Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – December 11

OP ZaedynFel

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RyInfinity wrote:
I am very frustrated with the fact that Grifball, Action Sack, Breakout, and more are all less popular than HaloWC preview, yet we give them more permanency and tenure than a Social Arena experience like Skirmish (which was horribly mismanaged, by the way).

Additionally, very disappointed to see that FFA and Doubles, despite a myriad of both good and bad setting refreshes, are still near the bottom of the list and are beaten out by competitive settings. These two playlists (and their respective player counts/game styles), have been the secondary avenues for competition in Halo for decades. FFA is renowned for identifying rising 4v4 talent, and Doubles has been a Halo trademark since Combat Evolved. Why are they sustained/updated so infrequently, and why are they not adopting the competitive rulesets from playlists that are more popular than them?

This list has honestly just cemented most of my feelings about Halo playlist management. Genuinely shocked in a lot of areas.
Maybe Grifball and/or Action Sack should just rotate into the seasonal playlists or something. Action Sack has some notable fun but sometimes you have to dredge through some terrible gametypes to find the good ones. WZ is definitely the most invested area for H5 so I am not too surprised it has a seat so high up. What kind of surprised me is how well BTB is doing despite WZ taking some players away into large format battles. I know they have pretty dramatic differences in play style but I am still a little surprised. Maybe it is also because I had so many Errors matching games in November but that has been running a lot better this week.
In my opinion, BTB should have never been part of the Arena experience. They should have used the resources used towards Warzone Assault (non-AI) to include BTB in the Warzone suite. Chop up/shrink the maps like you did for Warzone Assault, place Weapons/Vehicles/Objectives on the map, remove REQs and AI and boom—dev-made BTB maps. Call it "Warzone Classic". There was never a need to upset people by making a half--Yoinked!- Forge BTB playlist.

Grifball should be one of many Double XP Weekend playlists, and Action Sack should not be a hodgepodge of gametypes that are too different from one another. Cut them up into their own playlists and release as rotational or Double XP weekend experiences. Would love to play Battle Golf or Prop Hunt non-stop as their own playlist but I have never touched Action Sack out of fear of getting a lame gametype.
RyInfinity wrote:
RyInfinity wrote:
In my opinion, BTB should have never been part of the Arena experience. They should have used the resources used towards Warzone Assault (non-AI) to include BTB in the Warzone suite. Chop up/shrink the maps like you did for Warzone Assault, place Weapons/Vehicles/Objectives on the map, remove REQs and AI and boom—dev-made BTB maps. Call it "Warzone Classic". There was never a need to upset people by making a half--Yoinked!- Forge BTB playlist.

Grifball should be one of many Double XP Weekend playlists, and Action Sack should not be a hodgepodge of gametypes that are too different from one another. Cut them up into their own playlists and release as rotational or Double XP weekend experiences. Would love to play Battle Golf or Prop Hunt non-stop as their own playlist but I have never touched Action Sack out of fear of getting a lame gametype.
While I understand what you are saying Traditional WZ, WZA, and BTB play quite a bit differently. I agree that WZA consists of cut up versions of traditional WZ maps and they look cool for the most part but WZA assaults cut ups are more concerns with attack/defend balance per station compared to attack and defend balance of an entire map. This could potentially save some time with a cut up but it might be difficult to create a really balanced display out of a spliced WZ map. The secondary danger is that they might load cards into BTB which would make that community including myself beet red with anger.

I do agree with your Double XP weekend strategy. Grifball should be part of the rotation and not be a permanent playlist.
I would personally move SWAT to Social and get rid of Breakout or make Breakout another one of those Double XP specialty playlists.
Oh -Yoink- hot fix incoming! Fixes for game crashes AND the BR! Awesome to be heard and progress made. Thanks ZaedynFel!

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/halo-5-hotfix---dec-13/f39ba4f0-252a-460e-a710-293eb5919318/posts
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
This happens all the time. I just really get ripped about it sometimes! It happens daily almost, multiple JIP's back to back. I even team up and we all get JIP...lol. They really to get grip on this problem. I know it's because of the quitters, but hell all the rest of us suffer for it. Plus it didn't help putting golds and silvers against platinum,diamond and onyx.
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
SGO SMACK wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
My thoughts exactly. I almost responded something similar. I don't think BadDogg55 has ever been on the business end of a full harvest. Like when you're getting crushed in WZA but they let you cap the first armory and spawn-kill you hard for 6-more minutes.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
SGO SMACK wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
My thoughts exactly. I almost responded something similar. I don't think BadDogg55 has ever been on the business end of a full harvest. Like when you're getting crushed in WZA but they let you cap the first armory and spawn-kill you hard for 6-more minutes.
lol... Yeah, I've been farmed beyond recognition...hahaha. They plowed the fields and then some. And what happens when you get killed.... You get spawned right in the middle of the enemy, insta-killed... Over and over and over... What kind of idiot would spawn you in the middle of a radiation zone... hahaha
Just venting. The mm situation in AU is horrible right now and has been for a few months, I've had steam coming out of my ears. Quitters and smurfs in every single game (including me because can't find a game on Focused on main), high wait times, skewed matches, I don't think I've played a game with a full team on both sides for a couple of weeks. Had some particularly vicious matches lately and I'm super rusty so I'm waiting to offer proper feedback/contribution until I can claw my way out of the rage-cage. For now Im just venting and hoping we can consolidate the playlists, or somehow get some local population back and searching Focused.

Every time I switch to Balanced to play on the West Coast servers, the wait times and skill matchups are slightly better and there's less quitting, but I can only last about 10 games before the latency nearly completely erodes my will to continue - leads to another 1-2 week break from Halo. It's like half the matches are through a bad hop and it's hard to adjust match-to-match between the degree of latency, the aiming being sticky or not, how many shots get eaten, the double distance lunges, players who duck into cover having variable iframes, stormrifles and plasma rifles are instant encounter losses. Just unenjoyable.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
SGO SMACK wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
My thoughts exactly. I almost responded something similar. I don't think BadDogg55 has ever been on the business end of a full harvest. Like when you're getting crushed in WZA but they let you cap the first armory and spawn-kill you hard for 6-more minutes.
My bad I saw all of the JIP's and assumed. I didn't realize they weren't actually farmed. Usually a true torture farm might have a guy with 100+ kills and several others with 60+.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
SGO SMACK wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
My thoughts exactly. I almost responded something similar. I don't think BadDogg55 has ever been on the business end of a full harvest. Like when you're getting crushed in WZA but they let you cap the first armory and spawn-kill you hard for 6-more minutes.
My bad I saw all of the JIP's and assumed. I didn't realize they weren't actually farmed. Usually a true torture farm might have a guy with 100+ kills and several others with 60+.
Look at the ranks... Diamond, Platinum and Onyx against low level gold and silver... The JIP system needs some serious attention... Like get rid of it... You get JIP'ed into a game and suffer...lol.
Question,

Do you lose the same amount of experience if you lose the match legitimately, as opposed to quitting the match? I ask because I just got thinking, if it's say a 4-1 (you being the 1) and you quit because you don't want to waste your time (and the oppositions) do you lose more exp then you would if you say played out that 4-1?? If you do, I really don't think this should be the case. When teams are full I understand thy additional penalties for quitting or even when it's 4-3 as you can still win. Had one last night actually where me and my team were short handed and won ;) but 4-2 or 4-1 are just huge wastes of time I feel.... But anyways, does anyone know how this works?? Or If you haven't taken your mongoose home and your still around ZaedynFel, could you shed some light on this. If not, I'll just wait till the new year to ask, no worries at all :)

I know this doesn't have anything to do with anything that was mentioned in this week's topics, and I'm sure this has been answered before, but I just can't seem to remember...
Thorulfr wrote:
eclaireN7 wrote:
You say the population is doing well, but... what about in Australia/New Zealand?
Yeah I really doubt there's more than 100 people playing in a playlist at a time if I had to guess. Even peak times and popular playlists.
Even if it was three times that number it would be barely enough for a healthy population in a playlist.
Sad times. The game plays so poorly on overseas servers.
Thats basically what i'd expect to be the case. I'm just curious on hearing it from 343 themselves.
Question,

Do you lose the same amount of experience if you lose the match legitimately, as opposed to quitting the match? I ask because I just got thinking, if it's say a 4-1 (you being the 1) and you quit because you don't want to waste your time (and the oppositions) do you lose more exp then you would if you say played out that 4-1?? If you do, I really don't think this should be the case. When teams are full I understand thy additional penalties for quitting or even when it's 4-3 as you can still win. Had one last night actually where me and my team were short handed and won ;) but 4-2 or 4-1 are just huge wastes of time I feel.... But anyways, does anyone know how this works?? Or If you haven't taken your mongoose home and your still around ZaedynFel, could you shed some light on this. If not, I'll just wait till the new year to ask, no worries at all :)

I know this doesn't have anything to do with anything that was mentioned in this week's topics, and I'm sure this has been answered before, but I just can't seem to remember...
I can answer this one - you only lose the full 30 CSR (max loss) if you are the first to quit on either team. Every quitter after the first loses whatever they would lose if they had played the game out. I think this was changed maybe a year after release. And I really wish this change had been communicated better, because playing 4 on 1 is no fun for anyone, but some people still refuse to quit. This is a good example from your history, you can see the CSR losses:
http://halo5arena.com/match/2cef1188-b5f3-4673-a0d5-4f83af71e434/Dead-End-24?timeplayed=2017-12-15

The one complication is that if a game starts 3 on 4 (as sometimes happens), then the first to quit still gets the full 30 CSR penalty.
ExO BIGG wrote:
Oh -Yoink- hot fix incoming! Fixes for game crashes AND the BR! Awesome to be heard and progress made. Thanks ZaedynFel!

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/halo-5-hotfix---dec-13/f39ba4f0-252a-460e-a710-293eb5919318/posts
I wish I could report that the game freeze situation was fixed, but we're still seeing a very large percentage of BTB searches coming up with 16 players, and then immediatly drop to 15 or less (faster than any human could ever check emblems and dashboard so you know it's not people dodging.) It seemed better for 1 day after the hot fix, then might have even gotten worse.
Question,

Do you lose the same amount of experience if you lose the match legitimately, as opposed to quitting the match? I ask because I just got thinking, if it's say a 4-1 (you being the 1) and you quit because you don't want to waste your time (and the oppositions) do you lose more exp then you would if you say played out that 4-1?? If you do, I really don't think this should be the case. When teams are full I understand thy additional penalties for quitting or even when it's 4-3 as you can still win. Had one last night actually where me and my team were short handed and won ;) but 4-2 or 4-1 are just huge wastes of time I feel.... But anyways, does anyone know how this works?? Or If you haven't taken your mongoose home and your still around ZaedynFel, could you shed some light on this. If not, I'll just wait till the new year to ask, no worries at all :)

I know this doesn't have anything to do with anything that was mentioned in this week's topics, and I'm sure this has been answered before, but I just can't seem to remember...
I can answer this one - you only lose the full 30 CSR (max loss) if you are the first to quit on either team. Every quitter after the first loses whatever they would lose if they had played the game out. I think this was changed maybe a year after release. And I really wish this change had been communicated better, because playing 4 on 1 is no fun for anyone, but some people still refuse to quit. This is a good example from your history, you can see the CSR losses:
http://halo5arena.com/match/2cef1188-b5f3-4673-a0d5-4f83af71e434/Dead-End-24?timeplayed=2017-12-15

The one complication is that if a game starts 3 on 4 (as sometimes happens), then the first to quit still gets the full 30 CSR penalty.
Hey, thanks for the reply on this.

That all does sound familiar actually, but in that game Link that you used, the guy on my team got kicked before the match started. So why didn't the guy who quit first in the other team not lose the full 30 CSR? Maybe it doesn't matter when the first person quits/gets booted/disconnected etc. .....But yes I agree 100% with you that the matches where people who play out 4-2, 4-1 etc. are incredibly boring!!! I wish they didn't... But I think your right in that most people don't realize that you won't get banned or lose more CSR.
Hey, thanks for the reply on this.

That all does sound familiar actually, but in that game Link that you used, the guy on my team got kicked before the match started. So why didn't the guy who quit first in the other team not lose the full 30 CSR? Maybe it doesn't matter when the first person quits/gets booted/disconnected etc. .....But yes I agree 100% with you that the matches where people who play out 4-2, 4-1 etc. are incredibly boring!!! I wish they didn't... But I think your right in that most people don't realize that you won't get banned or lose more CSR.
Unless it was changed recently, there is a small window after the matchmaker has set the teams where someone could quit/disconnect from the match without a CSR penalty. Maybe that changed, but it's possible that the person in your match just left after the window closed.
I had another Comcast person out today (3rd person in 3 months). This time my situation was escalated so they sent out a guy who actually understood traceroutes, latency, ping spikes and gaming in general. He was showing me multiple traceroutes tests. Nothing unusual while on Comcast servers. All my issues happen when they leave Comcast servers. There is no shuddering down from Comcast. Sometime between 343 routing me to Seattle and then back to the East Coast, I'm hitting bumps. This guy was a lifetime PC gamer for 18 years but said he's never seen anything like Halo 5's routing to one side of America and then pinging all the way back to the other side. He said a more direct route would mitigate the chance of hitting some servers with issues and that the servers that I'm hopping to that are giving me issues are out of their control. He understood why the game code would shudder me when I had ping spikes in order to keep the experience smoother for others. He told me on the PC side, there are servers that will kick players as soon as they hit a ping spike because it ruins the game for everyone else.

The issue remains the same though. Based on the path 343 routes me, I'm hopping to a server that has issues. I need to be routed different. Question to Josh is why are we automatically routed to Seattle when it's the opposite direction of the server we eventually end up on and what can be done if we're hopping to bad servers outside of our ISPs control? If we had server selection, at least we could find out with a smoother path. When I'm on West Coast servers, I don't get ping spikes despite the higher overall latency so there's an issue going from Seattle to the East Coast.

Conclusion: servers that are causing issues are out of both 343's control and ISPs control. Only potential solution is server selection or having some control over the direction we're routed.
BadDogg55 wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
SGO SMACK wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
I'd like to know how even remotely this game is fair...Completely garbage... This happens quite often.
Wow that was some record breaking quitting on your teams side. Eventually you hit the JIP threshold so it wouldn't add more players. Then the opposition got out their rakes, gardening tools, and shovels to get some farming in. I notice when I go into WZ with 7 or 8 people it is almost always competitive. When I got in with 3 or less we typically get rolled up.
2 people with over 20 killls is a farm? Lol.
My thoughts exactly. I almost responded something similar. I don't think BadDogg55 has ever been on the business end of a full harvest. Like when you're getting crushed in WZA but they let you cap the first armory and spawn-kill you hard for 6-more minutes.
My bad I saw all of the JIP's and assumed. I didn't realize they weren't actually farmed. Usually a true torture farm might have a guy with 100+ kills and several others with 60+.
Look at the ranks... Diamond, Platinum and Onyx against low level gold and silver... The JIP system needs some serious attention... Like get rid of it... You get JIP'ed into a game and suffer...lol.
Yeah but every game type has a different MMR. My BTB is way stronger than my WZ. Because I entered way more WZ solo so my winning percentage is trash. Also large scale Social games would suffer greatly without JIP. Even though JIP is rough I make it a personal goal to change the tide. I would still say I lose 70% of JIP but I would work my backside off to make it close and the wins are WAY more gratifying because the other team thinks they have it in the bag.
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