Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – July 3

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5
  6. ...
  7. 6
headyman44 wrote:
How the hell is that a fair matchmaking game. Big team is just a joke and has been for awhile.
It's a social playlist so blowout games will happen. From the sound of it, you matched a full party.
1. FFA. Why does FFA only have slayer as a game mode? The past Halo games, FFA had multiple game modes such -Yoink- oddball, KotH, Moshpit, Juggernaut, and more... It is just silly to only have one game mode in a playlist like this. Please add more game types to this playlist.
A couple of those wouldn't work in a ranked FFA and 343 doesn't seem to want to push certain older objective modes. I think KoTH is only in Action Sack and oddball isn't even the real gametype so I doubt they want to throw that in a ranked setting.

I think FFA does need objective game modes though. Maybe if they made a social version then they could add all of them.
ZaedynFel wrote:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
Are you saying we should remove HCS if we can't matchmake fairly enough in it? I could see that. It is struggling right now. Its settings aren't being embraced by enough folks, and the people who used to play it more are moving to other lists. The match quality in HCS is much lower than, e.g. Team Arena.

So we could consider removing it if its quality stays too low.

If you were implying that Ranked Snipers is pulling away from HCS, that's unlikely. Historical data doesn't show enough of that audience overlaps for that to be a concern, but we'll keep an eye on it. Snipers also has good matchmaking quality, even when pop gets lower, whereas HCS doesn't.

We have data on where players tend to go when we remove / add playlists, and they don't tend to change away much from their favorite rough areas of the game. Team Arena and HCS overlap a little, but Team Arena is currently the healthier of the two from a quality point of view.
Wasn't this an FFA game, not an HCS game, so why are we bringing the HCS playlist in to question? I love the HCS playlist, even with all of the uneven games. I, and most of the people I play with, heavily prefer the HCS settings over traditional Team Arena, and Slayer settings. I know most competitive players, regardless of rank, feel the same way. It would be a huge disappointment to see that playlist go.
TARTB3ARD wrote:
Wasn't this an FFA game, not an HCS game, so why are we bringing the HCS playlist in to question? I love the HCS playlist, even with all of the uneven games. I, and most of the people I play with, heavily prefer the HCS settings over traditional Team Arena, and Slayer settings. I know most competitive players, regardless of rank, feel the same way. It would be a huge disappointment to see that playlist go.
His first match was HCS.

But FFA is in a similar spot these days. We'll see how the refresh goes.
ZaedynFel wrote:
TARTB3ARD wrote:
Wasn't this an FFA game, not an HCS game, so why are we bringing the HCS playlist in to question? I love the HCS playlist, even with all of the uneven games. I, and most of the people I play with, heavily prefer the HCS settings over traditional Team Arena, and Slayer settings. I know most competitive players, regardless of rank, feel the same way. It would be a huge disappointment to see that playlist go.
His first match was HCS.

But FFA is in a similar spot these days. We'll see how the refresh goes.
That is true. I hope some of the matchmaking changes make the HCS playlist feel a little healthier, as far as getting competitive matches goes. It really would be a bummer to see that playlist go. I know, or know of a lot of people who exclusively play that playlist in Ranked. Is there another option, besides getting rid of the HCS playlist/settings, that 343 has thought about?
TARTB3ARD wrote:
That is true. I hope some of the matchmaking changes make the HCS playlist feel a little healthier, as far as getting competitive matches goes. It really would be a bummer to see that playlist go. I know, or know of a lot of people who exclusively play that playlist in Ranked. Is there another option, besides getting rid of the HCS playlist/settings, that 343 has thought about?
Yeah, we're looking at a whole gamut of options. Nothing to report yet though. We know there are a lot of peope who like those settings.
ZaedynFel wrote:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
Also the combined wait time for the players in this match was over 11 minutes.

At that point, gotta make something.

I'm showing you searched "Balanced" for both of these matches, and not "Focused.
Well then apparently what you see and what I choose are 2 different things, I only ever search focused or expanded depending on the time of day, and only reason I search focused is hoping for a quality connection.
ZaedynFel wrote:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/daee493e-b7d5-40ee-8a3c-9b23fc7c8bb9/players/a%20numb%20thumb?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

This is super balanced too. And I think I waited maybe 2 minutes searching focused. It's quite farnkly just a big joke at this point. If population is the problem, then remove playlists don't add them.
Are you saying we should remove HCS if we can't matchmake fairly enough in it? I could see that. It is struggling right now. Its settings aren't being embraced by enough folks, and the people who used to play it more are moving to other lists. The match quality in HCS is much lower than, e.g. Team Arena.

So we could consider removing it if its quality stays too low.

If you were implying that Ranked Snipers is pulling away from HCS, that's unlikely. Historical data doesn't show enough of that audience overlaps for that to be a concern, but we'll keep an eye on it. Snipers also has good matchmaking quality, even when pop gets lower, whereas HCS doesn't.

We have data on where players tend to go when we remove / add playlists, and they don't tend to change away much from their favorite rough areas of the game. Team Arena and HCS overlap a little, but Team Arena is currently the healthier of the two from a quality point of view.
You can't make me believe for 1 minute that the HCS playlist is not one of if not the most populated playlist in ranked. I find matches in it faster than any other playlist I search. But you could remove Team Arena, SWAT, and Breakout and help the other playlists grow.
You can't make me believe for 1 minute that the HCS playlist is not one of if not the most populated playlist in ranked. I find matches in it faster than any other playlist I search. But you could remove Team Arena, SWAT, and Breakout and help the other playlists grow.
Unfortunately, HCS doesn't even have half the playtime of the most popular Ranked playlist. SWAT also has significantly more players than HCS, and they are players unlikely to go to HCS if SWAT goes away, so that would only hurt us.

Breakout has commendations associated with it, so it wouldn't be cool to make it impossible to finish those.

Team Arena has as many players as HCS, many of whom don't play HCS, so we'd lose them.

Also, like I said in a previous update, we need both population and quality. HCS settings are such that it also needs a much larger population to get to the same quality as other lists.

Team Arena has significantly higher quality matches than HCS.

SWAT has the highest quality out of any playlist

So it's not as simple as that.

If you want to keep HCS and keep getting timely matches while the population of HCS continues to drop faster than other lists, you'll have to get used to lower and lower match quality.
ZaedynFel wrote:
You can't make me believe for 1 minute that the HCS playlist is not one of if not the most populated playlist in ranked. I find matches in it faster than any other playlist I search. But you could remove Team Arena, SWAT, and Breakout and help the other playlists grow.
Unfortunately, HCS doesn't even have half the playtime of the most popular Ranked playlist. SWAT also has significantly more players than HCS, and they are players unlikely to go to HCS if SWAT goes away, so that would only hurt us.

Breakout has commendations associated with it, so it wouldn't be cool to make it impossible to finish those.

Team Arena has as many players as HCS, many of whom don't play HCS, so we'd lose them.

Also, like I said in a previous update, we need both population and quality. HCS settings are such that it also needs a much larger population to get to the same quality as other lists.

Team Arena has significantly higher quality matches than HCS.

SWAT has the highest quality out of any playlist

So it's not as simple as that.

If you want to keep HCS and keep getting timely matches while the population of HCS continues to drop faster than other lists, you'll have to get used to lower and lower match quality.
Well I would think that whatever playlist that is the most popular has been a ranked playlist over twice as long as HCS. So it would only make sense that it would have more playtime. Unless your referencing strictly the last Season.
ZaedynFel wrote:
You can't make me believe for 1 minute that the HCS playlist is not one of if not the most populated playlist in ranked. I find matches in it faster than any other playlist I search. But you could remove Team Arena, SWAT, and Breakout and help the other playlists grow.
Unfortunately, HCS doesn't even have half the playtime of the most popular Ranked playlist. SWAT also has significantly more players than HCS, and they are players unlikely to go to HCS if SWAT goes away, so that would only hurt us.

Breakout has commendations associated with it, so it wouldn't be cool to make it impossible to finish those.

Team Arena has as many players as HCS, many of whom don't play HCS, so we'd lose them.

Also, like I said in a previous update, we need both population and quality. HCS settings are such that it also needs a much larger population to get to the same quality as other lists.

Team Arena has significantly higher quality matches than HCS.

SWAT has the highest quality out of any playlist

So it's not as simple as that.

If you want to keep HCS and keep getting timely matches while the population of HCS continues to drop faster than other lists, you'll have to get used to lower and lower match quality.
Well I would think that whatever playlist that is the most popular has been a ranked playlist over twice as long as HCS. So it would only make sense that it would have more playtime. Unless your referencing strictly the last Season.
This is all referencing the last 10 days or so, and has been the trend for a few months.
Well I just want things better, and that may not be possible with the current population/state of Halo 5. And I'm not just trying to be a debbie downer, I just try to address the issues at hand where hopefully when the next big installment to the Halo series is released these things can be fixed and we can hopefully retain a good population from the release.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Breakout has commendations associated with it, so it wouldn't be cool to make it impossible to finish those.
Why not just get rid of the commendations as well unless it's complicated? Anyway, I know people will probably complain about removing them even if you could so it's probably best just to leave it. H6 could be a different story though.
hi, i think I've encountered a frustrating problem in the HCS playlist, first I going to talk about the skillgap between the ranks

Bronze-silver
gap
gold
huge gap
platinum - low onyx
gap
high onyx

the problem is that players that never played in this list maybe never played halo 5, have to make there first ranking games in platinum area, and for that reason. Me (platinum 5) have super inconstant matches, some games against diamonds with diamonds and sometimes with newcomer against gold/platin

the best example happened yesterday ive won against a team wich was higher ranked but within my skill area we won super close 3/2 flag, in the next game, 2 of my team mates were unranked, one was level 10 , both got les than 5 kills and about 20deaths my enemy team was about gold-platin

so my idea to fix this, if some one play his first games in a list he just should play against silver maybe gold
Could I get a little explanation of how some matches I'm getting happen. Hugely unbalanced even on focused.
Spoiler:
Show
@ZaedynFel

Hello once again. I mean no disrespect by the following, please understand that I only speak the way I do because I desire change in the mmr, and want the game to improve so I can keep playing it, and continue spending money on it.

Tonight was one of the worst nights I've had playing halo in recent weeks, and it wasn't down to arbitrary raging at my own errors, I actually played very well for all the games, but it's never enough any more.
- Every single team I face, without fail, is not only Spartan Rank 140+ (mostly), but also highly skilled players that are not slow, inexperienced or bumbling. They are hardened warzone sweats (like me lol) but the point is they will spam ghosts and whiplashes if given the chance. Every single member of the enemy team is in this position. I do not know if they're in a team or if they're searching solo, but amongst all this inconsistency of my poor low-levelled teammates, there is incredible consistency in my opponent's tendency to spam powerful reqs, not just once, but as many times as they possibly can (e.g. tonight a guy called in whiplash => banshee => helios => hannibal tank => another hannibal tank, and he was level 140, I say this because he's probably never even really used a hannibal tank much at that level)
- My teammates continue to be absolutely abysmal. It's no secret that having 'less than desirable teammates' is no fun, but good lord, about 19/20 games it happens. You {Zaedynfel} said to me multiple times this bullhonky about 'you will be matched with similarly ranked teammates'. Bull ess ach eye Tea. This is baloney, my teammates couldn't shoot an afk player with an advic, let alone support me when I push a base. They never ever do well, they never survive encounters, they might be level 140+ but they are not skilled at all. Whatever thick MMR they have developed was done wrongfully, as they don't belong in my game.

I'm not trying to boast, I'm trying to give a picture. Me and my fireteam/s are all 150+, we are the sweatiest players. We play almost every night, we always play for the win, we have developed dirty monstrous strategies that would make even a one armed bricklayer in Baghdad sweat more than he has before. Our 6 man can carry a lot of players but not the bottom of the community, not these players that we keep getting teamed up with. No matter how sweaty, and how savagely we OUTslay the other team (yes because we're still that sweaty that we don't give up and push over) we still lose these games, because our teammates feed the enemy kills, power weapons, and offer up rites of passage through the many routes of the map.

So I don't care about this normally because I want you 'Zaedynfel' to squirm, panic and stare wide eyed into the mess that you have created, I want the failure and death of the halo franchise to be evidenced forever on your hands and the hands of the incompetent 343 community team, but for the time being, in the present, smurfing is becoming big in warzone. High leveled players are using smurf accounts in matchmaking now, and are destroying the low level players that are spared from ending up on my team. Soon enough, all players are going to regularly use smurf accounts so that we aren't forced to carry and sweat like bill cosby in a playground. Smurfing is stopping people enjoying the game from day 1, we have no influx of regular players that will want to return. This goes for arena also; since people like me get blitzed in warzone, we move to social playlists and stomp on doorknobs as a form of venting; that old catharsis of playing social, but definitely not belonging in social.

I'll be honest, I don't know an exact glaring solution to this pancaked posterior of a game you have made, but I'm sure you know of a few that can at least make it worthwhile to take these losses every so often. These losses are unfair, and no player in the history of halo in the world would ever ever ever (unless they were thrown against the wall at birth) concede it a 'good game'. Absolutely not, it's unfair, unreasonable, and unplayable, especially when you realise winning=losing the next game. Dear god please just tell me there is some hope for warzone in the future, because it's hurting a lot of people, and soon to be a lot more if you continue to prance around the issue, and not address the problems at hand. If you are wondering what I mean by problems, I'm referring to the campaign length, lag for oceanic players, lag lunges for any lagging player, broken mmr system which matches unfair teams together, regular game crashes, regular screen freezes, broken theatre, broken ballistics (as in arclights, lasers, bullets sometimes never registering even on direct impacts) smurfing, laggy user interface, broken user interface, idiotic action sack gamemodes and woodge customs still prevalent in the customs browser. There's more problems, but beggars can't be choosers, I'd be surprised if you guys could manage to tie your shoes without releasing a 39 Gb patch to address the laces, where there's promise of a 1529 GB Christmas patch addressing the shoe.

Thanks for reading.

p.s. please have less robot dogs in the next halo.
Goat8695 wrote:
I'm not trying to boast, I'm trying to give a picture. Me and my fireteam/s are all 150+, we are the sweatiest players. We play almost every night, we always play for the win, we have developed dirty monstrous strategies that would make even a one armed bricklayer in Baghdad sweat more than he has before. Our 6 man can carry a lot of players but not the bottom of the community, not these players that we keep getting teamed up with. No matter how sweaty, and how savagely we OUTslay the other team (yes because we're still that sweaty that we don't give up and push over) we still lose these games, because our teammates feed the enemy kills, power weapons, and offer up rites of passage through the many routes of the map.

After flipping through your game history, looks like you won 75% (or more) of your WZ games yesterday/today, running with your sweaty To6. So I'm not sure what the big problem is. They outlawed teams of 12 because it was leading to bad farm-fests, and the phenomenon you're seeing is a side effect. They are trying to make balanced teams (balanced by definition MEANS both sides have a chance to win), so if you are really good you're going to get weaker teammates.

If they don't do it this way, then weaker players will get absolutely blown out every game, leave the playlist, and MM quality will get worse as the population drops. Then the playlist will totally die. So you'll just need to deal with it, man. It's the only way, given how snowball-prone warzone is.

P.S. I say this as a SR 151 who also runs in a lot of sweaty To6 lobbies, so I know your pain.
I hope someone is still reading this, as finding games in social is now a pain for me.

ZaedynFel wrote:
In the past, Social matchmaking had been the same as Ranked, but with no enforced maximum skill gap. This meant that a “Bronze” player could easily get into a match with an Onyx player.
Gaps of that size create matches that are a joke for the Onyx player, and the Bronze player doesn’t even feel like they can play.
Also, gaps that large make it so if you are the Onyx player, we must put all the Bronze players on your team to balance the match fairly against the other players who are usually Gold / Plat.
This can create undo stress on the Onyx players who will have to super carry their teams to win, making Social a bit sweaty if they want to win matches.
To alleviate this, we made this change:
  • Social still expands for only 40 seconds like always, and then gives up on skill
  • But we added a max skill gap equal to half the distribution (4 standard deviations)
So after “giving up” on skill, Social will still have at least a safety net.
This is still a huge gap, but roughly half what we allowed before. This means top players won’t see worse than high-Gold / Platinum players in their matches. Bottom players usually won’t see players better than those Gold / Plat ones.
To comment on this, as someone who regularly plays social, I really don't mind having low skilled teammates. I know what I am expecting when I start searching in the Social tab.
In my opinion, if you mind having good teammates and care this much about winning, you should play ranked and not social (or at least run with a full squad).

I used to be able to play and find games alone in the Super Fiesta playlist very fast with the balanced search preference, but it is not the case anymore. If Super Fiesta is still here, it means that its population is quite decent, right?
Still, I now often find myself with the "unable to match, there may not be enough players to support a game in this playlist" error message, even with the expanded search preference (and I shouldn't have to be forced to play on a bad connection because I have a high MMR).

I only found 2 Super Fiesta games this weekend while searching on expanded and one of them was a join in progress. As for the other playlists, it is taking at least a minute to find a game and the so-called problem that you were trying to solve is still here. Please revert these changes you made to social playlists.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Goat8695 wrote:
I'm not trying to boast, I'm trying to give a picture. Me and my fireteam/s are all 150+, we are the sweatiest players. We play almost every night, we always play for the win, we have developed dirty monstrous strategies that would make even a one armed bricklayer in Baghdad sweat more than he has before. Our 6 man can carry a lot of players but not the bottom of the community, not these players that we keep getting teamed up with. No matter how sweaty, and how savagely we OUTslay the other team (yes because we're still that sweaty that we don't give up and push over) we still lose these games, because our teammates feed the enemy kills, power weapons, and offer up rites of passage through the many routes of the map.

After flipping through your game history, looks like you won 75% (or more) of your WZ games yesterday/today, running with your sweaty To6. So I'm not sure what the big problem is. They outlawed teams of 12 because it was leading to bad farm-fests, and the phenomenon you're seeing is a side effect. They are trying to make balanced teams (balanced by definition MEANS both sides have a chance to win), so if you are really good you're going to get weaker teammates.

If they don't do it this way, then weaker players will get absolutely blown out every game, leave the playlist, and MM quality will get worse as the population drops. Then the playlist will totally die. So you'll just need to deal with it, man. It's the only way, given how snowball-prone warzone is.

P.S. I say this as a SR 151 who also runs in a lot of sweaty To6 lobbies, so I know your pain.
Ok first off
- Yes we win 75% of our games, we sweat our absolute balls off, we lose games and that motivates us to try, so we carry and carry. I didn't say in my statement that I lost all those games lol
- Those games, regardless of the win or the loss, were mentally destructive, we were screaming and yelling at eachother trying to juggle bosses, kills, bases, and the lag (australia is hated by 343). This is satisfying, but not "I did well" satisfying, more like getting robbed, having your house burn down, but still finding the thieves didn't take halo 5. It's one positive amongst an ocean of bull ess hach eye tee.
- I'm not saying stop matching me with bad players... I'm saying either remove it (in place of a better system), or compensate this annoying system by rewarding good, skilled players, with perhaps a gold pack each game. Or give us extra xp for carrying the team so hard. Just don't let our effort be in vain.
- I can guarantee you that people will keep playing warzone because they end up on my team, and they get carried to victory, don't worry about those specific randoms lol
- No, I will not 'deal' with it. These losses are completely unfair, because we're some of the best players in the world, and we still can barely hold our own. It's not down to skill, it's the silly matchmaking system that teams us up with incompetent teammates ON PURPOSE WHILE THE ENEMY WILL BE HIGHLY SKILLED.

and no lol you do not know my pain. I am from New Zealand, and have not had balanced games since June of last year. Those games could only be found by one player who had superb internet. Every single game, I am handicapped from the start because Americans like you have a much better connection than me. I've come to term with the handicap, in equal understanding of how a parent accepts their child has severe autism, but I will not tolerate any more handicaps, I can barely handle this first one.
if you want to feel my pain, go watch my clips, see how much of a struggle it is for me to shoot anybody. Now consider my internet, on top of the unfair mmr i have described. I'm not trying to complain, you're allowed to sympathise, but you simply cannot empathise, you don't know how hard we aussies and kiwis try, only for halo to continue to wither and decay, all because you guys can't play without perfect connection....
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5
  6. ...
  7. 6