Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – JULY 24

OP ZaedynFel

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Playlist Update

As you’ve no doubt noticed, we’ve trimmed our playlists down, and have two fairly regularly rotating lists instead. I thought I’d report on how well that has worked out, and what our plans are in the future.

First of all, it’s worked out well. Playlists like Action Sack and Grifball get significantly more playtime and better matchmaking during their rotational than they had for years as permanent lists.

See the example below of Action Sack. In general, Rotationals get good playtime while they are active, but drop to below Big Team Battle levels towards the end, which is why we keep them as Rotationals. Core Play will become a rotational since its performance has also been in line with rotationals.

action


One thing we haven’t mentioned previously is how we choose rotationals for each week. We have two working lists:
  • Top Rotationals
  • The Rest (old favorites, new lists to discover, etc.)
So the first slot is always a Top Rotational which we leave up for two weeks, and then replace with another Top Rotational. The Top list is shorter than the other list, so you see our best rotationals more often.

The second slot rotates through the rest.

We also do the rotations on alternating weeks. So one week, a Top list gets replaced, while the non-Top slot stays the same.

To judge which Rotationals are at the top, we look how much they are played during the hours they are available, and rank on that average.

Here are the rankings over the last few months using that metric. Note that Mythic Shotty is a bit inflated because it hasn’t run in a long time.
rank

You can contrast that with the popularity ranking from just the last 7 days as well:

week

Our plans going forward are to stick to this same basic plan. We’ll look at the most popular rotationals and put them into the shorter list, and keep the less popular ones in a longer slot 2 list. We’ll monitor list popularity and move different lists in and out of each slot as appropriate. So you’ll see the most popular ones a little more often, but the difference won’t be crazy. It also won’t be different for most lists than we have already done in the last 3 months or so.
Hey Josh, do you consider warzone assault in a "healthy state" in terms of population? from the data provided it seems it always sits on the same ground. From what i have played, matchmaking seems more loose since search times sometimes gets long. in addition, i have found frequently new players (low levels) in that playlist facing higher skilled players. is this due to the popularity affecting matchmaking?
Mmm, that new thread smell.

Do you guys have any plans to change up the game modes in Action Sack? I know some of them have been in the rotation since its inception and a refresh could do it some good.

Also, do you look at the game modes for the rotational playlists and take them into account? I'm only asking cause I remember there was a recent complaint about the rotationals featuring too many slayer type playlists in a row. If that actually is happening, then a suggestion would be to make it so there are more objective type playlists mixed in so it's not slayer only for multiple weeks in a row.
Is Snipers ever coming back? Maybe even replace Elimination and move Elimination to Social?
V Agonia wrote:
Hey Josh, do you consider warzone assault in a "healthy state" in terms of population? from the data provided it seems it always sits on the same ground. From what i have played, matchmaking seems more loose since search times sometimes gets long. in addition, i have found frequently new players (low levels) in that playlist facing higher skilled players. is this due to the popularity affecting matchmaking?
Yeah, Assault is not in great shape. There are almost no restrictions on matchmaking in Assault, other than preventing worse than 60/40 odds. But it can balance good players with ones with much lower skill.
D M4N8 wrote:
Is Snipers ever coming back? Maybe even replace Elimination and move Elimination to Social?
You do know Elimination is in Ranked because it was the sweatiest playlist when it was in Social due to how competitive it can get in a short amount of time.
Josh, I’m curious if you could speak on behalf of the playlist Sustain Team regarding several prominent questions that the community inquires about? If so, please take the time to give answer to these questions:

  • Can we expect the BTB playlist to receive more/new maps?
  • Will the Action Sack playlist receive a refresh? Just as LUKEPOWA asked about above.
  • Can we receive an Anniversary Throwback playlist for H2? Achieved by combining H2 remake maps with H2BR starts. This could potentially replace the H2BR Slayer playlist within the rotational options. And for further condensing it could potentially be combined with the CE Anniversary Throwback for one awesome mixed bag of Anniversary Throwback modes (CE & H2).
  • Will the Warzone environment adopt a weekly rotational option to mix Warzone Assault with Warzone Turbo & Mythic Warzone Firefight?
  • Or could the Warzone Assault playlist find itself becoming a weekend rotational like those other two playlists?
  • Can the Quickplay playlist receive a non-slayer based option for the three maps? Coliseum CTF, Plaza Strongholds, & Truth Oddball. This would provide an option to play non-slayer based objectives on a permanent basis without the HCS settings.
  • Will the party size information under the Quickplay playlist get updated to reflect a max fireteam size of 2 instead of 4? I assume not if it requires a complex UI fix; though, I don't know why it would.
  • Could we get a Community Doubles rotational playlist? There are many excellent 2v2 community maps worthy of being in Matchmaking.
  • Or would you consider adding some of these 2v2 community maps to the Ranked Doubles playlist?
  • Can you consider using the Abilities Tracker in the Ranked Doubles playlist?
  • Could we get a Community Duel (1v1) rotational playlist? I’m pretty sure there’s enough quality custom maps to support this playlist.
  • Can a Community Arena playlist replace the Community Slayer playlist? That way we could potentially play Strongholds, CTF, and Oddball on these community maps that were designed for those modes too.
  • Would you add a rotational Assault playlist so that the Assault mode could be played more often in order to earn the accommodations?
  • Or add the Assault mode to the Core Play playlist lineup of mixed modes?
If you do not necessarily speak on behalf of the playlist Sustain Team, could you ask the Sustain Team Lead or the community contact person from that group to respond to the questions above? Also, I’d like to ask you a few questions that are more directed to your particular position:

  • How’s progress going on the multi-mode playlist MMR tweak/change that you’ve spoken about previously? (Link)
  • Any news regarding the CSR syncing confusion that was brought to your attention in the last feedback thread? (Link)
  • Can we get a status update on the working solution in prototype (aka potential fix) that you spoke about regarding MMR being off in some rare cases? (Link)
  • Has testing some different options regarding CSR adjustments included trying +/- 30 in addition to +/- 1 & +/- 15? The PGCRs have up to three arrow indicators for CSR adjustments so they would fit well with the numbers of 1 (1 arrow), 15 (2 arrows), & 30 (3 arrows). And I imagine it should also allow for quicker MMR/CSR convergences.
  • Have you investigated the CSR quit penalty? We’re suppose to lose -30 CSR for being the first to quit, but there’s been several reports of that not being the case. Here is one example.
  • Could you provide more details on how the party MMR boost works in TS2?
    <> Assuming they're fixed amounts, what are the amounts being applied to different party sizes?
    <> Are these amounts always adjusting based on new information?
    <> Does TS2 base your individual performance expectation off of your non-boosted MMR or off of your boosted MMR?
  • Is 343i aware that some players are getting dropped from a fireteam while loading into a ranked match? The strange part is that their spots are automatically filled by other searching players as the match loads.
I personally would love to see the Rotational breakdown below.

Top:

Castle Wars
Action Sack (refreshed)
Shotty Snips
Anniversary Throwback (CE & H2)
Community Arena

Rest:

Core Play (w/ Assault)
H3 Classic Throwback
Mythic Shotty Snips
Rock 'N Rail
Triple Team
Covenant Slayer (w/ Refuge)
Grifball
X-Ball
BADvorak wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Is Snipers ever coming back? Maybe even replace Elimination and move Elimination to Social?
You do know Elimination is in Ranked because it was the sweatiest playlist when it was in Social due to how competitive it can get in a short amount of time.
Didn't know, but good to know
Got any references?
ZaedynFel wrote:
One thing we haven’t mentioned previously is how we choose rotationals for each week. We have two working lists:
  • Top Rotationals
  • The Rest (old favorites, new lists to discover, etc.)
So the first slot is always a Top Rotational which we leave up for two weeks, and then replace with another Top Rotational. The Top list is shorter than the other list, so you see our best rotationals more often.

The second slot rotates through the rest.
How does a playlist get into the rotation for "The Rest"? I'd love to see a Super Fiesta Objective playlist (or maybe just Flag/Husky Raid). I think it could be a fun way to get more people to play objective game types.
D M4N8 wrote:
Didn't know, but good to know
Got any references?
I believe the Blog Post that mentioned the playlist being added referenced this but you could also ask around the community on Twitter as they have talked about this.
BADvorak wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Didn't know, but good to know
Got any references?
I believe the Blog Post that mentioned the playlist being added referenced this but you could also ask around the community on Twitter as they have talked about this.
I find almost every playlist is sweaty but to say THE sweatiest is another thing
ZaedynFel wrote:
V Agonia wrote:
Hey Josh, do you consider warzone assault in a "healthy state" in terms of population? from the data provided it seems it always sits on the same ground. From what i have played, matchmaking seems more loose since search times sometimes gets long. in addition, i have found frequently new players (low levels) in that playlist facing higher skilled players. is this due to the popularity affecting matchmaking?
Yeah, Assault is not in great shape. There are almost no restrictions on matchmaking in Assault, other than preventing worse than 60/40 odds. But it can balance good players with ones with much lower skill.
I see, that explains.
Thanks josh
I was wondering, do you take into consideration the fact that the rotational playlists are also featured aka double experience? Because I kind of think you have too. A lot of people will play them just for that factor and that factor alone, not because they like them. How well would say shotty snipers, action sack, grifball, castle wars etc. do without it you know.... ??? My guess is some would still definitely do ok, but others not as good. I know a lot of people that play castles wars to get quick experience by letting a team cap and throwing matches for example and to get challenges done like mongoose destroyer, not because they like it.

I'm not saying the rotational playlists aren't working or that's it's not a good idea (i think it is) but how much more popular would say non rotational playlists like doubles, BTB, Infection, FFA etc. be if they were featured aka double experience and not the rotational playlists. Again, I'm guessing some would be quite a bit. You know what I'm getting at/saying?

I was just curious if you guys/girls do consider that and if you don't, I kind of think you should. An interesting test/experiment would be make a playlist like BTB or doubles or whatever, featured and make the rotational playlists not and see how well they all do then.

Thanks for the information Josh and the updates. Hope your summer is going well.
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Judging by the graph of Action Sack, I'd say Double XP isn't making that much of a difference in how much play a rotational playlist gets. So if regular playlists got Double XP, there'd be an initial surge just like the rotational playlists, but then they'd eventually go back down to where they usually sit. At least that's how I think things would go.
Can we Please get some better maps in the Slayer playlist. It's Mercy every other game and then Pegasus and Orion 2. We want more eden, empire, Plaza, the rig, even the 2 new maps. It is one of the most popular playlist anyways. Let's get some map changes up in there!
Judging by the graph of Action Sack, I'd say Double XP isn't making that much of a difference in how much play a rotational playlist gets. So if regular playlists got Double XP, there'd be an initial surge just like the rotational playlists, but then they'd eventually go back down to where they usually sit. At least that's how I think things would go.
From my experience I have noticed that 2XP was removed from the Rotational Playlists about 4-5 months ago. That or the amount of XP earned before being Doubled is a lot less than it was before.
D M4N8 wrote:
I find almost every playlist is sweaty but to say THE sweatiest is another thing
Yeah I say that due to Halo 5's highly competitive nature as well as Extermination's mechanics and objective making it competitive.
Don’t make Core Play rotational pls. That’s just the wrong move. I feel like that is the only social playlist with 4v4 “standard” gameplay, that isn’t always slayer. It is perfect when you don’t want to sweat in Team Arena and just wanna chill-play.
D M4N8 wrote:
Is Snipers ever coming back? Maybe even replace Elimination and move Elimination to Social?
Ranked snipers consistently had the lowest population of any ranked playlist. So I don't think bringing it back would solve anything. Considering how old the game is conserving population needs to be a top priority. Plus shotty Snipes should come around pretty often.
l Shogun l wrote:
Can we Please get some better maps in the Slayer playlist. It's Mercy every other game and then Pegasus and Orion 2. We want more eden, empire, Plaza, the rig, even the 2 new maps. It is one of the most popular playlist anyways. Let's get some map changes up in there!
The lack of a veto or voting system is probably one of my biggest issues with Halo 5. I hope they don’t use the same random selection system in Halo Infinite.
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