Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 11

OP ZaedynFel

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Until 2-3 weeks ago, I was raging like Pablo here, I got even temporarily banned from the forums because of that. But then you just need to accept that Halo 5 is in the guinea pig status for 343i and we are lab rats.

I am not trying to say anything bad, but it's understandable that they are experimenting in the final years of Halo 5 because of the new Halo that is in development.

The irony would be if Halo Infinity ends up being a mess like Halo 5 was/is now.

But again, I can't stop raging when I get unranked or plats players in my squad against real diamonds or even onyxes.
QX wrote:
Wahadinho wrote:
That one is legit.

Most of the matches I saw are against unranked or platinums.

Btw, I tried that, to be honest, and I got bored because it is stale, not dynamic and the game is not pushing my limits. I basically can't improve fighting low skilled players.

For example, yesterday I played in my Fireteam with Champ and Onyx in slayer and we lost 2 games in a row by a big margin of my friends who are Diamonds, who my team beats every day, every map.

In the past it was like, when you see Champ, -Yoink- they destroy you, now with all of those carried Champs, you don't even know who is real and who is fake.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3dd8892a-d356-4387-a27d-8f53dde74292/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=35&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena(all of them get 15)
TS2.0 is inconsistent at many levels if you look most champion are smurfs or noobs who have 40% win ratio and 1.5 K/D.
Sometimes TS2.0 throw matches at you like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/1708e868-b7cd-4ade-8627-dad5bd416be5/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=3&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena (me and my team didn't play slayer for over a month)
Just want to clarify two things. But first that bronze is not acceptable and shows to me that those people are trying to game the system in a dumb way.

Anyway 1). A smurf is a second account purposefully made to rank low and play bad players like that bronze is there. However, a Smurf is not a player who made a second account on to play just as hard but doesn't want to ruin their main account by playing solo, wants to remain anonymous, or just feels like playing on a second tag. There is nothing wrong with that since your mmr is calculated so early now. The only bad thing is that it "takes" a champ rank away but any skilled player can "take" that champ in a playlist they don't play. Like how pros could be top 10 champs in any playlist but don't play them because they don't like them. I don't see anything wrong with alternate accounts.

2). Don't take champions who have low win % and kd as fake champs. For all you know they could be playing really good people where lower skilled players would get destroyed but they go even. They may also play solo and lose a lot of games. Go back to the pro example. In events they pros have around a 1 kd but in reality they are the most skilled players in the game and deserve the highest ranks.
the system can be broken very easily but the bronze player works only for champion players.
it is funny that 343i didn't want to show us how TS2.0 work out of fear but the players broke it after 1 months
QX wrote:
Wahadinho wrote:
That one is legit.

Most of the matches I saw are against unranked or platinums.

Btw, I tried that, to be honest, and I got bored because it is stale, not dynamic and the game is not pushing my limits. I basically can't improve fighting low skilled players.

For example, yesterday I played in my Fireteam with Champ and Onyx in slayer and we lost 2 games in a row by a big margin of my friends who are Diamonds, who my team beats every day, every map.

In the past it was like, when you see Champ, -Yoink- they destroy you, now with all of those carried Champs, you don't even know who is real and who is fake.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3dd8892a-d356-4387-a27d-8f53dde74292/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=35&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena(all of them get 15)
TS2.0 is inconsistent at many levels if you look most champion are smurfs or noobs who have 40% win ratio and 1.5 K/D.
Sometimes TS2.0 throw matches at you like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/1708e868-b7cd-4ade-8627-dad5bd416be5/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=3&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena (me and my team didn't play slayer for over a month)
Just want to clarify two things. But first that bronze is not acceptable and shows to me that those people are trying to game the system in a dumb way.

Anyway 1). A smurf is a second account purposefully made to rank low and play bad players like that bronze is there. However, a Smurf is not a player who made a second account on to play just as hard but doesn't want to ruin their main account by playing solo, wants to remain anonymous, or just feels like playing on a second tag. There is nothing wrong with that since your mmr is calculated so early now. The only bad thing is that it "takes" a champ rank away but any skilled player can "take" that champ in a playlist they don't play. Like how pros could be top 10 champs in any playlist but don't play them because they don't like them. I don't see anything wrong with alternate accounts.

2). Don't take champions who have low win % and kd as fake champs. For all you know they could be playing really good people where lower skilled players would get destroyed but they go even. They may also play solo and lose a lot of games. Go back to the pro example. In events they pros have around a 1 kd but in reality they are the most skilled players in the game and deserve the highest ranks.
2) Anyhow, those Champs needs to win something so they rank and stay there. Like this, it's terrible. I played with one Champ couple of nights ago. He wasn't even good, As I mentioned before. In many rounds, he was 2nd, 3rd and we even lost like 3-4 games out of Diamond players that I am beating with my Fireteam. He deranked only for one position in Champ Rankings after 3 losses. He even got 0.5KD in 2-3 matches when we even won... He, of course, moved up...

With 40% W/L ratio means that he's getting more CSR than he's losing, just because he was a champ once. As I said, most of them are not even good, they just exploited the game to place themselves there. Most of Champ players are -Yoink- and losing for average Diamond players all the time. Not only Champs, Onyxes too.
Wahadinho wrote:
QX wrote:
Wahadinho wrote:
That one is legit.

Most of the matches I saw are against unranked or platinums.

Btw, I tried that, to be honest, and I got bored because it is stale, not dynamic and the game is not pushing my limits. I basically can't improve fighting low skilled players.

For example, yesterday I played in my Fireteam with Champ and Onyx in slayer and we lost 2 games in a row by a big margin of my friends who are Diamonds, who my team beats every day, every map.

In the past it was like, when you see Champ, -Yoink- they destroy you, now with all of those carried Champs, you don't even know who is real and who is fake.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3dd8892a-d356-4387-a27d-8f53dde74292/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=35&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena(all of them get 15)
TS2.0 is inconsistent at many levels if you look most champion are smurfs or noobs who have 40% win ratio and 1.5 K/D.
Sometimes TS2.0 throw matches at you like this https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/1708e868-b7cd-4ade-8627-dad5bd416be5/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=3&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena (me and my team didn't play slayer for over a month)
Just want to clarify two things. But first that bronze is not acceptable and shows to me that those people are trying to game the system in a dumb way.

Anyway 1). A smurf is a second account purposefully made to rank low and play bad players like that bronze is there. However, a Smurf is not a player who made a second account on to play just as hard but doesn't want to ruin their main account by playing solo, wants to remain anonymous, or just feels like playing on a second tag. There is nothing wrong with that since your mmr is calculated so early now. The only bad thing is that it "takes" a champ rank away but any skilled player can "take" that champ in a playlist they don't play. Like how pros could be top 10 champs in any playlist but don't play them because they don't like them. I don't see anything wrong with alternate accounts.

2). Don't take champions who have low win % and kd as fake champs. For all you know they could be playing really good people where lower skilled players would get destroyed but they go even. They may also play solo and lose a lot of games. Go back to the pro example. In events they pros have around a 1 kd but in reality they are the most skilled players in the game and deserve the highest ranks.
2) Anyhow, those Champs needs to win something so they rank and stay there. Like this, it's terrible. I played with one Champ couple of nights ago. He wasn't even good, As I mentioned before. In many rounds, he was 2nd, 3rd and we even lost like 3-4 games out of Diamond players that I am beating with my Fireteam. He deranked only for one position in Champ Rankings after 3 losses. He even got 0.5KD in 2-3 matches when we even won... He, of course, moved up...

With 40% W/L ratio means that he's getting more CSR than he's losing, just because he was a champ once. As I said, most of them are not even good, they just exploited the game to place themselves there. Most of Champ players are -Yoink- and losing for average Diamond players all the time. Not only Champs, Onyxes too.
What playlist are you playing? Would give some context onto the caliber of champs.

Also for the champ you played with how many games did you play? Do you have a representative sample? Maybe he was having a bad day? I mean you are potentially eight but without data I can't just take something at face value.

Also remember that there are still a good amount of diamonds that are actually better than champs but haven't played enough games. So while their rank looks like you are matched with 4 diamonds against a champ and an onyx you may actually be matched with a champ and an on, but they haven't won enough games yet.
After 14 days of radio silence it would be cool to get a "were looking into it" update from 343.
After 14 days of radio silence it would be cool to get a "were looking into it" update from 343.
Dr Menke is a human with a life and a family. He has been on vacation. When he has time to check back in on the forums, he will do so..
Do not make nonconstructive posts.

Spoiler:
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BTW...for the amount of time that I have spent studying and analyzing TrueSkill2...it “Appears” Slayer is the only playlist that is impacted by this “glitch” where you don’t rank up
BTW...for the amount of time that I have spent studying and analyzing TrueSkill2...it “Appears” Slayer is the only playlist that is impacted by this “glitch” where you don’t rank up
I'm rank locked in Elimination. Won 20+ games straight on 7/14/18 even increased my KD from 1.5ish to 2.5ish, didnt rank up once.
1.Please explain the ranking system and why I can win three in a row and not rank up. Why I can have a 59% win percentage but not move past diamond three for the last two weeks.

2. Please explain to me why I should continue to play halo 5. <---- im just as serious with the second question as I am with the first.
1.Please explain the ranking system and why I can win three in a row and not rank up. Why I can have a 59% win percentage but not move past diamond three for the last two weeks.

2. Please explain to me why I should continue to play halo 5. <---- im just as serious with the second question as I am with the first.
The most detailed explanations are on the first 2 posts of the topics noted below, there are also additional explanations from Dr. Menke throughout those topics as well as over the last 10 or so pages of this topic. I can't help you with the second question
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%E2%80%93-may-7/da8b4ec4-ab45-4809-b6a3-f3bb5b27d8b4/postshttps://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%E2%80%93-may-21/7d3f6e81-5f9e-44f7-b5cf-30f85d13f320/posts
Another matched paired with people who are obviously not on my level of game play ( I am not great). It’s game after game of this. Also why are unranked playing against ranked? This uneven matchmaking is definitely leading to lesser players quitting. I can see there frustration. Who wants to be completely dominated? Just put it back. It was way way way better before.
tonedef56 wrote:
Another matched paired with people who are obviously not on my level of game play ( I am not great). It’s game after game of this. Also why are unranked playing against ranked? This uneven matchmaking is definitely leading to lesser players quitting. I can see there frustration. Who wants to be completely dominated? Just put it back. It was way way way better before.
Unranked simply means they haven't finished their placement matches. The Skill-Based Matchmaking doesn't match players based on CSR. It uses MMR (aka TrueSkill2) which doesn't reset seasonally. Complaining about unranked players is pretty ridiculous.
I have read the thread twice now and I still can't figure out whats causing me to go up only one point of CSR in FFA matches despite ranking 1st and 2nd most of the time. It seems impossible to rank up and when I take an L, I go down drastically.
Etharyx wrote:
I have read the thread twice now and I still can't figure out whats causing me to go up only one point of CSR in FFA matches despite ranking 1st and 2nd most of the time. It seems impossible to rank up and when I take an L, I go down drastically.
Your CSR is at or slightly above the level of your MMR. Think of your MMR as your actual skill level with CSR being a visible gauge of that skill level.

Now let's say you are diamond 5 in FFA and your MMR is 1500, which is equal to being at the very beginning of onyx. So since the system is going to try to match your CSR to that MMR. Your CSR is equal to around 1400. So if you got in the top 3 in FFA you would go up 15 CSR while if you ended in the bottom 3 you would go down 1. Now your CSR has reached an acceptable range around 1500. However, you keep getting in the top 3 since it's harder to find people better than you since FFA has a low population. Your CSR now goes to 1550 by winning a lot of games and only getting 1 CSR.

However, throughout all those games you have been performing just like the average 1500 onyx player would in each match. So your MMR is still 1500 but your CSR is 1550. Therefore the system tries to bring your CSR down to your MMR by only giving you 1 CSR for a win and losing 15 for loss( top 3 and bottom 3 in FFA). That's fair since your skill level is only onyx 1500 so your rank shouldn't be inflated.

But let's say after a week of FFA you have gotten better and now you play like the average player with an MMR of 1600. Then your MMR will increase to 1600 quickly while your CSR goes up slower until you hit your new MMR at 1600. It could happen the same thing way but in the reverse direction if you play worse due to a break or you hurt your hand.

Also winning does not always increase your MMR more than a point or two since if you won but had a scoreline of an average onyx 1500 player then your skill level would be 1500.

If you want to rank up a considerable amount then you need to show the system that you perform on the same level as the average player of a higher skill. Yeah maybe you went 25 and 4 in that FFA, but if a player of your skill level was expected to do that and a player of higher skill would have gone 25 and 2 while also finishing the game 3 minutes earlier do you deserve the skill level you have or an increased one?
QX wrote:
Etharyx wrote:
I have read the thread twice now and I still can't figure out whats causing me to go up only one point of CSR in FFA matches despite ranking 1st and 2nd most of the time. It seems impossible to rank up and when I take an L, I go down drastically.
... So if you got in the top 3 in FFA you would go up 15 CSR while if you ended in the bottom 3 you would go down 1....
However, you keep getting in the top 3 since it's harder to find people better than you since FFA has a low population. Your CSR now goes to 1550 by winning a lot of games and only getting 1 CSR
This is false. The H5 FFA does not treat CSR/MMR like H3 FFA top 3 W/L. His recent games are also competitive. He's playing mostly other onyx or high diamond players.
QX wrote:
But let's say after a week of FFA you have gotten better and now you play like the average player with an MMR of 1600. Then your MMR will increase to 1600 quickly while your CSR goes up slower until you hit your new MMR at 1600. It could happen the same thing way but in the reverse direction if you play worse due to a break or you hurt your hand.

Also winning does not always increase your MMR more than a point or two since if you won but had a scoreline of an average onyx 1500 player then your skill level would be 1500.

If you want to rank up a considerable amount then you need to show the system that you perform on the same level as the average player of a higher skill. Yeah maybe you went 25 and 4 in that FFA, but if a player of your skill level was expected to do that and a player of higher skill would have gone 25 and 2 while also finishing the game 3 minutes earlier do you deserve the skill level you have or an increased one?
True although I can understand why it's a hard pill for Sniper to swallow. If you look at his recent game history, Sniper has won a couple games against higher or similarly ranked players - it would be difficult to envision a justification how finishing above a higher ranked player would be "underperforming."

It is likely that he is only going +1 despite winning because he is playing an extreme high kill, high death play style - similar to what QX suspects. Worth noting that this play style has been effective for him in recent games because, again, he's winning. He actually won a match with 25 kills and 27 deaths. Deaths don't matter in FFA. So Sniper, long story short, the current MMR algorithm says your current stats don't warrant the rank increase, regardless of whether you outperformed your opponents and won the game. You aren't ranking up because of style points, essentially.

QX's comment about needing to show the system you perform as a higher skill player is correct- although I likely would be in agreement with you that how the system currently determines that is short-sighted. In general, I haven't found it to be consistently accurate.
QX wrote:
Etharyx wrote:
I have read the thread twice now and I still can't figure out whats causing me to go up only one point of CSR in FFA matches despite ranking 1st and 2nd most of the time. It seems impossible to rank up and when I take an L, I go down drastically.
... So if you got in the top 3 in FFA you would go up 15 CSR while if you ended in the bottom 3 you would go down 1....
However, you keep getting in the top 3 since it's harder to find people better than you since FFA has a low population. Your CSR now goes to 1550 by winning a lot of games and only getting 1 CSR
This is false. The H5 FFA does not treat CSR/MMR like H3 FFA top 3 W/L. His recent games are also competitive. He's playing mostly other onyx or high diamond players.
QX wrote:
But let's say after a week of FFA you have gotten better and now you play like the average player with an MMR of 1600. Then your MMR will increase to 1600 quickly while your CSR goes up slower until you hit your new MMR at 1600. It could happen the same thing way but in the reverse direction if you play worse due to a break or you hurt your hand.

Also winning does not always increase your MMR more than a point or two since if you won but had a scoreline of an average onyx 1500 player then your skill level would be 1500.

If you want to rank up a considerable amount then you need to show the system that you perform on the same level as the average player of a higher skill. Yeah maybe you went 25 and 4 in that FFA, but if a player of your skill level was expected to do that and a player of higher skill would have gone 25 and 2 while also finishing the game 3 minutes earlier do you deserve the skill level you have or an increased one?
True although I can understand why it's a hard pill for Sniper to swallow. If you look at his recent game history, Sniper has won a couple games against higher or similarly ranked players - it would be difficult to envision a justification how finishing above a higher ranked player would be "underperforming."

It is likely that he is only going +1 despite winning because he is playing an extreme high kill, high death play style - similar to what QX suspects. Worth noting that this play style has been effective for him in recent games because, again, he's winning. He actually won a match with 25 kills and 27 deaths. Deaths don't matter in FFA. So Sniper, long story short, the current MMR algorithm says your current stats don't warrant the rank increase, regardless of whether you outperformed your opponents and won the game. You aren't ranking up because of style points, essentially.

QX's comment about needing to show the system you perform as a higher skill player is correct- although I likely would be in agreement with you that how the system currently determines that is short-sighted. In general, I haven't found it to be consistently accurate.
To be honest I don't know if FFA is strict top three go up bottom three go down but that's just what I've seen this season but that could be just coincidence. Idk. I know previous season you could go up even in 5th place.

Yeah the current system feels bad to play sometimes which is a criticism I have if it.

Yeah deaths don't matter for FFA but considering that Josh has mentioned that both KPM and DPM are the most accurate stats to decide who will win if sniper is dying a lot then he won't be getting kills as fast because of the death screen and not having power weapon or map control. So while playing flashy might not rank you up playing your life and staying alive for more time generates more possibilities for kills.

I agree that the current system can feel less than enjoyable at times because we were so used to a ladder system essentially. However remember that the current system is only correct about two thirds of the time, which is up from half. So overall 1/3rd of your games are going to be incorrectly calculated and it will choose the wrong person as the "predetermined" winner.
You guys are over-complicating it, he's not ranking up because he would be completely over his head if he went any higher.

Champ starts at 1750 and those guys are in the 25-60% win rate area, so it wouldn't make sense for him to go much past 1600 CSR when he's only at 16%.

It's not a matter of "style points," it's simply that within the next 100 MMR/CSR is where there's a huge jump in skill, and 16% win rate (which already implies a slow kpm in ffa) isn't even in the right ballpark for competing. The only thing that winning a FFA game with 27 deaths shows is that you were slow but your opponents were slower, nobody in that match should be getting into Champion ranks regardless of playstyle.
can u tell me my MMR in slayer e arena?
You guys are over-complicating it, he's not ranking up because he would be completely over his head if he went any higher.

Champ starts at 1750 and those guys are in the 25-60% win rate area, so it wouldn't make sense for him to go much past 1600 CSR when he's only at 16%.

It's not a matter of "style points," it's simply that within the next 100 MMR/CSR is where there's a huge jump in skill, and 16% win rate (which already implies a slow kpm in ffa) isn't even in the right ballpark for competing. The only thing that winning a FFA game with 27 deaths shows is that you were slow but your opponents were slower, nobody in that match should be getting into Champion ranks regardless of playstyle.
There was a champ in that 27 death match (he finished last)....

Should Shooter be in champ? No. Should he/anyone go up more than +1 if he is beating higher ranked people in a short run of games? Yes, especially in this MMR=CSR world. I'm not implying anything more than that.
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