Skip to main content

Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – FEB 20

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. ...
  6. 5
Has anyone been playing with people who are ranked higher then you? I know that I keep getting that. I just wanted to play a game of swat that I don't play and is unranked and we lost to two platinums and one diamond. I just want to play slayer without playing against a plat. What has happened to Halo 5 after our recent update, I have to start playing in social which is more fair. Why do I keep playing with people that are a higher rank?
I got matched against 4 champions once - and in my team was no champion at all (we were Gold, Platinum, Diamond and Onyx).

In situations like this I wish there was a handicap system in place. For example make the champions reload more often or extend their respawn time. Or just don't let them find a game if there are no players in their CSR/MMR range. Let them feel exclusive (and lonely LOL).
Has anyone been playing with people who are ranked higher then you? I know that I keep getting that. I just wanted to play a game of swat that I don't play and is unranked and we lost to two platinums and one diamond. I just want to play slayer without playing against a plat. What has happened to Halo 5 after our recent update, I have to start playing in social which is more fair. Why do I keep playing with people that are a higher rank?
It's definitely not just you. Last night I had a game of Slayer where I was a Good 6 and there was a Diamond and Onyx 1700 on the opposing team. I can understand matching players who are, say, one rank tier above you, I mean, one of the best ways I've found to get better is to play against people who are better than you, however, I don't think a Gold vs Onyx matchup should ever happen. i know they said there's a difference between the points that more accurately represent your skill and the visual (Gold, Platinum, etc)representations, but that just seems like a really big gap. I mean there are two full rank tiers between Gold and Onyx, if my more accurate skill is closer to that leve (or as an Onyx, their skill is actually closer to Gold) then the visual representations of our ranks must be wildly inaccurate.
This sound like a case of boosting or smurfing, there is only 2 ways a match up like that should happen:

-The Onyx player is partied up with somone of around the rank of Silver in order to play easier games, or,

-The Onyx player has been carried to his rank and is actually playing at the level of Gold tier player.
I remember playing a game were I was in a group of golds vs a group of platinums.
Thats due to what happens underneath the hood of the H5 MM system. MMR changes faster than CSR and is what is used to get the most fair matchmade games. The golds have probably increased their MMR faster than their CSR and the plats might have lowered theirs and be on their way towards gold unless they can turn the trend around and start winning more. The visual representation of rank is gold vs plat but their MMR scores may be much closer. And one rank tier difference is normally not a big deal really.
So what I am getting out of this CSR vs MMR talk is that CSR is total BS and MMR is the one to go by (in fact, it seems like MMR is the one being used to match people in the first place). So if that is the case why not use MMR to determine your rank in the first place?
Has anyone been playing with people who are ranked higher then you? I know that I keep getting that. I just wanted to play a game of swat that I don't play and is unranked and we lost to two platinums and one diamond. I just want to play slayer without playing against a plat. What has happened to Halo 5 after our recent update, I have to start playing in social which is more fair. Why do I keep playing with people that are a higher rank?
It's definitely not just you. Last night I had a game of Slayer where I was a Good 6 and there was a Diamond and Onyx 1700 on the opposing team. I can understand matching players who are, say, one rank tier above you, I mean, one of the best ways I've found to get better is to play against people who are better than you, however, I don't think a Gold vs Onyx matchup should ever happen. i know they said there's a difference between the points that more accurately represent your skill and the visual (Gold, Platinum, etc)representations, but that just seems like a really big gap. I mean there are two full rank tiers between Gold and Onyx, if my more accurate skill is closer to that leve (or as an Onyx, their skill is actually closer to Gold) then the visual representations of our ranks must be wildly inaccurate.
This sound like a case of boosting or smurfing, there is only 2 ways a match up like that should happen:

-The Onyx player is partied up with somone of around the rank of Silver in order to play easier games, or,

-The Onyx player has been carried to his rank and is actually playing at the level of Gold tier player.
I remember playing a game were I was in a group of golds vs a group of platinums.
Thats due to what happens underneath the hood of the H5 MM system. MMR changes faster than CSR and is what is used to get the most fair matchmade games. The golds have probably increased their MMR faster than their CSR and the plats might have lowered theirs and be on their way towards gold unless they can turn the trend around and start winning more. The visual representation of rank is gold vs plat but their MMR scores may be much closer. And one rank tier difference is normally not a big deal really.
So, why not include MMR data in the carnage report? I understand players identify with CSR but most of us are not missing the fact that what we see in CSR can seem off from what occurs in matches. I can know what is causing the matchmaking but not see it in even the most simple quantifiable terms... oh, ok. player X clearly hasn't ranked down yet instead of just assuming it or something else entirely... like player X is losing matches AND performing poorly but is or was a superior player to this competition. He's only going to buck that so often, right? Meaning he may be legit performing at a lower level for some reason but shouldn't after or over another y or so games and I would see that.

In the former I can understand it. I read your updates. In the latter it chaps me to no end not knowing...to be unable...based on should-be available stats...to put this together myself. Also, if you guys can see all of this now then there is little doubt that you could be penalizing that behavior. Why are you not? The guys that are betraying teammates to the limit without being kicked to keep from winning? They are predictable. They'll play this way what appears to be 70% of the time to keep the perf stats low and then they'll destroy the other 30% or so. They're ltao about trolling/wrecking games that are never out of reach. In most cases because they are really putting in the effort to tank during placement I could see this easily after a relatively small sample of games of selective wrecking, no?

So, a familiar question arises... why let unranked play in ranked games? why let mr. casual guy impact the ranked service record of a dedicated player? As you said these people dwarf the others so devise another placement method...perhaps they are allowed to play each other as much as they want until placed. unrankeds with established records of x00 number of games or so can come into ranked. these aren't the people i'm after. It's the dupe xbox accounts with low SRs that are the problem. you can still base those matches on the available data and build the picture fast...just don't let them trash ranked play for those of us wanting to play good team halo. there are enough speed-bumps to that already.

Another idea in ranked matchmaking? K. Why not let us enter the Ranked container as we do now...but show us everyone else in there. There would be a table that shows overall CSR and MMR in the selected playlist for all players currently in lobby. Here the lobby is equivalent to the player clicking into say the SWAT playlist today. Currently, a matching process occurs and we're off. Instead of that just show us the people out there and allow us to party up or fill our parties to our content. A trick to doing it and leveraging what is in place is to take all of the players that would be looking for a game and limit/expand it to the user's search preference (bal,foc,exp). They can choose from that group based on those stats and ideally it wouldn't be too out-of-range (it may prove to provide better games...the games we want). From there the resulting match has the benefit of your logic re: stats but lets us roll our own to tune it. If the pool is right (and/or MMR comes to mean something to the population) then the games improve? hmm...

Can't find a game using this method? Ok. Why not!? ...just set your search prefs just like you do now. there is no change in the available people within your range and search prefs at that point in time from one method to the other. We all entered the playlist. Of course, there could be a button in that lobby for those without friends or time to party up to just "Match Me" in which case the current process initiates and you get a game. It's basically a hybrid model allowing solo-queues within the same pool as parties but the solo queue is requested. Games begin when ready to start. No change to quit punishment just that we'll see the adjustments of that in the data. on that note: s h o w me the number of times a player has quit this playlist. I used to quit horridly matched games but don't anymore for a number of reasons. It would be a form of shame on the player in the eyes of responsible, good players. You're going to quit? Nah. Give a form of amnesty to this by demonstrating a lesson learned: show total quits in this playlist apart from this season. I can see a player has quit some or even often but hasn't thus far. Perhaps a nice companion to the quit bans and rank penalties to shape up the problem.

Yes. Certain players won't get chosen but you will deter quits. The 'legit bad' players that don't get chosen must do what you do in Halo. You learn how to wreck your current level and become a better player and a more attractive teammate. You move up. Period. They don't have to be interested in that tho. They can just play they're brand of Halo without the probable game-quality concession by other players in the current scenario.

2 (or 3) cents
I'm very glad you created this thread (and in general "these" threads) Joshua, so thank you very much. There's so much ignorance amongst the community regarding how skill-based matchmaking works in Halo and to finally have one of the experts within 343i discussing it is very much appreciated.

By the way, I've always liked the idea of having both a Personal Ranking that moves based on individual in-game performance (Kills, Deaths, Assists, Headshots, Objectives, etc.) and one that is based on final match result (aka winning) with the "winning" one being visually prioritized and used primarily for team-based playlists. I look forward to hearing more about this topic in the future and whether or not you decide to do something that meshes both to a degree or provides both more or less separately.

Also, on a side note I'd really like to see Arena stat tracking separated between Social and Ranked, so that people can better gauge their performances and stat accumulation under the specific environments.

Playlist Feedback:

I'm really curious as to why you guys haven't seen the Social offering as a prime opportunity to provide playlists that are more specific in theme while more diverse in their actual offering of gametypes? In other words, I think the social playlist lineup is the ideal location for several mixed-bag playlists that satisfy particular so-called "itches" a player may have such as having a diverse lineup of (somewhat standard-ish) modes that focus solely on earning kills as the primary goal or perhaps a diverse lineup of (somewhat standard-ish) modes where the primary goal is to accomplish objectives that are not strictly slayer-based.

For example, I think turning the Social Fiesta Slayer Playlist into a mix-bag (Social) Team Slayer playlist that included all of these slayer-based modes:
  1. Slayer (medium high rotation)
  2. Super Fiesta (medium high rotation)
  3. Regicide (medium rotation)
  4. Shotty Snipers (medium low rotation)
  5. SWAT (medium low rotation)
...is an excellent method to maintain mode diversity (and perhaps bring back a past mode) under the social banner while fitting it all under a particular playlist theme (aka slayer-based objectives). It should work well with consolidation efforts while not necessarily taking away modes people may have interest in still being able to play within matchmaking.

Also, modifying the Skirmish Playlist so that it'd actually provide the community an option for playing ONLY non-slayer-based modes such as these:
  1. CTF (medium high rotation)
  2. Strongholds (medium high rotation)
  3. Assault (medium rotation)
  4. 1-Site Extraction (medium rotation)
  5. Oddball (medium low rotation)
  6. KotH (medium low rotation)
Lastly, I wanted to make a suggestion for all the game modes under the Social banner in that I believe a point scoring system (similar to Halo 4) would make a lot of sense here. Now, I doubt that it's something that could work out in Halo 5 at this point in time (maybe I'm wrong), but perhaps it's something that could be considered for Halo 6? Personally, I think a point system is fantastic way for all players to feel like they can contribute to the team's goal even if they're not racking up big KDA ratios or getting credit for scoring a non-slayer objective since even their minor efforts could be earning points towards the team's total point goal. Since the Social environment is suppose to be geared toward game-play enjoyment for all verses being super heavily influenced by the competitive spirit of the game I think the point system is helpful in accomplishing that. Anyways, just some thoughts.
This is one of the best updates I've seen on this forum, thanks for posting. Tons of interesting info there, looking forward to the changes.
Has anyone been playing with people who are ranked higher then you? I know that I keep getting that. I just wanted to play a game of swat that I don't play and is unranked and we lost to two platinums and one diamond. I just want to play slayer without playing against a plat. What has happened to Halo 5 after our recent update, I have to start playing in social which is more fair. Why do I keep playing with people that are a higher rank?
It's definitely not just you. Last night I had a game of Slayer where I was a Good 6 and there was a Diamond and Onyx 1700 on the opposing team. I can understand matching players who are, say, one rank tier above you, I mean, one of the best ways I've found to get better is to play against people who are better than you, however, I don't think a Gold vs Onyx matchup should ever happen. i know they said there's a difference between the points that more accurately represent your skill and the visual (Gold, Platinum, etc)representations, but that just seems like a really big gap. I mean there are two full rank tiers between Gold and Onyx, if my more accurate skill is closer to that leve (or as an Onyx, their skill is actually closer to Gold) then the visual representations of our ranks must be wildly inaccurate.
This sound like a case of boosting or smurfing, there is only 2 ways a match up like that should happen:

-The Onyx player is partied up with somone of around the rank of Silver in order to play easier games, or,

-The Onyx player has been carried to his rank and is actually playing at the level of Gold tier player.
So what I am getting out of this CSR vs MMR talk is that CSR is total BS and MMR is the one to go by (in fact, it seems like MMR is the one being used to match people in the first place). So if that is the case why not use MMR to determine your rank in the first place?
Dee Ferya wrote:
Has anyone been playing with people who are ranked higher then you? I know that I keep getting that. I just wanted to play a game of swat that I don't play and is unranked and we lost to two platinums and one diamond. I just want to play slayer without playing against a plat. What has happened to Halo 5 after our recent update, I have to start playing in social which is more fair. Why do I keep playing with people that are a higher rank?
It's definitely not just you. Last night I had a game of Slayer where I was a Good 6 and there was a Diamond and Onyx 1700 on the opposing team. I can understand matching players who are, say, one rank tier above you, I mean, one of the best ways I've found to get better is to play against people who are better than you, however, I don't think a Gold vs Onyx matchup should ever happen. i know they said there's a difference between the points that more accurately represent your skill and the visual (Gold, Platinum, etc)representations, but that just seems like a really big gap. I mean there are two full rank tiers between Gold and Onyx, if my more accurate skill is closer to that leve (or as an Onyx, their skill is actually closer to Gold) then the visual representations of our ranks must be wildly inaccurate.
This sound like a case of boosting or smurfing, there is only 2 ways a match up like that should happen:

-The Onyx player is partied up with somone of around the rank of Silver in order to play easier games, or,

-The Onyx player has been carried to his rank and is actually playing at the level of Gold tier player.
So, why not include MMR data in the carnage report? I understand players identify with CSR but most of us are not missing the fact that what we see in CSR can seem off from what occurs in matches.
Josh tried to explain this. First, it's NOT true that CSR is BS. CSR is derived from your MMR, albeit in a somewhat indirect/complicated manner. I believe MMR is designed to be a highly volatile (rapidly changing) metric, whereas CSR is designed to be a slower / "stickier" metric. It makes more sense for CSR to be the visible metric, since the other one is less meaningful in assessing your true skill.

The underlying issue (that I think you guys are bothered by) relates to whether or not the CSRs displayed are accurate assessments of player skill - and I think Josh is considering at least a few tweaks to make it more accurate:
  1. Make the seasons longer, so the CSR values settle to the accurate values and remain there for longer (then we could all see the values)
  2. Make the CSRs adjust more quickly in games with an "upset" result (lower ranked team beats higher ranked team) and slowly for "expected" results (higher ranked team wins)
  3. Implement measures to deter smurfing/boosting, such as slowly pulling together CSR values across a team (so it will be VERY hard to gain CSR if you're an onyx partied with a silver)
Great info.
Pls do something for smurfing. Yesterday a "platinum" player (SR15) did 50 kills, 24 assists, few deaths, 6000+ damage, in a CTF Fathom against diamonds/plat.....
Collet005 wrote:
Pls do something for smurfing. Yesterday a "platinum" player (SR15) did 50 kills, 24 assists, few deaths, 6000+ damage, in a CTF Fathom against diamonds/plat.....
I´m so sorry, I won´t be doing that again ;)

Anyways, I am not sure how smurfs could be targeted properly with a fix but yeah, they pretty much corrupt the entire ranking system. At second thought, you could probably find an algorithm to detect smurfs but that would have to be based on analyzing a fairly large amount of accounts you know for sure are smurfs in the first place.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. ...
  6. 5