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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 11

OP ZaedynFel

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ZaedynFel wrote:
I'm curious: what does a plot of all MMR updates look like? Is it a bell curve, or does it look like something else entirely?
Do you mean a histogram? Or an individual player over time?
Is there a resource to where I can see what the recipe is for what makes up an mmr rating? Or a place where mmr is broken down in a more detailed fashion?
Search trueskill2
Is there a resource to where I can see what the recipe is for what makes up an mmr rating? Or a place where mmr is broken down in a more detailed fashion?
They won't give out the formula that constitiutes mmr since people would be able to exploit it. Your csr should match your mmr this season.
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
I'm curious: what does a plot of all MMR updates look like? Is it a bell curve, or does it look like something else entirely?
Do you mean a histogram? Or an individual player over time?
Yes, i mean a histogram, globally for all players. I.e. the number of times an MMR was adjusted by -50, -10, +10, +50, (+1000), etc.
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Since reset today, me and my team have completed 19 games with a 89% win streak in arena. One is now champ 58, D2, D3, and P6. for the last 4 games, only the champ has moved in ranking when winning games, and all other members have stayed at the same MMR. Why
It means the other 3 are consistently playing at their current Rank, whereas the Champ is playing above it.
But since arena is a team game, where we are playing objectives, and our 'champ' is just murdering people. Why are we not going up as a team?
You are going up as a team. Your "Team" CSR would be the average of the CSRs across all of you. That value is going up.

But we don't have a Team ladder, and the only Rank you have is a personal Rank. If we had a Team ladder, then, yes, you would all go up and down as a Team.

But, since we don't have a Team Ladder, it's not fair to judge people only by the performance of their team. It's more fair to include personal performance as well. This means good players who get bad teammates get to still rank up even if it's not their fault they lose. It also means those players don't mind playing with weaker friends since it won't drag their rank down.

It also means players that aren't as good do take the blame more in those situations. That's the flip side of it, but it's also more fair.
Fair, but why would we get no MMR for 3 winning matches in a row, and then with a similar performance lose a bunch when we rarely lose and then cant earn it back.
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Since reset today, me and my team have completed 19 games with a 89% win streak in arena. One is now champ 58, D2, D3, and P6. for the last 4 games, only the champ has moved in ranking when winning games, and all other members have stayed at the same MMR. Why
It means the other 3 are consistently playing at their current Rank, whereas the Champ is playing above it.
But since arena is a team game, where we are playing objectives, and our 'champ' is just murdering people. Why are we not going up as a team?
You are going up as a team. Your "Team" CSR would be the average of the CSRs across all of you. That value is going up.

But we don't have a Team ladder, and the only Rank you have is a personal Rank. If we had a Team ladder, then, yes, you would all go up and down as a Team.

But, since we don't have a Team Ladder, it's not fair to judge people only by the performance of their team. It's more fair to include personal performance as well. This means good players who get bad teammates get to still rank up even if it's not their fault they lose. It also means those players don't mind playing with weaker friends since it won't drag their rank down.

It also means players that aren't as good do take the blame more in those situations. That's the flip side of it, but it's also more fair.
Fair, but why would we get no MMR for 3 winning matches in a row, and then with a similar performance lose a bunch when we rarely lose and then cant earn it back.
MMR or CSR? What you said can happen without your MMR changing at all if your CSR is above your MMR. You always go +1/-15 while CSR is above MMR. CSR tends to bounce around your MMR, so it can be a little higher sometimes and fall back down. Likewise, you can end up getting +15 for 3 wins in a row and only -1 for losing while giving the same performance.

For example, if you have a 1500 CSR and a 1501 MMR and win, you will then have a 1515 CSR and a 1501 MMR still if your performance was consistent.

You will then only get +1 for 3 matches, up to 1518 CSR while still having a 1500 MMR. If you then lose but perform the same, you will get -15 to 1503, and then -15 to 1488, which is now below your CSR.

Then, you will get +15 for the next two wins, only -1 for losses, etc. So you end up bouncing around your MMR depending on the luck in your wins and losses.

But remember that performance isn't just Kills and Deaths, it's also based on who your opponents and teammates were for each match, whether you were in a party, how many matches you've played in your lifetime on that exact game mode in the playlist, how long it's been since your last match, etc. It all factors in to an extent.
Anyone else noticed how screwed up the Team arena playlist is now? HCS settlings suck in objective . Why couldnt they leave the Team arena playlist alone and screw up the Slayer playlist instead??
Anyone else noticed how screwed up the Team arena playlist is now? HCS settlings suck in objective . Why couldnt they leave the Team arena playlist alone and screw up the Slayer playlist instead??
Think of the current team arena playlist as the old hcs playlist. They wanted to combine the two "competitive" playlists into one for population reasons. No worries though the old team arena will be coming to social soon.
Hey Josh,

Did something change in terms of everyone's mmr for the team arena playlist? I ranked platinum 3 which I'm fine with but it seems like everyone has moved down about 300 CSR for team arena compared to even the old hcs playlist. Is that just because we moved champion down to 1500 and capped ranking at diamond 3? I know that we are getting ranked 200 CSR lower than our mmr.
QX wrote:
Hey Josh,

Did something change in terms of everyone's mmr for the team arena playlist? I ranked platinum 3 which I'm fine with but it seems like everyone has moved down about 300 CSR for team arena compared to even the old hcs playlist. Is that just because we moved champion down to 1500 and capped ranking at diamond 3? I know that we are getting ranked 200 CSR lower than our mmr.
It's -200 CSR.

What happened here was that your last placement match was in Oddball. Most are lower in Oddball. We have a change in the pipeline to use the average instead of the current game mode to soften this.

It'll average out as you play more. Just luck.
Josh please provide some insight here...I won 10 out of 10 placement games with a 7.3 Kda finishing in the top 2 on my team every game while beating diamond players and I somehow place platinum 6! Why did I not place in diamond?? This is getting rediculous and I’m about to give up on halo until infinity...skeppptical is my gamer tag...
What's the logic behind holding onyx and champion players back to diamond 3? Can I expect to forfeit a bunch of games to champion level players because they're in the low diamond brackets?
What's the logic behind holding onyx and champion players back to diamond 3? Can I expect to forfeit a bunch of games to champion level players because they're in the low diamond brackets?
You don't get matched by csr. Instead you get matched by MMR. The reason behind making a cap at d3 is to allow a little grind required to get champ so that someone can't just play 10 games and rank champ 1.
What's the logic behind holding onyx and champion players back to diamond 3? Can I expect to forfeit a bunch of games to champion level players because they're in the low diamond brackets?
Because people complained about being able to place straight into Onyx/Champ and how it was "unfair" and how they wanted to grind ranks. So now they can grind ranks.
Sounds like everyone should be held back. Seems to me if we're using MMR anyways why can't we all just start at bronze one and work our way up. This would be the most fun and rewarding.
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Sounds like everyone should be held back. Seems to me if we're using MMR anyways why can't we all just start at bronze one and work our way up. This would be the most fun and rewarding.
I mean then there would be no skill ranking. The whole point behind the d3 wall was to allow for grinding at the champion ranks.

In lower levels you are trying to grind anyway to get better by going from gold to plat to diamond.

However at the high levels of the skill system people wanted the champion ranks, top 200 in a playlist, to be rewarded to people who play the playlist. Last season a lot of the top 50 champs in various playlist simply played 10 games. Look at vetoed, he had 3 or 4 playlists where he was champ with 10 games played. While I agree that he deserves to be ranked that high as he is that skilled I think a lot of people wanted the top champion spots to be obtainable by slightly less skilled players who actually play the playlist.

And again everyone was held back from placing above d3 it's just some people are not skilled enough to rank higher than d3. Starting at bronze would also take forever to grind out of too which doesn't suit well for a system that is supposed to represent the skill level of the player.
Wahadinho wrote:
What's the logic behind holding onyx and champion players back to diamond 3? Can I expect to forfeit a bunch of games to champion level players because they're in the low diamond brackets?
Because people complained about being able to place straight into Onyx/Champ and how it was "unfair" and how they wanted to grind ranks. So now they can grind ranks.
Of course, they are going to complain when you're putting 0.6 KD, 20% Win Percentage person into Champ Bracket.

Thanks for PERFECTING rankings, again, After 8 wins in qualifying matches I've been placed in Plat 4. Thanks for giving me the option to grind LOL. Grind wasn't the problem, the problem was that CSR/MMR wasn't giving any rewards after winning 10 in a row with 1st or 2nd place in the team.

Thanks for this, I really appreciate how great you are, letting us grind once again. Thank you so much. I'm blessed, I mean, we all are, with such great Community Managers and Devs.
Dude you are forgetting that ranked is determined by how well you do versus various levels of skilled opponents. I guarantee you that that champ who had a .6 kd played higher level players than you did.

Think of it like this. Does you winning half of your games against platinum/diamond level players equal someone winning 2 games out of 10 against pros? No. The games against pros we're harder and required more skill than your games even though the player might have had a worse k/d than yours.

I'll put it another way. Should a silver level player who happened to have 10 good games against other silvers, winning 8 of them and getting a 5.0 kda, get ranked higher than you since they won more games and had a better kda? Even though that player played worse people than you did and is less skilled should they still get a higher rank?

Even so the system is ranking everyone -200 csr below their mmr so there is still a grind for you to get your car back to your mmr. The ranking system is not there to hand you points every game where you beat a team you should beat. It's meant to demonstrate your skill level not how many games you played.
At least I'm getting up faster. But honestly, my motivation is brought to the ground...
More smurfs than ever...
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