Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – January 29

OP ZaedynFel

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Social and Warzone Tweaks
As some of you have already noticed, we tweaked Super Fiesta, Quick Play, Warzone, Big Team Battle, Grifball, and Warzone Assault to help higher-skilled players and larger high-skilled FireTeams get into matches more consistently. We’ve heard some feedback that it’s so fast now, it would be OK to back off and let it search a little longer. In analyzing the trade-offs, it turns out the amount of time we would have to wait for a noticeable improvement in quality isn’t worth it.

We’ll be doing a similar evaluation for the Ranked playlists, though it will take longer because the matchmaking system has an indirect effect on the CSR system.


Playlist Popularity

Here’s an update on playlist popularity, using the last week.

Super Fiesta
Slayer
Heroic Warzone Firefight
Warzone
Quick Play
Infection
Big Team Battle
Legendary Warzone Firefight
Castle Wars
SWAT
HaloWC 2018
Action Sack
Doubles
Team Arena
Snipers
Free for All
Breakout
Mythic Warzone Firefight
Warzone Assault
Grifball
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Played some more WZA this morning. The good news is that I'm finding games searching solo on expanded, which is a big change. Many of them were playable though typically not super close, but whatever.

The bad news is that the looser parameters are again allowing To12s to band together and find games against far lesser players. I matched into a horrendous farm, and saw from their recent game histories on waypoint that this team had been doing some really blatant WZA farming much of the morning (letting the enemy cap deliberately to keep farming, etc.).

Overall, I guess this was a net positive for me, since I can at least play now, and just quit out of the toxic matches. But there's still a problem here.
In the end, I feel like this issue will always be a problem at some level until we change the gameplay itself to make farming not worth it.But as far as temporary solutions go, this is the most we can do in the short term with our current resources. The incoming stuff is going to take a lot of work that we don't want to get delayed.
Fair enough, good luck!

BTW, farming aside, it's been nice to play some slightly less "contested" or close/sweaty games in WZA, whether we win or lose. It gets draining to have every WZA game be super close for 12+ minutes in a social playlist. You discussed that a bit in your GDC talk, actually - leads to sweat fatigue.

Maybe in a ranked playlist you'd want every game to be 50-50, but it's nice to have some 70-30s and 80-20s in a social playlist sometimes, I think.
I don’t know if you have any control of this, but I hear many want military ranks instead of gold, platinum, etc. Is there any reason not to add them in?
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Played some more WZA this morning. The good news is that I'm finding games searching solo on expanded, which is a big change. Many of them were playable though typically not super close, but whatever.

The bad news is that the looser parameters are again allowing To12s to band together and find games against far lesser players. I matched into a horrendous farm, and saw from their recent game histories on waypoint that this team had been doing some really blatant WZA farming much of the morning (letting the enemy cap deliberately to keep farming, etc.).

Overall, I guess this was a net positive for me, since I can at least play now, and just quit out of the toxic matches. But there's still a problem here.
In the end, I feel like this issue will always be a problem at some level until we change the gameplay itself to make farming not worth it.But as far as temporary solutions go, this is the most we can do in the short term with our current resources. The incoming stuff is going to take a lot of work that we don't want to get delayed.
Fair enough, good luck!

BTW, farming aside, it's been nice to play some slightly less "contested" or close/sweaty games in WZA, whether we win or lose. It gets draining to have every WZA game be super close for 12+ minutes in a social playlist. You discussed that a bit in your GDC talk, actually - leads to sweat fatigue.

Maybe in a ranked playlist you'd want every game to be 50-50, but it's nice to have some 70-30s and 80-20s in a social playlist sometimes, I think.
I might agree if you swapped the 80-20s for 60-40s and if the 70-30s only occurred in extremely rare cases; otherwise, I'll take sweaty 50/50 probability matches all day long - every day. The sweat fatigue is a thousand times better than getting crapped-on fatigue.
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Played some more WZA this morning. The good news is that I'm finding games searching solo on expanded, which is a big change. Many of them were playable though typically not super close, but whatever.

The bad news is that the looser parameters are again allowing To12s to band together and find games against far lesser players. I matched into a horrendous farm, and saw from their recent game histories on waypoint that this team had been doing some really blatant WZA farming much of the morning (letting the enemy cap deliberately to keep farming, etc.).

Overall, I guess this was a net positive for me, since I can at least play now, and just quit out of the toxic matches. But there's still a problem here.
In the end, I feel like this issue will always be a problem at some level until we change the gameplay itself to make farming not worth it.But as far as temporary solutions go, this is the most we can do in the short term with our current resources. The incoming stuff is going to take a lot of work that we don't want to get delayed.
Fair enough, good luck!

BTW, farming aside, it's been nice to play some slightly less "contested" or close/sweaty games in WZA, whether we win or lose. It gets draining to have every WZA game be super close for 12+ minutes in a social playlist. You discussed that a bit in your GDC talk, actually - leads to sweat fatigue.

Maybe in a ranked playlist you'd want every game to be 50-50, but it's nice to have some 70-30s and 80-20s in a social playlist sometimes, I think.
I might agree if you swapped the 80-20s for 60-40s and if the 70-30s only occurred in extremely rare cases.
I think 70-30 and 80-20 are a lot closer than you realize. 80-20 means the worse team will still win 1 in 5 times! That's still got the potential to be a pretty sweaty game, it's not like that game is going to be a blowout. An 80-20 game may hinge on some key moment, like an early Wasp gets hijacked and turns the tides, or someone loses an early whiplash to the other team's best player. Or the best player on one team has a bad start and doesn't carry hard enough, so the "worse" team gets a bunch of vehicles out and the "better" team can't counter.

Blowouts and farms probably have ratios more like 99% - 1% win probabilities, or worse.

Also, remember, you would also be on the winning side of the coin as much as you'd be on the losing side - occasionally winning easy games. Pull a fun REQ you don't usually call, do something silly, etc.
Any word on restoring Breakout to its former glory?
Is there anything in the pipeline to do a BtB refresh?
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Played some more WZA this morning. The good news is that I'm finding games searching solo on expanded, which is a big change. Many of them were playable though typically not super close, but whatever.

The bad news is that the looser parameters are again allowing To12s to band together and find games against far lesser players. I matched into a horrendous farm, and saw from their recent game histories on waypoint that this team had been doing some really blatant WZA farming much of the morning (letting the enemy cap deliberately to keep farming, etc.).

Overall, I guess this was a net positive for me, since I can at least play now, and just quit out of the toxic matches. But there's still a problem here.
In the end, I feel like this issue will always be a problem at some level until we change the gameplay itself to make farming not worth it.But as far as temporary solutions go, this is the most we can do in the short term with our current resources. The incoming stuff is going to take a lot of work that we don't want to get delayed.
Fair enough, good luck!

BTW, farming aside, it's been nice to play some slightly less "contested" or close/sweaty games in WZA, whether we win or lose. It gets draining to have every WZA game be super close for 12+ minutes in a social playlist. You discussed that a bit in your GDC talk, actually - leads to sweat fatigue.

Maybe in a ranked playlist you'd want every game to be 50-50, but it's nice to have some 70-30s and 80-20s in a social playlist sometimes, I think.
I might agree if you swapped the 80-20s for 60-40s and if the 70-30s only occurred in extremely rare cases.
I think 70-30 and 80-20 are a lot closer than you realize. 80-20 means the worse team will still win 1 in 5 times! That's still got the potential to be a pretty sweaty game, it's not like that game is going to be a blowout. An 80-20 game may hinge on some key moment, like an early Wasp gets hijacked and turns the tides, or someone loses an early whiplash to the other team's best player. Or the best player on one team has a bad start and doesn't carry hard enough, so the "worse" team gets a bunch of vehicles out and the "better" team can't counter.

Blowouts and farms probably have ratios more like 99% - 1% win probabilities, or worse.

Also, remember, you would also be on the winning side of the coin as much as you'd be on the losing side - occasionally winning easy games. Pull a fun REQ you don't usually call, do something silly, etc.
I hear what you're saying, but any match that has a prediction probability favoring one team over another based on player skill that's greater than 2 out of 3 games seems fairly crappy from my perspective which is why I'm not a huge fan of even the 70:30 ratio and why I mention it as acceptable under rare circumstances. While most matches that aren't of the 99% percentile can be broken down to a collection of pivotal or critical moments that swing matches it often correlates to player skills which end up dictating these probabilities. Player skills often leverage those moments to favor one side over the other more often than many will find enjoyable when you get beyond the 1:3 probability -- at least from my perspective. For me personally, playing in matches that carry win or loss probabilities that are above 67% for one side over the other is just undesirable -- there's a player to player skill differential that's likely not too far out of balance when the odds never exceed 67% one way or the other which leads to pivotal/critical moments occurring for both teams and throughout a full match.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Playlist Popularity
This week's changes:

1 - 12. No changes.
13. Doubles: Previous Rank: 14 -- Change: 1
14. Team Arena: Previous Rank: 13 -- Change: -1
15. Snipers: Previous Rank: 16 -- Change: 1
16. Free-for-All: Previous Rank: 18 -- Change: 2
17. Breakout: no change
18. Mythic Warzone Firefight: Previous Rank: 15 -- Change: -3
19. Warzone Assault: no change
20. Grifball: no change

Edit: @ZaedynFel, would it be possible to provide population percentages for some of these playlists?
Hey Josh I have a question pertaining to accuracy percentage. After a game when we look at our stats I find it strange my accuracy is usually the highest but yet I get very poor hit registration. Is that accuracy percentage what the server is seeing or is that what the xbox is seeing? I'm just trying to understand this because I find it very strange when I see players with a lot of kills and very little deaths and there accuracy is like 28%-32%. I'm confused about this because it really makes no sense to me. I see this in quite a few games. Just wanted to get your take on this. Thanks!
Still baffles me that Castle Wars is a permanent playlist.

EDIT: It isn't, I see now. Sorry.
Is there anything in the pipeline to do a BtB refresh?
Lol - they barely had the staff to make the tweaks to seach parameters. I would seriously doubt any real changes come to BTB unless its a refresh of old maps, unfortunately
Flame Sama wrote:
Still baffles me that Castle Wars is a permanent playlist.
Did they announce this?
Most of the game needs a refresh to be honest. Those same playlists have been at the bottom since he started posting the lists and other ones have their own issues as well. It's my bias, but I would like BTB and Firefight to get a refresh if there ever is one.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
It's my bias, but I would like BTB and Firefight to get a refresh if there ever is one.
I don't think it's just your bias. I would say BTB needs a refresh because, as I pointed out in another thread, most of the maps cater heavily to CQC and don't have anything for vehicles besides a Ghost and a Warthog, and firefight badly needs a refresh because of the whole "weapons being useless" issue. The latter in particular is a glaring issue in my opinion, especially considering how Heroic WZFF is consistently near the top of the playlist popularity list. Maybe Action Sack could use a refresh too, but I think you're exactly right when you say BTB and firefight need it most.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
It's my bias, but I would like BTB and Firefight to get a refresh if there ever is one.
I don't think it's just your bias. I would say BTB needs a refresh because, as I pointed out in another thread, most of the maps cater heavily to CQC and don't have anything for vehicles besides a Ghost and a Warthog, and firefight badly needs a refresh because of the whole "weapons being useless" issue. The latter in particular is a glaring issue in my opinion, especially considering how Heroic WZFF is consistently near the top of the playlist popularity list. Maybe Action Sack could use a refresh too, but I think you're exactly right when you say BTB and firefight need it most.
Umm, I think Heroic WZFF is near the top more because it's way easier than Legendary than any other reason. Dealing with the "weapons being useless" issue really only benefits Legendary and Mythic. I suppose giving people the ability to reload their power weapons once or twice before having to req out a fresh power weapon might help a little, but nothing short of infinite ammo (or infinite req station reloads) is going to put power weapons on the same level as vehicles. And that would make Firefight a pushover mode.
Hey Josh I have a question pertaining to accuracy percentage. After a game when we look at our stats I find it strange my accuracy is usually the highest but yet I get very poor hit registration. Is that accuracy percentage what the server is seeing or is that what the xbox is seeing? I'm just trying to understand this because I find it very strange when I see players with a lot of kills and very little deaths and there accuracy is like 28%-32%. I'm confused about this because it really makes no sense to me. I see this in quite a few games. Just wanted to get your take on this. Thanks!
The carnage report shows what the server sees.

It could be that you're just seeing a lot of AR/spray weapons on the low accuracy. Or it could be similar to what I do: if I see an enemy across the map and I'm in roughly a "safe" spot, I'll take a potshot at them. I might miss (due to poor aim, lag, etc.), but I might get a kill if they are one-shot. After all, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take...
LUKEPOWA wrote:
It's my bias, but I would like BTB and Firefight to get a refresh if there ever is one.
I don't think it's just your bias. I would say BTB needs a refresh because, as I pointed out in another thread, most of the maps cater heavily to CQC and don't have anything for vehicles besides a Ghost and a Warthog, and firefight badly needs a refresh because of the whole "weapons being useless" issue. The latter in particular is a glaring issue in my opinion, especially considering how Heroic WZFF is consistently near the top of the playlist popularity list. Maybe Action Sack could use a refresh too, but I think you're exactly right when you say BTB and firefight need it most.
BTB refresh with some better maps and AR/Magnum starts? Aw yiss.
Umm, I think Heroic WZFF is near the top more because it's way easier than Legendary than any other reason. Dealing with the "weapons being useless" issue really only benefits Legendary and Mythic.
No, it benefits anyone who plays WZFF. This is because people who only play on Heroic would also like their weapons to be remotely useful. Even on Heroic, almost all req weapons including Mythics can hardly kill a few Soldiers or Elites before they run out of ammo. So currently, they are far from useful compared to vehicles. In WZFF, no matter the difficulty, it is almost never a smart choice to call in a weapon when you could call in a vehicle.

It is frankly awful game design to have a mode that causes its players open req packs, look at all the cool supposedly "powerful" weapons, and then let them collect dust or sell them in the hopes of opening another pack and getting some vehicles instead. That is the nature of the problem. And I pointed out the fact that Heroic is near the top because fixing this problem would make life easier for many Halo 5 players, so 343 should be interested in doing something about it.
I suppose giving people the ability to reload their power weapons once or twice before having to req out a fresh power weapon might help a little, but nothing short of infinite ammo (or infinite req station reloads) is going to put power weapons on the same level as vehicles. And that would make Firefight a pushover mode.
How would putting weapons on the same level as vehicles make it a "pushover mode"? More importantly, no, giving them infinite ammo actually still would not put them on the same level as vehicles, because vehicles would still offer far more protection.

Not only that, but even if it made Heroic even easier, so what? As you said, people like it precisely because it's easier. I see nothing wrong with having easy firefight alongside Legendary and Mythic firefight. But, like I said, I strongly disagree that making weapons more useful in firefight, even to the point of them being equally as useful as vehicles, would cause Heroic to become a "pushover mode".

Regardless, firefight players should be able to open req packs and say "yay I got a Mythic weapon, I can't wait to use this!" just like PvP Warzone players can say. This problem needs to be solved, whether it causes Heroic firefight to become a "pushover mode" or not. Perhaps 343 could find a solution that wouldn't cause Heroic to become a "pushover mode", but either way, it needs to be solved. It's quite ridiculous that firefight players have to deal with their weapons being so pathetically useless compared to vehicles, especially since weapons drop so much more often from packs. It's just bad game design.
Soo was playing some wza and it seems that I'm matching a lot of teams. The games are over in less than 5 mins. If this continues could see the playlist lose even more players. I don't mind competition but in these games there is almost no chance. I could normally search solo and get pretty fair matches but not anymore
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