Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 11

OP ZaedynFel

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NightClerk wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
My one issue with this is that it seems that the system has a binary approach. Where if you are "projected" to win, even marginally, you have a very small CSR gain you can make. Basically, I have nothing to "gain" by winning but can lose significant CSR if a teammate decides to quite out or just play terrible. Their poor performance weighs me down. I do think the new system is better, I'm just iffy on this one part.

Is there any bias towards more heavily weighing recent performance in MMR?
Yes, recent performances are considered more important in determining current skill than older performances are.
Why am I dropping when I lose to Champion 17 and high Onyx but dont rank up when I beat them!!!!!? Im a diamond 6 for crying out loud!
QX wrote:
Kashnasty wrote:
Can you put something up so we can at least see what to expect when ranking after games? And why start at Diamond 3? I thought yall didnt want us to grind up?
They are making a soft ceiling at d3 so that the champion ranks will still be a little bit of a grind since there is no real playlist progression anymore. It's to stop people from ranking champion 1 with 10 games played even if their mmr is really high.
But its been reiterated dozens of times the T2 does not reward grinders.
I just want to understand this ranking system. Please dont just say “well, thats your true rank.” I rank sometimes against bad players, dont rank against good. Rank down losing to players way better. Please clarify. Please.
NightClerk wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
My one issue with this is that it seems that the system has a binary approach. Where if you are "projected" to win, even marginally, you have a very small CSR gain you can make. Basically, I have nothing to "gain" by winning but can lose significant CSR if a teammate decides to quite out or just play terrible. Their poor performance weighs me down. I do think the new system is better, I'm just iffy on this one part.

Is there any bias towards more heavily weighing recent performance in MMR?
Yes, recent performances are considered more important in determining current skill than older performances are.
If a teammate quits out, it's very generous to your MMR.
Kashnasty wrote:
QX wrote:
Kashnasty wrote:
Can you put something up so we can at least see what to expect when ranking after games? And why start at Diamond 3? I thought yall didnt want us to grind up?
They are making a soft ceiling at d3 so that the champion ranks will still be a little bit of a grind since there is no real playlist progression anymore. It's to stop people from ranking champion 1 with 10 games played even if their mmr is really high.
But its been reiterated dozens of times the T2 does not reward grinders.
The true Onyxes/Champs starting at Diamond 3 are going to have Onyx/Champ MMRs. They'll get back up to those ranks fairly quickly. It's those people who don't have high MMRs that "grinding" under TS2 aren't going to benefit. Just winning (grinding) isn't going to see you move up the lists that much anymore, i.e., the guy who's consistently the dead weight isn't going to wind up being an Onyx/Champ because of the success of his teammates. Winning and showing the system you deserve to be ranked higher than you are will move you up.
Kashnasty wrote:
But its been reiterated dozens of times the T2 does not reward grinders.
Your skill doesn't go up from just grinding. Your hidden MMR only goes up if you perform better than expected. So if you are an Onyx player and you play 20 games against Diamonds and Platinums and win them all, your MMR won't go up because duh, of course you won. You were already a better player.

In that respect, Trueskill2 doesn't reward grinding. Unlike Halo 3, where you would go up for every win, no matter who you won against or how you won.

The difference between "grinding" and capping people at Diamond 3 after quals is that players who are truly better than Diamond 3 will rank up very quickly. After few games and they would have their true ranks (it would take more games if they're true skill was higher, like high Onyx or Champ, but they'd still get there within like 20 games). It's not grinding because they'll only go up so long as they deserve it; they have to play like Champs to get back to Champ. They won't be able to get to Champ if they play like Diamonds; in that case, they'll stay at Diamond.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
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Sounds like a support issue and should be reported HERE. In fact I saw a thread there that you already posted in.
Nepxcal wrote:
HCS has objective gametypes
Yeah, I know that, but now they won't have a ranked objective playlist.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Nepxcal wrote:
HCS has objective gametypes
Yeah, I know that, but now they won't have a ranked objective playlist.
There's still going to be a Team Arena playlist in ranked. Just everything HCS will be rolled into it. It'll still have objective game types in it. Core Play a.k.a. Social Skirmish will be in the Social playlist. Or am I confusing what you're talking about?
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Nepxcal wrote:
HCS has objective gametypes
Yeah, I know that, but now they won't have a ranked objective playlist.
There's still going to be a Team Arena playlist in ranked. Just everything HCS will be rolled into it. It'll still have objective game types in it. Core Play a.k.a. Social Skirmish will be in the Social playlist. Or am I confusing what you're talking about?
I think Luke was referring to a ranked objective based playlist that features Halo 5's default game-play settings because I believe the "they" that he referenced was to players who don't want to play under HCS settings.

Yes, Core Play will be available when it rotates in as a Featured Social playlist, but outside of that window there's no real consistent option for those types of players.
ZaedynFel wrote:
I'm all for this move, but I think the HCS name of the ranked playlist and the Team Arena names should of been keep. I like the HCS name (unless you call it MLG) for the playlist as it makes it crystal clear what to expect in it. Team arena also is a great name for a soical playlist as when I think of it I think if slaying and objective stuff. I'm not really feeling the name "coreplay" at all. It doesn't explain what's really in it to me, but that's me.

@Ronn Swanson I'm sorry bro, but I don't know if I'd call Team Arena the marquee playlist anymore. At one time sure, but ever since the HCS playlist came in, that's been the playlist for pros/hardcores etc. Team Arena just became a ranked slayer and objective playlist. Also judging by the popularity of it, most people that played it went to HCS and/or Tesm Slayer. I know HCS is only spot higher right now, but Team Arena has been falling for a while. I feel your pain bud as i know it sucks when your ranked playlist goes to soical, or gobe completely but who knows what will happen in the future.
The name is so there's less confusion as players transition over from Social or Slayer. This way it's clear where to go next. If we named it HCS or MLG, it could seem more intimidating than it really is. I've played it as a Gold player and found it fine, so I don't see a reason to scare folks off which is usually what happens with that type of naming.

On the other hand, the HCS players will be able to find it just fine.
Ok, I can see what your saying, especially with the HCS name possibly scaring some people off, but I still feel like if I'm soical player and I want to move to ranked play, Team Arena is just a other playlist, where in reality it's the most hardcore playlist in Halo 5.

Where as if I'm a social player and I want to move to ranked play but I don't want the most hardcore play (aka HCS/MLG playlist) then I don't know which one it is, weather reading the description but let's be honest people are lazy and a lot won't read it lol But if I go into ranked play and see the playlist is named HCS MLG then I definitely know not only what to that playlist is, but that it's the most hardcore.

That's how I see it anyways ;)

Also, do I understand correctly then that Team Arena will use HCS settings (Different radar, no Spartan charge or ground pound etc) and coreplay will use "regular" settings? (Normal radar, all abilities etc.)
Spoiler:
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Also, do I understand correctly then that Team Arena will use HCS settings (Different radar, no Spartan charge or ground pound etc) and coreplay will use "regular" settings? (Normal radar, all abilities etc.)
That's my understanding from Josh's post and I didn't read anything that would give me reason to speculate otherwise.
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
Oh. So is that how this system works? You only go up in MMR if the system didn't expected you to win?

An example being where you only have a 45% chance of winning... is this the ONLY way of your MMR gaining those 15 points?
D M4N8 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
Oh. So is that how this system works? You only go up in MMR if the system didn't expected you to win?
No, you can increase your MMR even in games where you were expected to win. You just have to far exceed the system's expectations for that match.
Nepxcal wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
Oh. So is that how this system works? You only go up in MMR if the system didn't expected you to win?
No, you can increase your MMR even in games where you were expected to win. You just have to far exceed the system's expectations for that match.
Do you have a source for this?
D M4N8 wrote:
Nepxcal wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
Oh. So is that how this system works? You only go up in MMR if the system didn't expected you to win?
No, you can increase your MMR even in games where you were expected to win. You just have to far exceed the system's expectations for that match.
Do you have a source for this?
I believe it was mentioned in the previous matchmaking thread, but I don't have a direct link for that :/
Nepxcal wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
Nepxcal wrote:
D M4N8 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
To me , in ranked playlists winning is everything . Winning is skill; it just doesn’t make sense to use a system that awards you only 1 for a win and 15 for a loss . This is simple , win is a win , and winning represents skill no matter how you slice it.
Winning when already expected to win means the system already knows your skill and it hasn't changed.

Also, it's not a "reward" system so saying "awards you" is misleading. It's a skill system. If you want to go up, you have to do more than just win (e.g. Onyx beating Plat doesn't mean anything), you have to win in a situation when you weren't expected to win already, thus meaning your skill estimate was underestimated, in which case it would need to go up.
Oh. So is that how this system works? You only go up in MMR if the system didn't expected you to win?
No, you can increase your MMR even in games where you were expected to win. You just have to far exceed the system's expectations for that match.
Do you have a source for this?
I believe it was mentioned in the previous matchmaking thread, but I don't have a direct link for that :/
Do you know what was meant by exceeding expectations? Seems kind of vague. A bit loose even.
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