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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – December 5

OP ZaedynFel

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Social and Warzone Matchmaking Update

We’ve gotten Social and Warzone matchmaking to a decent state with recent changes. It may be a tight enough at this point that we can test expanding the search faster than we do now.

In looking at the current settings we’ve decided to speed up how fast the new team balancing rule expands its tolerance in Social and Warzone. We were expanding over 150 seconds and are lowering that down to what the rest of the Social rules are at, which is 40 seconds.

The worst case we allow in the matchmaking isn’t changing, but by expanding the team balancing rule faster, it should give players more chances to get into matches than before by not holding them back for a match that was unlikely to happen.

We’ll be monitoring the results to inform further tuning.
As I mentioned before, I didn’t enjoy HCS Oddball due to the wide skill gaps. Since then I tried the updated playlist but my concern remains with typical games having me wildly outgunned (e.g. me Bronze 4 vs. team Platinum 1, Gold 5, Gold 5 and Silver 6). Will this change or is that all she wrote?

Also, I notice your Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking presentation from GDC 2016 is now available on YouTube.

Link: Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking Systems Design (1:01:10)
I notice your Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking presentation from GDC 2016 is now available on YouTube.

Link: Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking Systems Design (1:01:10)
A good watch.
Nice. When does/did this go into effect?

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Unknown wrote:
I have a question : is this new system will result in less balanced matches ? I mean is the balance will be sacrificed in favor of less waiting time ?
That is the trade-off. The proposed update sounds like it won't severely change balancing, but based on the description it sounds like there will be a slight increase in the prevalence of matches where the winning odds are 70-30%.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Social and Warzone Matchmaking UpdateWe’ve gotten Social and Warzone matchmaking to a decent state with recent changes. It may be a tight enough at this point that we can test expanding the search faster than we do now.

In looking at the current settings we’ve decided to speed up how fast the new team balancing rule expands its tolerance in Social and Warzone. We were expanding over 150 seconds and are lowering that down to what the rest of the Social rules are at, which is 40 seconds.

The worst case we allow in the matchmaking isn’t changing, but by expanding the team balancing rule faster, it should give players more chances to get into matches than before by not holding them back for a match that was unlikely to happen.

We’ll be monitoring the results to inform further tuning.
So does that mean after 40 seconds the search is expanded to its widest allowable parameters?
Are you expecting people to find matches almost instantly now? 40 seconds goes by pretty quick when you're searching and to have an outcome of a possible lopsided match as the result of going past that doesn't really sound desirable. I'm just picturing it like it was before with me matching dedicated parties nonstop.

Edit: I only had one game that was before the 40 second mark last night.
Maybe this has been answered in a previous topic, but in lieu of a population counter what if there was an “average search time” number viewable for each playlist? I can see positives and negatives for displaying this number - but I think it is a more important number than population count, which I know people often ask for.

I've seen other games show this value, so I'd be interested in how it affects player behavior. There may be existing research on this, I'm just not aware of it.
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Maybe this has been answered in a previous topic, but in lieu of a population counter what if there was an “average search time” number viewable for each playlist? I can see positives and negatives for displaying this number - but I think it is a more important number than population count, which I know people often ask for.

I've seen other games show this value, so I'd be interested in how it affects player behavior. There may be existing research on this, I'm just not aware of it.
The one in Heroes of the Storm is usually VERY optimistic. Would also be interested in hearing Josh's thoughts on this.
We're definitely getting matches faster, but there are still a lot of searches that come up full for a second and then immediately drop a player. Sometimes it backfills in time, but most times it doesn't. We've had some success (hit or miss though) hard resetting our xboxs which seems to keep us from getting frozen/dropped from the search, but obviously doesn't help when players outside our fireteam are dropped.
ZaedynFel wrote:
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Just out of curiosity could you provide an update on the state of in-house testing on the new TrueSkill system as in is it currently in progress?
Nice, but the old br return??
I cannot find Champion SWAT games. There is no Onyx/Champion players to be found for a high level competitive SWAT game. The few remaining competitive SWAT Players are running 1 Champ or 1 Onyx account with multiple new smurf accounts and playing against gold, platinum, & diamond players and stomping them. I have to make a new smurf account every 1-2 days and obliterate social SWAT players until I get to a high Diamond rank and can't get games anymore.

Halo 5 has been out for over 2 years now and there is no need for SWAT to be in the ranked playlists anymore since all the Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum and Diamond SWAT players play this game socially nowadays. Social SWAT is not a bad thing. It worked very well for Halo Reach and Halo 4. There was a lot of interaction in the SWAT community back in the day. I personally enjoyed getting to know and play with new people on a regular basis without having to make a new gamertag.
I agree with Online Dater, make SWAT social, takes faaaaar too long to match higher ranked players if you match them at all, also we need more maps please!
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ZaedynFel wrote:
Social and Warzone Matchmaking UpdateWe’ve gotten Social and Warzone matchmaking to a decent state with recent changes. It may be a tight enough at this point that we can test expanding the search faster than we do now.

In looking at the current settings we’ve decided to speed up how fast the new team balancing rule expands its tolerance in Social and Warzone. We were expanding over 150 seconds and are lowering that down to what the rest of the Social rules are at, which is 40 seconds.

The worst case we allow in the matchmaking isn’t changing, but by expanding the team balancing rule faster, it should give players more chances to get into matches than before by not holding them back for a match that was unlikely to happen.

We’ll be monitoring the results to inform further tuning.
Searching WZ solo (or in small fireteams) is a horrible matchmaking experience for me, unfortunately. I often search in fireteams so I wanted to see what the experience was like searching solo with these new parameters.

I tried searching solo (or in small fireteams) the past 2 days since these changes took effect, and the matchmaking fairness was among the worst I've seen. These parameters just do not work well for solo queue players (or small fireteams) with high MMR. Here's my recent game history of solo (or small fireteam searches), and i specify each game how many people I had in my fireteam.

Out of my past 15 games played, 12 were solo or with small fireteams - I've linked those below. Of those 12 games, 9 were very unbalanced, against high MMR 12-man fireteams. Only 2 of the 12 were remotely fair games. So basically I am matching high MMR 12-mans 75% of the time when i search WZ solo. That doesn't seem like the system is working as intended for solo queue players...
  1. (solo) JIP in a pretty much hopeless game
  2. (solo) Lose to a 12-man.
  3. (4-man) Match the same 12-man, though several of them lag out or quit early so we have an easy win. Would have probably been an awful game otherwise.
  4. (4-man) Lose to a 12-man.
  5. (solo) Lose to a 12-man.
  6. (solo) Lose to the same 12-man.
  7. (2-man) Lose to the same 12-man.
  8. (solo) Lose to a fireteam of unknown size. this was a reasonably fair game.
  9. (solo) Lose to an 11-man.
  10. (12-man) I join the 11-man and we win easily. - N/A since I'm in a 12-man.
  11. (12-man) Match a 12-man and lose a close game. This was a fair game. N/A since I'm in a 12-man.
  12. (12-man) Lose to another 12-man. This was fair too. N/A since I'm in a 12-man.
  13. (2-man) lose to unknown size fireteam. This was a winnable game.
  14. (2-man) farmed hard by a 12 man god squad. How did this match get made, please tell me?
  15. (2-man) match the same 12-man god squad that farmed me, I dashboard quit before the game starts.
TL;DR - I constantly match full fireteams while searching solo. If I'm not matching full fireteams (like when I solo search WZA), I simply get "unable to match" errors. Josh, I've posted this before, but if the MM platform can handle this, please consider making it easier for solo queue players and small fireteams to get into lower MMR games, so they aren't stuck between a rock and a hard place: either unable to match or matching 12-mans all the time. It's fine if you give me the worst teammates and make me carry, but matching 12-mans 75% of the time searching solo is just toxic.
As I mentioned before, I didn’t enjoy HCS Oddball due to the wide skill gaps. Since then I tried the updated playlist but my concern remains with typical games having me wildly outgunned (e.g. me Bronze 4 vs. team Platinum 1, Gold 5, Gold 5 and Silver 6). Will this change or is that all she wrote?

Also, I notice your Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking presentation from GDC 2016 is now available on YouTube.

Link: Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking Systems Design (1:01:10)
Can you link me a game or two like this so I can see for sure what it is?
ExO BIGG wrote:
Nice. When does/did this go into effect?
It's went live early morning before I wrote the post.
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