Put some interesting objectives in - like CTF between bases. The maps are wonderful, but the campy playstyle is lame. You should be able to clear it out, steal something, and then have the action move through out the map.

Also, agree with all the comments on banshees here. I swear I've gotten four different types of cancer when there's a superflipper.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Here's a match
Just a guess here, but I think the matchmaking system may have seen an acceptably competitive match (MMR) based on your group of 4 plus Esilious and Grettelvaldez21 verses the other team's top 4 plus Amdahls Law and TSW Ryder FRG, but unfortunately your side did not receive much assistance from the additional group of 6 lesser experienced players verses what your opponents got from their less experienced players. Add that to the fact that you guys lost Esilious and Grettelvaldez21 somewhat early on and I'm sure your team was put into a bad place competitively which probably had a snowball effect that led to other maybe somewhat useful players quitting out too; therefore, leaving you consistently down players and at a significant disadvantage in comparison.
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ArtimusGG wrote:
Also feel the way points are rewarded should be looked at as well. Give a reward to the team if it does the vast majority of damage to a boss. Boss stealing is not fun, promotes not playing the objective and letting other players do the work until you can cheese the kill.
Do you mean points should be awarded to a team if they do damage to the boss, even if the enemy team gets the final shot? I'm sorry, but every time I hear people advocating for that option, it makes me roll my eyes. The whole point of Warzone IMHO is that it's fundamentally a PvP mode with a little PvE AI mixed in. If you start awarding points based on damage dealt to a boss, rather than on the team who actually secures the kill, you've just turned WZ into a PvE game mode.

If people want to play PvE, there are 2-3 Warzone Firefight playlists dedicated to that experience. Please, let's keep Warzone a PvP mode. The "Work" in PvP warzone isn't supposed to be sitting there mindlessly melting a Mythic boss with a tank (see: Warzone Firefight), it's out-playing the enemy spartans to win the game, whether by stealing the bosses or capping their bases.
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I agree with you on your stance on stealing bosses. The point is to get the actual kill shot. If the boss points were awarded based on damage inflicted (from both teams) there would be no point of going after that 200 point boss if the score is 950-800 and your team only has one armory, and the enemy has control of the boss area.
VIP Boss values under the split method:
  • 50 points (Legendary AI Boss ) or 100 points (Mythic AI Boss) get rewarded to the team that landed the killing blow; plus, landing the killing blow grants priority in scoring all the earned points.
  • 100 points get divided up per team based on the percentages of damage dealt. (EXAMPLE: a team that deals approximately 73% of the damage will be rewarded 73 points and the other team gets the remaining points)
Both methods (splitting the points or having team specific health bars) manage to keep landing the killing blow a notable aspect of the reward system, but both methods are able to provide a better balance to the overall Warzone experience.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and I see your point. But the problem is that it makes things way too complicated to figure out your paths to victory. Right now, you can say to yourself: "OK the score is 900-750 and they have 2 bases, we have 1. Our only path to victory is to kill the 200-point boss quickly while ALSO out-slaying them or capping a quick base, hoping to win 1000-990 or something." It's easy arithmetic to do on the fly.

A very complicated boss point split would complicate decision making too much IMO. "Do I damage the boss? Do I cap a base? Hold on, let me get my calculator... -Yoink- I'm dead" ;-)
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