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[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – August 31

OP ZaedynFel

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We are aiming to roll the season towards the end of next week and have a couple of announcements to go along with that.

New Maps in SWAT and Slayer

We reviewed the maps we added to Team Arena and Community Slayer, plus previously used maps, and are making changes to SWAT and Slayer.

Here are the new lists that will go live with the season roll next week, according to our current plans (which are subject to change, but not likely at this point):

Slayer
  • Coliseum
  • The Rig
  • Plaza
  • Regret
  • Fathom
  • Truth
  • Empire
  • Eden
  • Torque
  • Stasis
  • Mercy (Refreshed)
  • White Cell
  • Pegasus II
  • Echelon
  • Russet
  • Fissure
  • Seclusion
  • Refuge

SWAT
SWAT BRs - 13 maps
  • Truth
  • The Rig
  • Eden
  • Plaza
  • Coliseum
  • Mercy (Refreshed)
  • Empire
  • Fathom
  • Regret
  • Riptide
  • Stasis
  • Echelon
  • Russet
SWATnums – 13 maps
  • Truth
  • The Rig
  • Eden
  • Plaza x2
  • Coliseum x2
  • Mercy (Refreshed)
  • Regret
  • Riptide
  • Stasis
  • Echelon
  • Russet

SWAT DMRs – 12 maps
  • Truth
  • The Rig
  • Eden
  • Plaza x2
  • Coliseum x2
  • Mercy (Refreshed)
  • Fathom
  • Stasis
  • Echelon
  • Russet
SWAT H1 - 10 maps
  • Truth
  • The Rig
  • Eden
  • Plaza
  • Coliseum
  • Fathom
  • Riptide
  • Stasis
  • Echelon
  • Russet

SWAT H2 – 9 maps
  • Truth
  • The Rig
  • Eden
  • Plaza
  • Coliseum
  • Fathom
  • Stasis
  • Echelon
  • Russet

Initial Rank Starts 100 instead of 200 back from Placement, max Placement rank still diamond 3

While going 200 back results in a period of time more comparable to previous seasons in terms of getting to your rank, it’s 2/3 of a full rank, which means many players start a full Rank below their actual. We are going back to 100 so less players start outside their target Rank.
Note: The x2 marks mean the map has been double weighted.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Note: The x2 marks mean the map has been double weighted.
Super happy to receive a map refresh for the Slayer and SWAT playlists, but why double weight any of the maps? It’s always annoying when you get the same thing twice.

Why does SWAT H2BR only have 9 maps instead of at least 10?

Why not go with a max placement rank cap of Diamond 5 which would be 100 points below Onyx?

Is Microsoft Research finished with their updates to TS2?

Any news you can share with us regarding the team’s investigations on CSR and MMR anomalies?

Where are things standing regarding the investigation into the Elimination playlist?

Some of these issues were supposedly going to get resolved by a new TS2 batch run, so will that be happening with the seasonal reset (assuming Microsoft Research has finished their updates to TS2)?

Can you share anything about the potentially new CSR formula regarding its complexity and how it aims to improve adjustment responsiveness? I hope it eliminates the 1-match lag.
Super excited about this! Thanks 343 :)

Excited to try out russet and echelon!
Can we get some of the new Team Arena maps on FFA, too?

HCS style? Having only two maps kind of sucks.
So my friend and I mostly play games together, we both have our fair share of moments, but I tend to get a higher CSR.
Out of curiosity could I ask for my friend's (Vintage YJ) and my MMR for Slayer?
@NBK DarkWarlock

Quote:
false and you know it, i check my stat today and in arena before the tuning i had almost more kill with the br than the magnum, now i have less than 10 kill. the magnum is better and more consistent like the old br
What’s false and I know it?

The pre-tune BR outperformed the standard Magnum in just about every single way. It had the same hip-fire RRR while possessing a much bigger ADS RRR. The burst was incredibly tight which sort of mimicked the single round shots of the Magnum. Its recoil wasn’t anywhere near as dramatic as it is now and paired with the tight burst the weapon had fairly similar consistency to the Magnum too. Its optimal TTK was just about the same as the standard Magnum, less than a hair slower, but its sub-optimal TTK was better. It was a very lethal weapon out to a pretty long range and in just about every way an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

The pre-tuned DMR also outperformed the standard Magnum in most ways too. It possessed noticeably more aim assistance in both bullet and reticle magnetisms, longer hip-fire RRR, plus ADS RRR. The optimal TTK was the slowest (it was approximately the same as the H2BR at that time), but the sub-optimal TTK was on par with the pre-tuned H5BR which was quicker than the standard Magnum. The DMR was also a very lethal weapon covering a ton of range and again in just about every way it proved to be an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

These were reasons why during the 2017 HaloWC the strategy being executed by the top team(s) involved primarily using and maintaining control of the map’s rifles; in other words, teams were prioritizing them. The weapon tuning 343 performed not only looked to make the AR a more skillful weapon and aimed to turn the BR + gunfighter Magnum into a replacement loadout option (for the arena environment), but it also attempted to ensure that many of the other weapons would feature more prominent trade-offs that would make them clearly situational in their use instead of as pure upgrades to the standard Magnum.

It makes perfect sense that you would seek out the BR on maps in its pre-tuned state and that you would perform well with it. Everything I wrote previously in the last thread basically acknowledged that 343 stopped the tuning prematurely. There was room for further refinement modifications; though, much more minimal tunes overall. I would say to the BR, SMG, gunfighter Magnum, LR, tactical Magnum, the sniper weapons, and while I use to be someone who thought the standard Magnum was perfect as it was I’ve come around to believing it could use very minor tweaks too in-light of where the other weapons have been adjusted to better fit within the arena sandbox.

@HaloGoodBngieBd

Quote:
Yeah, Comfort caught my eye also. The possibility of the best players in the world using a weapon because of comfort as opposed to which one is better seems highly unlikely.
My point was that in the absence of a weapon being clearly better or superior than another they’ll choose comfort and convenience.

Quote:
That's how I found out the Magnum had become better than almost all precision rifles, I saw that the pros weren't picking up anything but the Light Rifle.
The Magnum is situationally “better” just as several of the other weapons are situationally “better”. It can be argued that in its current state perhaps the situational advantages granted to the standard Magnum are either too many or to great relative to many of the non-power weapons commonly found within the arena environment given the sandbox’s current state. Nevertheless, only the BR and SMG seem to be clearly inferior considering they’ve been designed to possess or fill similar situational roles to the standard Magnum and in a way the AR. In saying that, I’m relating the BR to the Magnum and the SMG to the AR regarding their purposes.

Quote:
Wouldn't they have continued using the BR if they were more comfortable with it?
If it had been made the loadout weapon and it was not outclassed by the standard Magnum and other precision weapons in just about every single way then perhaps.

Quote:
At that time in matchmaking, people were still using all of the other precision rifles, as well. After the final weapon tuning, I agree that Carbine and DMR have situational advantages. I've seen pros using them more often, but I don't think comfort is a factor
What I was implying was that since players are not often ensured to face an ideal situation relative to a particular weapon’s designed purpose they don’t tend to put a huge emphasis on seeking out and controlling those situational weapons like they would a power weapon or a weapon that’s basically a pure upgrade to the utility weapon. Knowing that they can remain competitive with their utility Magnum, a weapon they possess a lot of experience (aka comfort) with and is convenient (aka loadout), it allows them to find a greater use for it within a wider variety of situations than its actual design may suggest it would normally possess.
Are those the only two playlists that are planned to get a refresh?
Wooo! So excited! I will be grinding to Champion this coming season, the time has come!
eLantern wrote:
@NBK DarkWarlock

Quote:
false and you know it, i check my stat today and in arena before the tuning i had almost more kill with the br than the magnum, now i have less than 10 kill. the magnum is better and more consistent like the old br
What’s false and I know it?

The pre-tune BR outperformed the standard Magnum in just about every single way. It had the same hip-fire RRR while possessing a much bigger ADS RRR. The burst was incredibly tight which sort of mimicked the single round shots of the Magnum. Its recoil wasn’t anywhere near as dramatic as it is now and paired with the tight burst the weapon had fairly similar consistency to the Magnum too. Its optimal TTK was just about the same as the standard Magnum, less than a hair slower, but its sub-optimal TTK was better. It was a very lethal weapon and in just about every way an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

The pre-tuned DMR also outperformed the standard Magnum in most ways too. It possessed noticeably more aim assistance in both bullet and reticle magnetisms, longer hip-fire RRR, plus ADS RRR. The optimal TTK was the slowest (it was the same as the H2BR at that time), but the sub-optimal TTK was on par with the pre-tuned H5BR which was quicker than the standard Magnum. The DMR was also a very lethal weapon and again in just about every way it proved to be an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

These were reasons why during the 2017 HaloWC the strategy being executed by the top team(s) involved primarily using and maintaining control of the map’s rifles; in other words, teams were prioritizing them. The weapon tuning 343 performed not only looked to make the AR a more skillful weapon, but it also aimed to turn the BR into a replacement loadout option (for the arena environment) while ensuring many of the other weapons would feature more prominent trade-offs that would make them clearly situational in their use.

It makes perfect sense that you would seek out the BR on maps in its pre-tuned state and that you would perform well with it. Everything I wrote previously in the last thread basically acknowledged that 343 stopped the tuning prematurely. There was room for further modifications. I would say to the BR, SMG, gunfighter Magnum, tactical Magnum, and while I use to be someone who thought the standard Magnum was perfect as it was I’ve come around to believing it could use very minor tweaks too in-light of where the other weapons have been adjusted to fit.

@HaloGoodBngieBd

Quote:
Yeah, Comfort caught my eye also. The possibility of the best players in the world using a weapon because of comfort as opposed to which one is better seems highly unlikely.
My point was that in the absence of a weapon being clearly better than another they’ll choose comfort and convenience.

Quote:
That's how I found out the Magnum had become better than almost all precision rifles, I saw that the pros weren't picking up anything but the Light Rifle.
The Magnum is situationally “better” just as several of the other weapons are situationally “better”. Only the BR and SMG seem to be clearly inferior considering they’ve been designed to possess similar situational roles to the standard Magnum and in a way the AR. In saying that I’m relating the BR to the Magnum and the SMG to the AR.

Quote:
Wouldn't they have continued using the BR if they were more comfortable with it?
If it was made the loadout weapon and it was not outclassed by the Magnum in just about every single way then perhaps.

Quote:
At that time in matchmaking, people were still using all of the other precision rifles, as well. After the final weapon tuning, I agree that Carbine and DMR have situational advantages. I've seen pros using them more often, but I don't think comfort is a factor
What I was implying was that since players are not often ensured to face an ideal situation related to a particular weapon’s design they don’t tend to put an emphasis on seeking those situational weapons out like they would a power weapon. Knowing that they can remain competitive with their utility Magnum, a weapon they possess a lot of experience (aka comfort) with and is convenient, it allows them to find a greater use for it within a wider variety of situations than its actual design may suggest it would normally possess.
this make sense but i disagree the magnum is not situationally better, it is always better (99.99% is better to have the magnum) so now arena is boring.
What about when i placed 600CSR below my MMR, will that still happen next season or is this being looked into?
eLantern wrote:
@NBK DarkWarlock

Quote:
false and you know it, i check my stat today and in arena before the tuning i had almost more kill with the br than the magnum, now i have less than 10 kill. the magnum is better and more consistent like the old br
What’s false and I know it?

The pre-tune BR outperformed the standard Magnum in just about every single way. It had the same hip-fire RRR while possessing a much bigger ADS RRR. The burst was incredibly tight which sort of mimicked the single round shots of the Magnum. Its recoil wasn’t anywhere near as dramatic as it is now and paired with the tight burst the weapon had fairly similar consistency to the Magnum too. Its optimal TTK was just about the same as the standard Magnum, less than a hair slower, but its sub-optimal TTK was better. It was a very lethal weapon and in just about every way an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

The pre-tuned DMR also outperformed the standard Magnum in most ways too. It possessed noticeably more aim assistance in both bullet and reticle magnetisms, longer hip-fire RRR, plus ADS RRR. The optimal TTK was the slowest (it was approximately the same as the H2BR at that time), but the sub-optimal TTK was on par with the pre-tuned H5BR which was quicker than the standard Magnum. The DMR was also a very lethal weapon and again in just about every way it proved to be an upgrade to the standard Magnum.

These were reasons why during the 2017 HaloWC the strategy being executed by the top team(s) involved primarily using and maintaining control of the map’s rifles; in other words, teams were prioritizing them. The weapon tuning 343 performed not only looked to make the AR a more skillful weapon, but it also aimed to turn the BR into a replacement loadout option (for the arena environment) while ensuring many of the other weapons would feature more prominent trade-offs that would make them clearly situational in their use instead of as pure upgrades to the standard Magnum.

It makes perfect sense that you would seek out the BR on maps in its pre-tuned state and that you would perform well with it. Everything I wrote previously in the last thread basically acknowledged that 343 stopped the tuning prematurely. There was room for further refinement modifications; though, much more minimal tunes overall. I would say to the BR, SMG, gunfighter Magnum, LR, tactical Magnum, the sniper weapons, and while I use to be someone who thought the standard Magnum was perfect as it was I’ve come around to believing it could use very minor tweaks too in-light of where the other weapons have been adjusted to better fit within the arena sandbox.

@HaloGoodBngieBd

Quote:
Yeah, Comfort caught my eye also. The possibility of the best players in the world using a weapon because of comfort as opposed to which one is better seems highly unlikely.
My point was that in the absence of a weapon being clearly better or superior than another they’ll choose comfort and convenience.

Quote:
That's how I found out the Magnum had become better than almost all precision rifles, I saw that the pros weren't picking up anything but the Light Rifle.
The Magnum is situationally “better” just as several of the other weapons are situationally “better”. It can be argued that in its current state perhaps the situational advantages granted to the standard Magnum are either too many or to great relative to the rest of the arena sandbox in its current state. Nevertheless, only the BR and SMG seem to be clearly inferior considering they’ve been designed to possess or fill similar situational roles to the standard Magnum and in a way the AR. In saying that, I’m relating the BR to the Magnum and the SMG to the AR regarding their purposes.

Quote:
Wouldn't they have continued using the BR if they were more comfortable with it?
If it had been made the loadout weapon and it was not outclassed by the standard Magnum and other precision weapons in just about every single way then perhaps.

Quote:
At that time in matchmaking, people were still using all of the other precision rifles, as well. After the final weapon tuning, I agree that Carbine and DMR have situational advantages. I've seen pros using them more often, but I don't think comfort is a factor
What I was implying was that since players are not often ensured to face an ideal situation relative to a particular weapon’s designed purpose they don’t tend to put a huge emphasis on seeking out and controlling those situational weapons like they would a power weapon or a weapon that’s basically a pure upgrade to the utility weapon. Knowing that they can remain competitive with their utility Magnum, a weapon they possess a lot of experience (aka comfort) with and is convenient (aka loadout), it allows them to find a greater use for it within a wider variety of situations than its actual design may suggest it would normally possess.
Before, you were talking about pros, now you're talking about players. You only mentioned two factors, comfort and ammunition. Do you still believe that the best players in the world choose the Magnum over the precision rifles because of comfort?
Perfect
Hi all!

What with new maps being added to playlists...any talk of new maps being added to Warzone Firefight (or other Warzone maps being circulated into the Firefight playlist)?
So glad to see new maps in Slayer, this is great!!
And starting only 100 behind the rank is definitely an improvement if accuracy can be maintained (which it seems to be, minus a few odd examples).

But I really think that the maximum rank should be pushed to Onyx 1500, not Diamond 3.
The Diamond 3 cap just makes the matches seem terribly unfair (even if they aren't actually in MMR terms), which I think hurts the long-term health of the playlists.

I really hope you will consider reversing this decision and allowing people with a 1600+ MMR to place Onyx 1500 right away (even if that means that champion has to start at 1700 MMR).

ZaedynFel wrote:
We are aiming to roll the season towards the end of next week and have a couple of announcements to go along with that.
New Maps in SWAT and SlayerWe reviewed the maps we added to Team Arena and Community Slayer, plus previously used maps, and are making changes to SWAT and Slayer.

Here are the new lists that will go live with the season roll next week, according to our current plans (which are subject to change, but not likely at this point):

Slayer
  • Coliseum
  • The Rig
  • Plaza
  • Regret
  • Fathom
  • Truth
  • Empire
  • Eden
  • Torque
  • Stasis
  • Mercy (Refreshed)
  • White Cell
  • Pegasus II
  • Echelon
  • Russet
  • Fissure
  • Seclusion
  • Refuge
I'm a bit surprised to see Refuge in there though due to how bad it has been for "blowout games" in Arena.

... Or is that just selective memory on the part of the community?

@ZaedynFel
Could you tell us if Refuge Slayer is actually more statistically prone to unbalanced matches?

(particularly at higher MMR's since they're the ones who know how to abuse the maps, I wouldn't expect much difference at Platinum & below anyway).
SWATnums on Empire and Fathom would be great additions and I'm sure a lot of SWAT players would agree. I'm surprised you guys didn't add those maps in for that gametype.

SWAT H2 on Mercy should be added and possibly Regret too.

Also, WHERE is the map Tyrant? That was a very fun map to play SWAT on and the SWAT community misses it!
Now that TS2 is in full effect, and we can trust our rank as being indicative of our skill, I'm curious to know, in straightforward terminology, what each rank truly signifies about the player.

Maybe this is putting it crudely, but the way I intuit the ranks is as follows:

Bronze - Bad
Silver & Gold - Okay
Platinum - Good
Diamond - Very Good
Onyx - Great
Champion - Pro

Is that general structure I just outlined an accurate interpretation? If not, could you expand upon it a bit.

Thanks!
Dear 343,
If you were not aware, players overseas have been complaining about region locks that’s preventing the update from having effect on the matchmaking. Please address this as I am a victim of this as well for I am in the Philippines

-Xeon
Super happy about this cant wait for new maps!!!
Dear 343,
If you were not aware, players overseas have been complaining about region locks that’s preventing the update from having effect on the matchmaking. Please address this as I am a victim of this as well for I am in the Philippines

-Xeon
If you are referring to the MCC update, that has been addressed in a pinned topic by ske7ch in the MCC forums
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