Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 11

OP ZaedynFel

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https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/3fed6ddc-2f42-4fa9-9445-757f6a226027/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=3&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/dccd2e78-5792-4825-a296-d9436d163adb/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=2&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/04426643-57d9-472c-b39e-cee5fc6ca413/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=1&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
https://www.halowaypoint.com/it-it/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/790cf237-8238-4adb-bad5-e62238953a4a/players/nbk%20darkwarlock?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena
Total point earn or lost 0, 2 players without rank and lagging matches.
Thank you 343i
Ok ts2 masterpieces!
O points to every player tonight!!!!
Win the games and 0 points!!!!
I think there s some trouble!
Zeropare wrote:
Ok ts2 masterpieces!
O points to every player tonight!!!!
Win the games and 0 points!!!!
I think there s some trouble!
Same here. It is really frustrating since i had a good team today and a win streak in team arena. Really annoying!
Why is every player gaining 0 csr win or lose? i dont understand....all ranks not just onyx.
Great! Now I'm gaining 0 CSR. Now I'm really confused.
Some routine maintenance on the Skill service resulted in slower rank updates for some. It should be catching up soon if not already.
Just my 2 cents, but TS2, while certainly accurate, is not fun. I wish 343 would use an algorithm that showed whether or not I would enjoy their new ranked system.
I don't know but its still not working for me still getting 0 csr for a win and 0 csr for losing.
Hey Dr. Menke, have I finally hit my true rank? Won quite a few tonight except one, still at 1984! Though the players I beat were lower ranked, csn possibly be the reason why? Just curious, thanks!
BTW...for the amount of time that I have spent studying and analyzing TrueSkill2...it “Appears” Slayer is the only playlist that is impacted by this “glitch” where you don’t rank up
Nope. Swat is completley messed up. I can win 15 out of 20 games and lose rank. Even having good to great games and beating a higher ranked teams. It ranks me up when it wants I guess
Chiming in here, 30+ games of Team Arena yesterday - no movement off Gold 5. Really infuriating. Heres hoping the CSR is just DELAYED and not lost entirely. Is there anywhere we can watch for updates on this?
how it can be so long
Just played another few, no changes. : /
That's work again thanks 343
Changes coming in now for me too. Not past data, but new games. Seems all back to order.

EDIT: For those curious, looks like MMR updated but CSR didn't for the past ~17 hours. According to Menke, these changes should be reflected in CSR relatively quickly as the system averages out your new games (or at least thats how I took his tweet to me!)

https://i.imgur.com/D2fDKH9.png
i suppose the matches i played yesterday are lost forever
This ranking system is beyond frustrating, and frankly, based on what I’ve seen this season, broken for high diamond/onyx players. Allow me to elaborate:

I was placed 1300 D3 in Slayer, meaning that at a minimum my MMR was 1500 onyx at the time of placement. In the 52 matches post-placement, my record is 40 and 12 (76.9% win percentage), with a KD of 1.49 and avg stats of 12.53 kills, 8.39 deaths, and 7.25 assists per game (positive 4.14 per game). To further break it down, in the 40 wins my KD is 1.7 (positive 5.28 per game), and in the 12 losses my KD is 1.00 (even spread exactly).

Despite overwhelmingly positive individual stats and winning percentage, my MMR has actually gone DOWN. My current CSR is 1440, and in my most recent match I won and only gained +1 CSR, meaning my MMR was lower than 1439 before the match. So despite a 1.49 KD and 76.9% winning percentage, my MMR has gone DOWN from a minimum of 1500 onyx all the way to 1440 D5. This makes absolutely zero sense.

The grind is also ridiculously slow and makes no sense. As noted above, I’m winning most games and going positive. But in my 40 wins, only 17 times did I go up in rank (+15 CSR) vs 23 times getting only +1 CSR (only ranking up 43% of my wins). Conversely, of my 12 losses, 9 resulted in -15 CSR vs 3 at -1 (ranking down 75% of my losses).

Where is the incentive to play when I keep winning and my MMR actually went DOWN?

Another thing that doesn’t make sense to my friend and I, is our CSR gains last night. We played 11 games with 8 and 3 record. I started at CSR 1463, and lost 23 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1440 (1 win +15, 7 wins +1, 3 losses -15). My KD was 1.45. My teammate started at CSR 1425, and gained 75 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1500 (6 wins +15, 2 wins +1, 1 loss -15, 2 losses -1). His KD was 1.53. We played pretty similar on the night, yet he went from D5 to Onyx, and I went from D6 to D5. Huh?!?!
bearhound wrote:
This ranking system is beyond frustrating, and frankly, based on what I’ve seen this season, broken for high diamond/onyx players. Allow me to elaborate:
I was placed 1300 D3 in Slayer, meaning that at a minimum my MMR was 1500 onyx at the time of placement. In the 52 matches post-placement, my record is 40 and 12 (76.9% win percentage), with a KD of 1.49 and avg stats of 12.53 kills, 8.39 deaths, and 7.25 assists per game (positive 4.14 per game). To further break it down, in the 40 wins my KD is 1.7 (positive 5.28 per game), and in the 12 losses my KD is 1.00 (even spread exactly).
Despite overwhelmingly positive individual stats and winning percentage, my MMR has actually gone DOWN. My current CSR is 1440, and in my most recent match I won and only gained +1 CSR, meaning my MMR was lower than 1439 before the match. So despite a 1.49 KD and 76.9% winning percentage, my MMR has gone DOWN from a minimum of 1500 onyx all the way to 1440 D5. This makes absolutely zero sense.
The grind is also ridiculously slow and makes no sense. As noted above, I’m winning most games and going positive. But in my 40 wins, only 17 times did I go up in rank (+15 CSR) vs 23 times getting only +1 CSR (only ranking up 43% of my wins). Conversely, of my 12 losses, 9 resulted in -15 CSR vs 3 at -1 (ranking down 75% of my losses).
Where is the incentive to play when I keep winning and my MMR actually went DOWN?
Another thing that doesn’t make sense to my friend and I, is our CSR gains last night. We played 11 games with 8 and 3 record. I started at CSR 1463, and lost 23 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1440 (1 win +15, 7 wins +1, 3 losses -15). My KD was 1.45. My teammate started at CSR 1425, and gained 75 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1500 (6 wins +15, 2 wins +1, 1 loss -15, 2 losses -1). His KD was 1.53. We played pretty similar on the night, yet he went from D5 to Onyx, and I went from D6 to D5. Huh?!?!
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
bearhound wrote:
This ranking system is beyond frustrating, and frankly, based on what I’ve seen this season, broken for high diamond/onyx players. Allow me to elaborate:
I was placed 1300 D3 in Slayer, meaning that at a minimum my MMR was 1500 onyx at the time of placement. In the 52 matches post-placement, my record is 40 and 12 (76.9% win percentage), with a KD of 1.49 and avg stats of 12.53 kills, 8.39 deaths, and 7.25 assists per game (positive 4.14 per game). To further break it down, in the 40 wins my KD is 1.7 (positive 5.28 per game), and in the 12 losses my KD is 1.00 (even spread exactly).
Despite overwhelmingly positive individual stats and winning percentage, my MMR has actually gone DOWN. My current CSR is 1440, and in my most recent match I won and only gained +1 CSR, meaning my MMR was lower than 1439 before the match. So despite a 1.49 KD and 76.9% winning percentage, my MMR has gone DOWN from a minimum of 1500 onyx all the way to 1440 D5. This makes absolutely zero sense.
The grind is also ridiculously slow and makes no sense. As noted above, I’m winning most games and going positive. But in my 40 wins, only 17 times did I go up in rank (+15 CSR) vs 23 times getting only +1 CSR (only ranking up 43% of my wins). Conversely, of my 12 losses, 9 resulted in -15 CSR vs 3 at -1 (ranking down 75% of my losses).
Where is the incentive to play when I keep winning and my MMR actually went DOWN?
Another thing that doesn’t make sense to my friend and I, is our CSR gains last night. We played 11 games with 8 and 3 record. I started at CSR 1463, and lost 23 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1440 (1 win +15, 7 wins +1, 3 losses -15). My KD was 1.45. My teammate started at CSR 1425, and gained 75 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1500 (6 wins +15, 2 wins +1, 1 loss -15, 2 losses -1). His KD was 1.53. We played pretty similar on the night, yet he went from D5 to Onyx, and I went from D6 to D5. Huh?!?!
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
Yes.

The average low Onyx player does 1.68 kills per minute against upper Diamond, whereas bearhound, you are doing 1.42.

The average upper Diamond player does 1.44 kills per minute against upper Diamond.

So your in-game performance is almost exactly the same as the average upper Diamond player.

Onyx players also do 1.83 vs. lower Diamond, whereas you are at 1.72.

You have actually only played a full Onyx team once, and lost with 0.83 kpm.

So right now, TS2 feels that although you win well against Diamond, you would struggle against Onyx with those kpms.

The nice thing about TS2 is if this isn't accounting for your win% well enough, it can re-adapt to that in future batch runs. We periodically do batch runs that recalibrate TS2's model settings based on more recent data.
bearhound wrote:
This ranking system is beyond frustrating, and frankly, based on what I’ve seen this season, broken for high diamond/onyx players. Allow me to elaborate:
I was placed 1300 D3 in Slayer, meaning that at a minimum my MMR was 1500 onyx at the time of placement. In the 52 matches post-placement, my record is 40 and 12 (76.9% win percentage), with a KD of 1.49 and avg stats of 12.53 kills, 8.39 deaths, and 7.25 assists per game (positive 4.14 per game). To further break it down, in the 40 wins my KD is 1.7 (positive 5.28 per game), and in the 12 losses my KD is 1.00 (even spread exactly).
Despite overwhelmingly positive individual stats and winning percentage, my MMR has actually gone DOWN. My current CSR is 1440, and in my most recent match I won and only gained +1 CSR, meaning my MMR was lower than 1439 before the match. So despite a 1.49 KD and 76.9% winning percentage, my MMR has gone DOWN from a minimum of 1500 onyx all the way to 1440 D5. This makes absolutely zero sense.
The grind is also ridiculously slow and makes no sense. As noted above, I’m winning most games and going positive. But in my 40 wins, only 17 times did I go up in rank (+15 CSR) vs 23 times getting only +1 CSR (only ranking up 43% of my wins). Conversely, of my 12 losses, 9 resulted in -15 CSR vs 3 at -1 (ranking down 75% of my losses).
Where is the incentive to play when I keep winning and my MMR actually went DOWN?
Another thing that doesn’t make sense to my friend and I, is our CSR gains last night. We played 11 games with 8 and 3 record. I started at CSR 1463, and lost 23 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1440 (1 win +15, 7 wins +1, 3 losses -15). My KD was 1.45. My teammate started at CSR 1425, and gained 75 CSR on the night, ending at CSR 1500 (6 wins +15, 2 wins +1, 1 loss -15, 2 losses -1). His KD was 1.53. We played pretty similar on the night, yet he went from D5 to Onyx, and I went from D6 to D5. Huh?!?!
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
As the second poster has said it's KPM and DPM that the system uses to determine which team will win and partly describes your skill level. So giving k/d doesn't really give a good sense of how well you are doing. Additionally those stats are also determined on who you play. So if you only played pros you could be expected to only get 1 kill a minute, but still go up in MMR if you got 2 kpm but only went 8 and 16.

The only explaination I can offer for why your friend went up in csr and you didn't is that he hasn't played too many games of slayer and hasn't reached his actual MMR yet so the system still wants to bump him up. You mention how he had a k/d better than you but maybe his KPM and DPM had a higher degree of difference than just straight k/d would show.

However I do have a theory as to why certain skill levels that aren't the very top of the game have really high skill levels. First off it could just be the population of the game. But I'm also wondering if the fact that very highly skilled players only have a limited amount of players the matchmaker can play them against then makes those players slightly beneath the top of the game match those higher skilled opponents more often. This then results in high diamond/low onyx players matching people better than them less often leading to inflated win percentages without a CSR gain. Obviously I have no data for this and it might be bogus but I thought it could partly explain win percentages of players your skill level.
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