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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – July 3

OP ZaedynFel

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ZaedynFel wrote:
Ranked Expansion The new expansion rules we tried on SWAT and FFA have been successful overall. The players who were no longer able to even play those formats are now getting matches guaranteed in under 5 minutes.
This also has the side benefit of making it easier for legitimate teams to catch up with Smurf teams because they can get into matches without needing Smurfs on their teams. The gap is closing a bit there.
We added these same rules to Doubles as well during the past week because that was another area higher-skilled players were struggling to be able to play the game at all.
With the new season, we will be incorporating those tunings into all Ranked playlists. This will make it so we never have periods where it is hard to find a match for players on the bottom or top. The search in all playlists will expand from a tiny gap up to the maximum allowed gap (half the distribution) over 2.5 minutes.
The risk we are taking here is that this will allow top players into matches with Plats in rare occasions. While this is true, the adaptive nature of the new rules will make sure this only happens if the only available population are those Plat players. The rules still try really hard for very tight matches at first, and will only allow those uneven ones as a last ditch effort to make a match in under 5 minutes.
Playlists that have healthy populations will probably not notice any changes, especially if they search Focused.
We are also seeing if we can increase that 5-minute wait time if this results in too many uneven matches.
Also, we noticed we had a few rules in all our playlists that were causing the matchmaker to ignore tighter matches for edge-case reasons that we didn’t need anymore. We removed those extra rules, and this should result in even tighter than previous matches under some scenarios.
Does this mean I'll be able to actually get matches now when running with our Champ group? It was literally impossible to find ANY matches in Team Arena and Breakout last season. We actually had to resort to using a couple Smurph accounts at times just because we'd literally keep erroring out that there's no possible matches....

Which brings me to another point. I really feel the minimum a player should jump up CSR-wise should increase to either 3 or 5 points. I waited for 40 minutes to play 2 matches, which we won, and I only went up 1 point for each win. Biggest time killer I've ever seen....
Does this mean I'll be able to actually get matches now when running with our Champ group? It was literally impossible to find ANY matches in Team Arena and Breakout last season. We actually had to resort to using a couple Smurph accounts at times just because we'd literally keep erroring out that there's no possible matches....

Which brings me to another point. I really feel the minimum a player should jump up CSR-wise should increase to either 3 or 5 points. I waited for 40 minutes to play 2 matches, which we won, and I only went up 1 point for each win. Biggest time killer I've ever seen....
Yes, it does mean that.

We can't give out more CSR without causing inflation and exploits.

If you're getting 1 point, it might mean you should be getting "0" points, but the system is being nice.

Ideally we would detect 0-point matches and not let them happen, although they could mean an indefinite wait for you again.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Does this mean I'll be able to actually get matches now when running with our Champ group? It was literally impossible to find ANY matches in Team Arena and Breakout last season. We actually had to resort to using a couple Smurph accounts at times just because we'd literally keep erroring out that there's no possible matches....

Which brings me to another point. I really feel the minimum a player should jump up CSR-wise should increase to either 3 or 5 points. I waited for 40 minutes to play 2 matches, which we won, and I only went up 1 point for each win. Biggest time killer I've ever seen....
Yes, it does mean that.

We can't give out more CSR without causing inflation and exploits.

If you're getting 1 point, it might mean you should be getting "0" points, but the system is being nice.

Ideally we would detect 0-point matches and not let them happen, although they could mean an indefinite wait for you again.
Cool. I only suggested the CSR thing because our group plays the same times (7-10pm central time) during the week, so we will play pretty much the same people throughout the week. When It comes to equal skill, we should be going up roughly 15 points give or take a few if we win and going down almost an equal amount.

The problem is the Smurph accounts heavily skew that. We will play a known group that we always run into, and that is running 1 or 2 Smurphs to just get a match and end up playing us when we play. We spend a whole night matching them and may win against them say 8 games out of 10.

They are all champs skillwise but since they have a couple new accounts we'll go up like 3-5 points for wins and down 25-28 For a loss. So even if we paired same skilled teams and won 80% of them, we only went up about 40 points for the wins but lost 50-55 For the 2 losses. I thought there was an update to help counter this but it seems not because it's just as rampant as ever and makes playing Ranked extremely frustrating.
stckrboy wrote:
Also, you can still penalize the players who went to the menu to leave the match moreso than other disconnects.
People would just pull their cable / turn off their WiFi so they take the lighter penalty
You're not hearing me. The fact that some people will pull plugs and dashboard does not mean that 343 can't heavily penalize people who go through the menu. More often than not, when I look at a quitter's profile they're still online and in Halo 5; besides, forcing them to dashboard or disconnect their wifi to avoid a heavier penalty will make them lose more time doing so, which could motivate them to not quit out of as many matches.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4588b35a-638b-457d-8731-d82b0d6937c3/players/eddyofthenorth?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

"No games start as 3v4"
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/4588b35a-638b-457d-8731-d82b0d6937c3/players/eddyofthenorth?gameHistoryMatchIndex=5&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

"No games start as 3v4"
Yep, there was an 8th player, he left right between when the game starts and the stats record. Won't show up on the PGCR, does show up in the matchmaking logs.

There's nothing we can do here. No matter when we decide to "check if we should cancel the match" someone can still leave RIGHT after that.

The only option is to add Forfeit, auto-Forfeit, or Soft-Forfeit.

And we already added Soft-Forfeit. The other forfeit types are doable, but not any time soon.
More then 5 maps for swat please. We need more because I'm starting to dream about these 5 maps :)
this. please. add some different maps.
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I just played a match of team slayer, my team got obliterated 100-15. There were no safe areas. Players quit and made it even worse. If we quit enough we get banned, so several of us stuck it out. We had no bloody chance. Why isn't there a max time for vehicle usage. Literally, there were two wasps and a tank and multi snipers covering the whole fn map. The top three guys on there team had career 2 KD, people on my team had career -14.0 and -7.0 and such. How the hell is that a fair matchmaking game. Big team is just a joke and has been for awhile. I'm glad you guys are trying to fix some stuff, but if Halo 6 plays this bad, then what right, all of us will still pay are fn money right. You guys have no incentive to make a game for us casual types. But if you did give a cra-. Then I would revert to the Halo 2/3 skill level. Let people earn points win or lose, just not win. Get rid of the 10 game matching nonsense. It still only ranks you on how many games you win and not how well you played. It has really not served any real purpose, just agitating people. Secondly, as stated above, vehicles should have a maximum use timer. Give a 10 second warning and blow the things up and re-spawn them. That would potentially alleviate spawn trapping via vehicles and create strategy for their use and re-spawn. I would bring back rank for social lists as in Halo 3. Let people earn a career playlist rank based on wins. I honestly don't get the season stuff anymore. Ooo, reset, I'll do better this time. Haha...Man, I've played this game a long time and feel ripped off every time I play it. Bring back Reach with the Halo 4 BR less the over shield nonsense. That was an annoying body armor mechanism. Oh well.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8a9af9fc-1967-4b0e-8a4c-60dd13804698/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
(Searching Focused)
I swear every time I get onto Halo this is the complete imbalance I have to deal with. Honestly I hope after Halo 3 comes backwards compatible that Halo 5 becomes a barren wasteland, nobody should have to deal with this matchmaking system day in and day out. But I'd love to hear some hypothetical explanation if another can be conjured up for this match above. And just for informations sake I finished in Platinum or low diamond last season.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.
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Spoiler:
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https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8a9af9fc-1967-4b0e-8a4c-60dd13804698/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
(Searching Focused)
I swear every time I get onto Halo this is the complete imbalance I have to deal with. Honestly I hope after Halo 3 comes backwards compatible that Halo 5 becomes a barren wasteland, nobody should have to deal with this matchmaking system day in and day out. But I'd love to hear some hypothetical explanation if another can be conjured up for this match above. And just for informations sake I finished in Platinum or low diamond last season.
It honestly looks like you held your own, but didn't capitalize on OBJ opportunities. Only like a 6 kill difference. It looks like the other team was just playing the OBJ better in this case. I don't feel like the teams were that unbalanced. It really just looks like you were the only one playing the OBJ, and your team wasn't paying attention when you would grab the flag. It happens to me a lot. I am not the best Halo player, but that is my two cents.
2 things.

1. FFA. Why does FFA only have slayer as a game mode? The past Halo games, FFA had multiple game modes such -Yoink- oddball, KotH, Moshpit, Juggernaut, and more... It is just silly to only have one game mode in a playlist like this. Please add more game types to this playlist.

2. New Radar. I personally love the new radar that is only in the HCS playlist, and I think it should be brought over into all ranked playlist.
Any cool Req Packs coming soon?
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8a9af9fc-1967-4b0e-8a4c-60dd13804698/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
(Searching Focused)
I swear every time I get onto Halo this is the complete imbalance I have to deal with. Honestly I hope after Halo 3 comes backwards compatible that Halo 5 becomes a barren wasteland, nobody should have to deal with this matchmaking system day in and day out. But I'd love to hear some hypothetical explanation if another can be conjured up for this match above. And just for informations sake I finished in Platinum or low diamond last season.
One of your teammates was Onyx 1700+ in HCS last season. Another one was high diamond in HCS last season. So they were both H3 "50s". You were an H3 40-something. the other team had three H3 50s, plus one unranked guy who ended up plat 2.

So it wasn't a very fair match, but it wasn't a blowout either. You guys capped one flag, after all. The HCS playlist population just isn't big enough to generate totally even matches every game, sadly. It's not the MM system, it's low player population, coupled with the fact that you've got a relatively high MMR (plat 5 last season is like an H3 40-something, as I said).

Would you be equally angry if the following match took place in H3? It's basically what happened.
(50, 50, 50, 35) vs. (50, 50, 42, 23)

It's not ideal, but it's not as bad as you claim.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/8a9af9fc-1967-4b0e-8a4c-60dd13804698/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
(Searching Focused)
I swear every time I get onto Halo this is the complete imbalance I have to deal with. Honestly I hope after Halo 3 comes backwards compatible that Halo 5 becomes a barren wasteland, nobody should have to deal with this matchmaking system day in and day out. But I'd love to hear some hypothetical explanation if another can be conjured up for this match above. And just for informations sake I finished in Platinum or low diamond last season.
One of your teammates was Onyx 1700+ in HCS last season. Another one was high diamond in HCS last season. So they were both H3 "50s". You were an H3 40-something. the other team had three H3 50s, plus one unranked guy who ended up plat 2.

So it wasn't a very fair match, but it wasn't a blowout either. You guys capped one flag, after all. The HCS playlist population just isn't big enough to generate totally even matches every game, sadly. It's not the MM system, it's low player population, coupled with the fact that you've got a relatively high MMR (plat 5 last season is like an H3 40-something, as I said).

Would you be equally angry if the following match took place in H3? It's basically what happened.
(50, 50, 50, 35) vs. (50, 50, 42, 23)

It's not ideal, but it's not as bad as you claim.
The difference in that happening here and the ranks you showed in Halo 3, is that if you had that match in Halo 3 it was because you were in a full party. A 23 doesn't just randomly get thrown into a game with 50s in H3.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
That game was legitimately unbalanced. At least you were on the better side of the stick in this one.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
Are you saying we should remove HCS if we can't matchmake fairly enough in it? I could see that. It is struggling right now. Its settings aren't being embraced by enough folks, and the people who used to play it more are moving to other lists. The match quality in HCS is much lower than, e.g. Team Arena.

So we could consider removing it if its quality stays too low.

If you were implying that Ranked Snipers is pulling away from HCS, that's unlikely. Historical data doesn't show enough of that audience overlaps for that to be a concern, but we'll keep an eye on it. Snipers also has good matchmaking quality, even when pop gets lower, whereas HCS doesn't.

We have data on where players tend to go when we remove / add playlists, and they don't tend to change away much from their favorite rough areas of the game. Team Arena and HCS overlap a little, but Team Arena is currently the healthier of the two from a quality point of view.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
Also the combined wait time for the players in this match was over 11 minutes.

At that point, gotta make something.

I'm showing you searched "Balanced" for both of these matches, and not "Focused.
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