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[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – FEB 28

OP ZaedynFel

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I was talking about that one casual player you always see in your game who goes 6 - 11 because he isn't trying to win.
Or maybe he had a bad game? That's a very presumptive statement that I can come up with a whole lot of reasons why someone might go 6-11 in a match.
The things is if you around a Diamond 2 or Platinum 6 I know these guys have the abillty to do alot better than how they performed. Most times ill ask people after a bad game what happend or try advise them where they were going wrong. Hell even in game ill still make the callouts or advise them where they are going wrong. 7/10 times the main reaction I get is "I'm just playing casually" or "I wont get any further in my rank now, so Im just playing for laughs". So my advice is simply gives us the old Social Playlist so these casual players have something to play without dragging others down.
Absolutely no "rank decay" please.
Bro you havent played Ranked since Fall 2016 Season, the reason we need rank decay is stop people just getting carried to Onyx or just grind to Onyx in FFA by coming 4th or 5th, for those players to never touch the playlist again.
Uhh yeah, on this account, you record-stalking weirdo.

And you don't "need" decay to deal with that, 1-3 month seasons serve the same purpose just as well.

Decay refers to daily/weekly losses, which is stupid, annoying and demotivating as all hell. It's the most annoying possible solution to a problem that has tons of other options.
LOL I checked your service record to see if your one of those guys who get carried to Onyx and leaves that playlist for the rest of the season just so they can say "Yep Im Onyx behold my glory scrubs!" and then I wondered why someone who hasnt bothered to get ranked is complaining. And too be fair if you are just going for Onyx to never play that Playlist again cos Onyx level playing why should you be allowed to stay there if your not even going to try get better? Hence why I think a week inactivity in a playlist causing decay to your CSR would be suitable.
Absolutely no "rank decay" please.
Bro you havent played Ranked since Fall 2016 Season, the reason we need rank decay is stop people just getting carried to Onyx or just grind to Onyx in FFA by coming 4th or 5th, for those players to never touch the playlist again.
Uhh yeah, on this account, you record-stalking weirdo.

And you don't "need" decay to deal with that, 1-3 month seasons serve the same purpose just as well.

Decay refers to daily/weekly losses, which is stupid, annoying and demotivating as all hell. It's the most annoying possible solution to a problem that has tons of other options.
LOL I checked your service record to see if your one of those guys who get carried to Onyx and leaves that playlist for the rest of the season just so they can say "Yep Im Onyx behold my glory scrubs!" and then I wondered why someone who hasnt bothered to get ranked is complaining. And too be fair if you are just going for Onyx to never play that Playlist again cos Onyx level playing why should you be allowed to stay there if your not even going to try get better? Hence why I think a week inactivity in a playlist causing decay to your CSR would be suitable.
Why do you care if other people have a certain rank?
Why do you think someone's service record would invalidate their opinion?
Why are you using the term "complaining" in a feedback thread?

The point of decay and resets isn't to feed anyone's ego, it's to prevent currently-active players from being locked out of higher ranks in the event of the usage of a percent-distribution ranking system and/or leaderboards.

The current system only has one of those two issues, so the "people hitting 1500 Onyx and sitting on it problem" that you're talking about has nothing to do with the purpose of resets. 343 doesn't care if you feel bad that other players have the same rank, they care about keeping the ranks accurate & keeping people coming back.

Also, the "getting carried to Onyx" and "4th/5th/6th FFA grinding" issues in general are somewhat separate, as they don't require any kind of reset or decay in order to address. That's what the previous feedback thread was about. Those can be addressed in any ranking system, resets don't need affect their fixes. Using a decay system to address ranks that were inaccurate in the first place is just a "brute-force" way of dealing with it. It's the lazy-man's work-around which doesn't actually address the core cause.

A 1-week inactivity decay wouldn't be so bad though, I could see that being more balanced. It's the punishing of ALL players on a daily or intra-week basis through usage of an ongoing decay that's annoying. Even so, I think seasonal resets with rewards at the end would be more likely to keep people coming back by having a real "goal" with an end and start point to aim for.
Absolutely no "rank decay" please.
Bro you havent played Ranked since Fall 2016 Season, the reason we need rank decay is stop people just getting carried to Onyx or just grind to Onyx in FFA by coming 4th or 5th, for those players to never touch the playlist again.
Uhh yeah, on this account, you record-stalking weirdo.

And you don't "need" decay to deal with that, 1-3 month seasons serve the same purpose just as well.

Decay refers to daily/weekly losses, which is stupid, annoying and demotivating as all hell. It's the most annoying possible solution to a problem that has tons of other options.
LOL I checked your service record to see if your one of those guys who get carried to Onyx and leaves that playlist for the rest of the season just so they can say "Yep Im Onyx behold my glory scrubs!" and then I wondered why someone who hasnt bothered to get ranked is complaining. And too be fair if you are just going for Onyx to never play that Playlist again cos Onyx level playing why should you be allowed to stay there if your not even going to try get better? Hence why I think a week inactivity in a playlist causing decay to your CSR would be suitable.
Why do you care if other people have a certain rank?
Why do you think someone's service record would invalidate their opinion?
Why are you using the term "complaining" in a feedback thread?

The point of decay and resets isn't to feed your superiority complex, it's to prevent currently-active players from being locked out of higher ranks in the event of the usage of a percent-distribution ranking system and/or leaderboards.

The current system only has one of those two issues, so the "people hitting 1500 Onyx and sitting on it problem" that you're talking about has nothing to do with the purpose of resets. 343 doesn't care if you feel bad that other players have the same rank, they care about keeping the ranks accurate & keeping people coming back.

A 1-week inactivity decay wouldn't be so bad though, I could see that being more balanced. It's the punishing of ALL players on a daily or intra-week basis through usage of an ongoing decay that's annoying. Even so, I think seasonal resets with rewards at the end would be more likely to keep people coming back by having a real "goal" with an end and start point to aim for.
1- I dont care about your rank only that you earn it, as you said 343 care that ranks are kept accurate by just sitting on it you are obstructing players attempting to climb the CSR leaderboards to the rank of High Onyx/Champion. Players going inactive for whole seasons after being carried causes these obstruction as well as the fact it is a misrepresentation of rank.

2- I only expect people who get carried to Onyx to object as aggressive as you are, and checking stats and history is a good way to find out.

3- Would the term "Aggressively Objecting" be better for you? lol

Also I would like to see where you get the "superiority complex" from? And either remove the insult or explain your aggressive behaviour.
Absolutely no "rank decay" please.
Bro you havent played Ranked since Fall 2016 Season, the reason we need rank decay is stop people just getting carried to Onyx or just grind to Onyx in FFA by coming 4th or 5th, for those players to never touch the playlist again.
Uhh yeah, on this account, you record-stalking weirdo.

And you don't "need" decay to deal with that, 1-3 month seasons serve the same purpose just as well.

Decay refers to daily/weekly losses, which is stupid, annoying and demotivating as all hell. It's the most annoying possible solution to a problem that has tons of other options.
LOL I checked your service record to see if your one of those guys who get carried to Onyx and leaves that playlist for the rest of the season just so they can say "Yep Im Onyx behold my glory scrubs!" and then I wondered why someone who hasnt bothered to get ranked is complaining. And too be fair if you are just going for Onyx to never play that Playlist again cos Onyx level playing why should you be allowed to stay there if your not even going to try get better? Hence why I think a week inactivity in a playlist causing decay to your CSR would be suitable.
Why do you care if other people have a certain rank?
Why do you think someone's service record would invalidate their opinion?
Why are you using the term "complaining" in a feedback thread?

The point of decay and resets isn't to feed your superiority complex, it's to prevent currently-active players from being locked out of higher ranks in the event of the usage of a percent-distribution ranking system and/or leaderboards.

The current system only has one of those two issues, so the "people hitting 1500 Onyx and sitting on it problem" that you're talking about has nothing to do with the purpose of resets. 343 doesn't care if you feel bad that other players have the same rank, they care about keeping the ranks accurate & keeping people coming back.

A 1-week inactivity decay wouldn't be so bad though, I could see that being more balanced. It's the punishing of ALL players on a daily or intra-week basis through usage of an ongoing decay that's annoying. Even so, I think seasonal resets with rewards at the end would be more likely to keep people coming back by having a real "goal" with an end and start point to aim for.
1- I dont care about your rank only that you earn it, as you said 343 care that ranks are kept accurate by just sitting on it you are obstructing players attempting to climb the CSR leaderboards to the rank of High Onyx/Champion. Players going inactive for whole seasons after being carried causes these obstruction as well as the fact it is a misrepresentation of rank.

2- I only expect people who get carried to Onyx to object as aggressive as you are, and checking stats and history is a good way to find out.

3- Would the term "Aggressively Objecting" be better for you? lol

Also I would like to see where you get the "superiority complex" from? And either remove the insult or explain your aggressive behaviour.
I'm not trying to be aggressive as a whole, just the account-stalking comment because it's intellectually dishonest to dismiss a person's opinion based on stats.

When I say "your superiority complex" I meant the general/plural form of the word ie. "peoples' superiority complex," not you specifically. It's just the English language being confusing by having the same word for both singular & plural, it wasn't meant as an insult. I edited it to be more clear.

Other than that, I'm just objectively and quickly get to the point that you are comparing apples & oranges.
You seem to be under the misunderstanding that inactive 1500 Onyx players are preventing anyone from ranking up. That is not the case, it's a separate issue to why a reset mechanism would be needed. Under the current system, people sitting on low onyx ranks only affects peoples' feelings (hence the relevance of the superiority comment) rather than anyone else's ranks.
Look I dont want to bring that "git gud scrub" mentality but really Ranked is for those people who are truly competitive, those who want to prove they can be better than everyone else and the grind through the ranks is apart of that, the whole you ranked higher than you are really just shows you have abillity to play at that level and maintaining that rank and/or ranking higher is down to you trying to better.

Also the Season Reset is actually needed with ranking systems, how many Onyx players are there in Arena that have got their bragging rights and never played that playlist again, nevermind the ones that got carried, this also allows competitive players a chance to reach and try maintain their Champion ranks, without the reset the CSR scores for each current champion would just keep climbing denying other players a chance to catch up. And the pushed abit rank after placement gives you the chance to prove you can still perform as well as you did the previous season, for instance if Player X got to D1 and maintains his ranking the previous season a placement in Plat 5 should be no problem for him to push on to D1 again and act as a refresher for Diamond Tier playing, however if Player X is struggling in Plat 5 and is losing games it generates a learning curve and will be forced to get better as a player if he truely want's to get higher rankings.

IMO the fun in ranked doesn't come from winning every game, it comes from winning those intense neck and neck games where the scores are like 48 - 49 and you clutch that double kill and win, those struggles are what make ranked fun for me. Hell even if I lose at 45 - 50 Ill have fun because it was a close game and you can say GG and learn to play better next game. To be honest if your not wanting to chase that goal of getting Champion Rank or willing to grind for it you should probably stick with Social, hence why I have suggest the old Social Playlists from Halo 3 come back and give the less competitive player more to play. **Cough Cough** Social Slayer **Cough Cough**
Actually, ranked is for competitive players who want to prove themselves, but it's also for players who aren't so interested in being the best, but want to play against people of similar skill.

for a low skilled player who doesn't want to get crushed all the time, ranked is the best place to play, because they'll get matched against other low skilled players.
So why not just play social then? With the amount of smurf accounts around now days the chance of losing for lower skill player is probably around the same as a Gold player facing a Platinum player. Not only that but many lower tier player that play dont even play seriously which can cost the ranking of other players.
How is playing social a solution? Players of all skill ranges use that playlist and matches aren't made up by skill.

You have to understand, People can play seriously, but still be bad at the game. If this person plays ranked, they will most likely get matched against other players who also aren't good at the game.

The bronze and silver teirs exist so that these people can play and learn without getting stomped by people who are much better. The whole point of the ranking system is to get close matches, regardless of your skill level.

Social doesn't match players by skill. Close matches isn't a goal of the system. So if you have bronze talent, you might find yourself going up against people of diamond and onyx skill, in teams of 4, who social to warmup. There are so many tryhards and grieffers in social it isn't even funny. That's a terrible experience for someone who's trying to spar against comparable opponents.
You misunderstand what I am saying, if your trying to get better and progress obviously your going to play Ranked and play to get better. I am talking about due to lack of Social Playlist selection alot of casuals play ranked not too interested getting better or winning and just play for playing holding back other serious players ans people trying to get better.

Also if anything playing social can help due to playing a variety of skill levels, if your like a lot of players looking at your own gameplay footage you can see where you going wrong and what the other player who did better than you were doing and maybe pick up a few things.
I don't misunderstand you, i just disagree.

Social will never be able to satisfy players who come for the close matches. Its for people who really dont care about the quality of a given matchup.

Ranked isnt JUST for people who want to progress. Its also for people who want to constantly have opponents who are similar to themselves.

A bronze player doesnt have to want to progress to Champ. They just want to play against other bronze level players. And that's something social playlists can't help with.

I don't disagree that the social offering needs to improve. I just disagree with your assessment of what a ranked playlist is for.
Social will never be able to satisfy players who come for the close matches. Its for people who really dont care about the quality of a given matchup.
Not entirely. I don't think people are expecting it to be like ranked, but they also don't want blow out matches because those aren't fun. The matches need a little bit of balance to them to help prevent that, but the problem for the most part is 343 does a poor job at doing that.
RyInfinity wrote:
Hopefully I can snag your attention once more, Josh, but I'm really interested in your response.

How do you feel about 343's choice to introduce the ability to drop between divisions? I think you mentioned something about a buffer period for the 6/1 tiers in one of your original posts but I'm curious which one you would rather have by default (Locked Divisions vs Droppable Divisions)

Personally, as long as MMR is active in the background, I don't see the reason to include this method of ranking. Division locking provides more meaning to rating progression and having a player float between two divisions repeatedly is very jarring and odd for skill representation. Granted, there are a lot of factors that can play into this debate, but those factors aren't even present in Halo 5 (Seasonal rewards, promotion matches, etc.)

LITTLE TE wrote:
Please just bring back the 1-50 ranking system. Much more appealing than these tiers.
Agreed. Halo 2's ranking system is easily the best out of all the Halo games, and it isn't even close.
This is a very arbitrary statement, you can't really say that without presenting an argument as to why that is true.

1-50 systems are flawed (forced grind causes inaccurate matching in lower ranks, high-end skill has no endgame/differentiation, visual skill differential is much smaller, etc.). There is a reason every competitive game uses rating/division systems.
LOL, and there's a reason why the population has gone down in Reach, 4, and 5, and no 1-50 ranking system is a part of that.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Social will never be able to satisfy players who come for the close matches. Its for people who really dont care about the quality of a given matchup.
Not entirely. I don't think people are expecting it to be like ranked, but they also don't want blow out matches because those aren't fun. The matches need a little bit of balance to them to help prevent that, but the problem for the most part is 343 does a poor job at doing that.
The whole concept behind social removes the ability to prevent blowouts.

It's supposed to be a mode where people of all skill levels can come together and play without the stress of investing heavily in one's individual performance.

If I'm a champ, but i want to play with my little brother who's a gold, we go into social.

This inherently means good players are going to come up against bad players, and the teams won't likely be balanced. Sure the win/loss won't mean anything, but it won't amount to fun matches for the less skilled players.

There's little 343 can do. they launched the game with hidden skill matching (so matches could be balanced) in unranked modes and the community complained.
So if someone is a Diamond 4 with a 64.7% win rate wouldn't you say that matchmaking is NOT doing a good job?
Isn't MM supposed to be designed to match people in a way that the outcome is as close to 50% as possible?
A deviation to 64.7% surely isn't a sign of accomplishing that 50% goal.
The only exceptions I would consider valid for example would be a champion 1 with a significantly higher than 50% win rate or a Bronze 1 with a significantly lower than 50% win rate.
So if someone is a Diamond 4 with a 64.7% win rate wouldn't you say that matchmaking is NOT doing a good job?
Isn't MM supposed to be designed to match people in a way that the outcome is as close to 50% as possible?
That only makes sense if they've played like <40 games in the season. Maybe they got ranked initially too low, and the ranking algorithm hasn't caught them up to their true rank yet.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
snip
That only makes sense if they've played like <40 games in the season. Maybe they got ranked initially too low, and the ranking algorithm hasn't caught them up to their true rank yet.
Exactly my point - the matchmaking system is flawed. Badly flawed.
Here's another one: Onyx 1809 - 69 games played (more than the 40 you mentioned) - 66.6% win rate
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