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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 11

OP ZaedynFel

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QX wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
As the second poster has said it's KPM and DPM that the system uses to determine which team will win and partly describes your skill level. So giving k/d doesn't really give a good sense of how well you are doing. Additionally those stats are also determined on who you play. So if you only played pros you could be expected to only get 1 kill a minute, but still go up in MMR if you got 2 kpm but only went 8 and 16.

The only explaination I can offer for why your friend went up in csr and you didn't is that he hasn't played too many games of slayer and hasn't reached his actual MMR yet so the system still wants to bump him up. You mention how he had a k/d better than you but maybe his KPM and DPM had a higher degree of difference than just straight k/d would show.

However I do have a theory as to why certain skill levels that aren't the very top of the game have really high skill levels. First off it could just be the population of the game. But I'm also wondering if the fact that very highly skilled players only have a limited amount of players the matchmaker can play them against then makes those players slightly beneath the top of the game match those higher skilled opponents more often. This then results in high diamond/low onyx players matching people better than them less often leading to inflated win percentages without a CSR gain. Obviously I have no data for this and it might be bogus but I thought it could partly explain win percentages of players your skill level.
Specifically to your second paragraph (in bold), my friend and I have played the exact same games this season. We have only played when the other is online, so we have the exact same matches played against the exact same opponents. In our 52 post-placement matches he has 657 kills and I have 639 (a difference of 0.35 kills per game). I can't imagine this would have a significant difference on kills per minute (definitely not enough to have him a full rank ahead of me). Especially considering that TS2 also factors in deaths (which is why I mentioned KD ratio), and in post-placement matches his KD is 1.42 vs mine is 1.49. Frankly we both consider him the better player (although only very slightly, our stats are usually very similar), but for this season specifically we both know I have the better stats (not by much though), so to us we feel like we should either be the same rank or me just slightly ahead. It just doesn't make sense.
Advancing in rank based on winning is an outdated concept. It always feels good when you can't advance or regress. Your rank moving should be fun and surprising. Who doesn't like surprises?
ZaedynFel wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
Yes.

The average low Onyx player does 1.68 kills per minute against upper Diamond, whereas bearhound, you are doing 1.42.

The average upper Diamond player does 1.44 kills per minute against upper Diamond.

So your in-game performance is almost exactly the same as the average upper Diamond player.

Onyx players also do 1.83 vs. lower Diamond, whereas you are at 1.72.

You have actually only played a full Onyx team once, and lost with 0.83 kpm.

So right now, TS2 feels that although you win well against Diamond, you would struggle against Onyx with those kpms.

The nice thing about TS2 is if this isn't accounting for your win% well enough, it can re-adapt to that in future batch runs. We periodically do batch runs that recalibrate TS2's model settings based on more recent data.
Thanks for the response. While I understand that my kills per minute are consistent with upper diamond, the explanation above does not change my thoughts on the ranking system being broken for high level players. And I fundamentally disagree with using individual stats, like kills per minute, to determine rank in a team playlist.

My friend and I, who play every match together, have one goal - to rank up. It's beyond frustrating to win and go positive over and over and not go up. As you've said previously in other threads, your goal for the ranking system is to accurately rank people, and if you're ranking people on individual stats and stuff like kills per minute, then the ranking system is working fine. I disagree, however. First off, as I've said before, in a team playlist I believe the only thing that matters is winning. If you win, you should rank up and be ranked against higher ranked players. Eventually you will lose more than you win and rank down. To my friend and I that is the perfect ranking system. Taking individual stats into account, especially kills per minute, means that you need to play to kill, play to be aggressive, not play to win. Instead of sitting back and supporting a sniper teammate and helping maintain map control, I am individually better off by increasing my kills per minute and playing hyper agro. From a team standpoint my friend is better with rockets, so I should let him have them. But individually I'm better off taking them for myself and increasing my kills per minute. That has no place in a team playlist. (again, everything i'm saying is IMO).

Enough about my thoughts on how players are ranked though. I don't think we'll ever agree on that. What I want to focus on now is my assertion that, beyond the fact that I disagree about how players are ranked, I still believe the ranking/matchmaking system is broken for high level players. Based on your post, the matchmaker/TS2 is doing its job correctly, and my stats are right in line with my rank. But I'm absolutely killing it. 76.9% win percentage. Average spread of positive 4.14 in every game. And yet I'm not ranking up because I'm performing how TS2 thinks I'll perform. You say yourself that I only played a full Onyx team once. WHY?!?! The matchmaker has failed me by not letting me play better players. As I said in the previous paragraph, if you're ranking up after wins, eventually you'll lose more than you win (because you'll be matched against better players) and rank down. But the matchmaker won't let us play better players. We continue stomping on teams and going positive, but it's what TS2 thinks we should do so we don't go up. How can we prove ourselves if all we do is win because we won't match against better players? That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it. The matchmaking system is failing me this season. I would rather be stuck and D5/6 with a 50% win rate because I can't beat onyx players, than keep winning against low diamond and go nowhere. Especially because I'm in a team playlist, and I'm playing well enough to win the game. I don't know if it's due to population (ie. there are no onyx players for us to prove ourselves against) or due to TS2 keeping me against diamond players because TS2 says i'm diamond, but either way it is broken for me IMO.
Wow, the site is finally back.

Just wanna say that I hope we can get a new thread on Monday.
Can someone please explain why i havent gained amy csr over 4 wins?

My k/d for the past 4 slayer games in descending order was 14-4, 23-5, 15-8, 9-9
We won all of these games too so why no csr?
bearhound wrote:
QX wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
As the second poster has said it's KPM and DPM that the system uses to determine which team will win and partly describes your skill level. So giving k/d doesn't really give a good sense of how well you are doing. Additionally those stats are also determined on who you play. So if you only played pros you could be expected to only get 1 kill a minute, but still go up in MMR if you got 2 kpm but only went 8 and 16.

The only explaination I can offer for why your friend went up in csr and you didn't is that he hasn't played too many games of slayer and hasn't reached his actual MMR yet so the system still wants to bump him up. You mention how he had a k/d better than you but maybe his KPM and DPM had a higher degree of difference than just straight k/d would show.However I do have a theory as to why certain skill levels that aren't the very top of the game have really high skill levels. First off it could just be the population of the game. But I'm also wondering if the fact that very highly skilled players only have a limited amount of players the matchmaker can play them against then makes those players slightly beneath the top of the game match those higher skilled opponents more often. This then results in high diamond/low onyx players matching people better than them less often leading to inflated win percentages without a CSR gain. Obviously I have no data for this and it might be bogus but I thought it could partly explain win percentages of players your skill level.
Specifically to your second paragraph (in bold), my friend and I have played the exact same games this season. We have only played when the other is online, so we have the exact same matches played against the exact same opponents. In our 52 post-placement matches he has 657 kills and I have 639 (a difference of 0.35 kills per game). I can't imagine this would have a significant difference on kills per minute (definitely not enough to have him a full rank ahead of me). Especially considering that TS2 also factors in deaths (which is why I mentioned KD ratio), and in post-placement matches his KD is 1.42 vs mine is 1.49. Frankly we both consider him the better player (although only very slightly, our stats are usually very similar), but for this season specifically we both know I have the better stats (not by much though), so to us we feel like we should either be the same rank or me just slightly ahead. It just doesn't make sense.
the only reason i can think is he played better against high diamond and onyx players and you played better against low/mid diamond players
How much less predictive does TS2 become if kill rates and other time dependent metrics are removed? The idea of rewarding certain types of play rather than relying purely on results (W/L and to a lesser extent kda, k/g vs certain types of opponents) seems like a narrow interpretation of skill.

Unrelated- I've noticed a lot of low win% players on the leaderboards. Is it possible the party modifiers are suboptimal? I ask this with some degree of confidence, as I won't rank up w/ a squad, but will playing solo. Since I'm still the same player, I can only assume the current TS2 is over/under-rewarding party size.
bearhound wrote:
The matchmaker has failed me by not letting me play better players. As I said in the previous paragraph, if you're ranking up after wins, eventually you'll lose more than you win (because you'll be matched against better players) and rank down. But the matchmaker won't let us play better players. We continue stomping on teams and going positive, but it's what TS2 thinks we should do so we don't go up. How can we prove ourselves if all we do is win because we won't match against better players? That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it.
And why do you think you're being matched against lower skilled players? Because at your skill level, there exists far less higher-skilled players, and more less-skilled players. Josh just confirmed you're playing at upper-diamond skill. Onyx is intended to be the top 10%, so let's say upper Diamond is 15% (that number is slightly off; I don't have the exact percentile on hand).

The matchmaker looks for players within 1 tier (standard deviation) of your skill. Normally that would mean you could match players from upper Platinum to Onyx. But because of the lower population, in order to allow high (and low) skilled players to find a game, they had to put a skill cap on players looking for matches (in Slayer, this cap is set to roughly mid-Diamond 4). This means in reality, you'll match anywhere from mid Platinum to Champ 1.

Just as a note, a completely average player (Platinum 1) can match two-thirds of the population (68%).
A Diamond 1 can match 47% of the population, 70% of which are less skilled.
And Onyx 1500 can match 16% of the population, 85% of which are less skilled.

This is why there exists a skill cap on attempts to find matches.

This isn't a fault of the skill system. It's not even really a fault of the matchmaking system. Its the fault of current population levels.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
bearhound wrote:
QX wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
i think TS2.0 give more importance to the KPM because i was placed diamond 3 and after 20 i will become onyx but i have a better KPM than you
As the second poster has said it's KPM and DPM that the system uses to determine which team will win and partly describes your skill level. So giving k/d doesn't really give a good sense of how well you are doing. Additionally those stats are also determined on who you play. So if you only played pros you could be expected to only get 1 kill a minute, but still go up in MMR if you got 2 kpm but only went 8 and 16.

The only explaination I can offer for why your friend went up in csr and you didn't is that he hasn't played too many games of slayer and hasn't reached his actual MMR yet so the system still wants to bump him up. You mention how he had a k/d better than you but maybe his KPM and DPM had a higher degree of difference than just straight k/d would show.However I do have a theory as to why certain skill levels that aren't the very top of the game have really high skill levels. First off it could just be the population of the game. But I'm also wondering if the fact that very highly skilled players only have a limited amount of players the matchmaker can play them against then makes those players slightly beneath the top of the game match those higher skilled opponents more often. This then results in high diamond/low onyx players matching people better than them less often leading to inflated win percentages without a CSR gain. Obviously I have no data for this and it might be bogus but I thought it could partly explain win percentages of players your skill level.
Specifically to your second paragraph (in bold), my friend and I have played the exact same games this season. We have only played when the other is online, so we have the exact same matches played against the exact same opponents. In our 52 post-placement matches he has 657 kills and I have 639 (a difference of 0.35 kills per game). I can't imagine this would have a significant difference on kills per minute (definitely not enough to have him a full rank ahead of me). Especially considering that TS2 also factors in deaths (which is why I mentioned KD ratio), and in post-placement matches his KD is 1.42 vs mine is 1.49. Frankly we both consider him the better player (although only very slightly, our stats are usually very similar), but for this season specifically we both know I have the better stats (not by much though), so to us we feel like we should either be the same rank or me just slightly ahead. It just doesn't make sense.
the only reason i can think is he played better against high diamond and onyx players and you played better against low/mid diamond players
Yeah, we were thinking that too. But then that also opens up the flip side, of if our stats are the same but he is better against high diamond, that means he’s playing bad against low diamond. All very confusing.
bearhound wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
Yes.

The average low Onyx player does 1.68 kills per minute against upper Diamond, whereas bearhound, you are doing 1.42.

The average upper Diamond player does 1.44 kills per minute against upper Diamond.

So your in-game performance is almost exactly the same as the average upper Diamond player.

Onyx players also do 1.83 vs. lower Diamond, whereas you are at 1.72.

You have actually only played a full Onyx team once, and lost with 0.83 kpm.

So right now, TS2 feels that although you win well against Diamond, you would struggle against Onyx with those kpms.

The nice thing about TS2 is if this isn't accounting for your win% well enough, it can re-adapt to that in future batch runs. We periodically do batch runs that recalibrate TS2's model settings based on more recent data.
Thanks for the response. While I understand that my kills per minute are consistent with upper diamond, the explanation above does not change my thoughts on the ranking system being broken for high level players. And I fundamentally disagree with using individual stats, like kills per minute, to determine rank in a team playlist.

My friend and I, who play every match together, have one goal - to rank up. It's beyond frustrating to win and go positive over and over and not go up. As you've said previously in other threads, your goal for the ranking system is to accurately rank people, and if you're ranking people on individual stats and stuff like kills per minute, then the ranking system is working fine. I disagree, however. First off, as I've said before, in a team playlist I believe the only thing that matters is winning. If you win, you should rank up and be ranked against higher ranked players. Eventually you will lose more than you win and rank down. To my friend and I that is the perfect ranking system. Taking individual stats into account, especially kills per minute, means that you need to play to kill, play to be aggressive, not play to win. Instead of sitting back and supporting a sniper teammate and helping maintain map control, I am individually better off by increasing my kills per minute and playing hyper agro. From a team standpoint my friend is better with rockets, so I should let him have them. But individually I'm better off taking them for myself and increasing my kills per minute. That has no place in a team playlist. (again, everything i'm saying is IMO).
100% I agree with this last paragraph! In previous seasons I wouldn’t mind if I put 4 shots on a player and my teammate gets the kill after I give a callout (in a team game I am happy to win). Now i find myself not calling people out so that i can get the kill. I actually get upset when i have somebody 1 shot and my teammate steals the kill. I don’t callout overshield or camo unless i am dead and it is a very close game. Along with all of the things in the post above about supporting your teammate with power weapons, playing the map and protecting your teammates against a flank, grabbing or not grabbing rockets to let another teammate get them. The list goes on and on about how TS2 does not encourage team play in halo( a game where callouts and team shooting are essential to winning).
bearhound wrote:
The matchmaker has failed me by not letting me play better players. As I said in the previous paragraph, if you're ranking up after wins, eventually you'll lose more than you win (because you'll be matched against better players) and rank down. But the matchmaker won't let us play better players. We continue stomping on teams and going positive, but it's what TS2 thinks we should do so we don't go up. How can we prove ourselves if all we do is win because we won't match against better players? That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it.
And why do you think you're being matched against lower skilled players? Because at your skill level, there exists far less higher-skilled players, and more less-skilled players. Josh just confirmed you're playing at upper-diamond skill. Onyx is intended to be the top 10%, so let's say upper Diamond is 15% (that number is slightly off; I don't have the exact percentile on hand).

The matchmaker looks for players within 1 tier (standard deviation) of your skill. Normally that would mean you could match players from upper Platinum to Onyx. But because of the lower population, in order to allow high (and low) skilled players to find a game, they had to put a skill cap on players looking for matches (in Slayer, this cap is set to roughly mid-Diamond 4). This means in reality, you'll match anywhere from mid Platinum to Champ 1.

Just as a note, a completely average player (Platinum 1) can match two-thirds of the population (68%).
A Diamond 1 can match 47% of the population, 70% of which are less skilled.
And Onyx 1500 can match 16% of the population, 85% of which are less skilled.

This is why there exists a skill cap on attempts to find matches.

This isn't a fault of the skill system. It's not even really a fault of the matchmaking system. Its the fault of current population levels.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
You literally cut off the rest of my quote. “That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it. The matchmaking system is failing me this season. I would rather be stuck and D5/6 with a 50% win rate because I can't beat onyx players, than keep winning against low diamond and go nowhere. Especially because I'm in a team playlist, and I'm playing well enough to win the game. I don't know if it's due to population (ie. there are no onyx players for us to prove ourselves against) or due to TS2 keeping me against diamond players because TS2 says i'm diamond, but either way it is broken for me IMO.
What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
The question wasn't posed to me- but if I play ranked, I want to play in games where there is a plausible opportunity to rank up. Otherwise, you are mostly wasting my time.
TR0K3S wrote:
bearhound wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
...
...

My friend and I, who play every match together, have one goal - to rank up. It's beyond frustrating to win and go positive over and over and not go up. As you've said previously in other threads, your goal for the ranking system is to accurately rank people, and if you're ranking people on individual stats and stuff like kills per minute, then the ranking system is working fine. I disagree, however. First off, as I've said before, in a team playlist I believe the only thing that matters is winning. If you win, you should rank up and be ranked against higher ranked players. Eventually you will lose more than you win and rank down. To my friend and I that is the perfect ranking system. Taking individual stats into account, especially kills per minute, means that you need to play to kill, play to be aggressive, not play to win. Instead of sitting back and supporting a sniper teammate and helping maintain map control, I am individually better off by increasing my kills per minute and playing hyper agro. From a team standpoint my friend is better with rockets, so I should let him have them. But individually I'm better off taking them for myself and increasing my kills per minute. That has no place in a team playlist. (again, everything i'm saying is IMO).
100% I agree with this last paragraph! In previous seasons I wouldn’t mind if I put 4 shots on a player and my teammate gets the kill after I give a callout (in a team game I am happy to win). Now i find myself not calling people out so that i can get the kill. I actually get upset when i have somebody 1 shot and my teammate steals the kill. I don’t callout overshield or camo unless i am dead and it is a very close game. Along with all of the things in the post above about supporting your teammate with power weapons, playing the map and protecting your teammates against a flank, grabbing or not grabbing rockets to let another teammate get them. The list goes on and on about how TS2 does not encourage team play in halo( a game where callouts and team shooting are essential to winning).
Completely agree. And 343 and others have said how grabbing rockets instead of supporting a teammate to grab an extra kill or 2 won’t make a difference to TS2 (aka small things like that to increase kills won’t matter), but I have two counterpoints: 1) mennke uses the following stat to support my rank: an onyx player against low diamond gets 1.83 kills per minute whereas I get 1.72. Um what? In a 10 minute game that’s 18.3 kills vs 17.2, a 1 kill difference! So I guess if I grab those rockets and get 1-3 more kills I’m onyx now. And counterpoint 2) Regardless of how much or how little individual play vs team play affects TS2, the fact that individual stats factor into ranks means people like you and I will do things to boost our stats, possibly to the detriment of the team (not making a call out so we can finish the kill, as an example). Perception IS reality. And it’s hurting the matchmaking experience for many people.
bearhound wrote:
TR0K3S wrote:
bearhound wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
..
: 1) mennke uses the following stat to support my rank: an onyx player against low diamond gets 1.83 kills per minute whereas I get 1.72. Um what? In a 10 minute game that’s 18.3 kills vs 17.2, a 1 kill difference!
I've been itching to see the distribution breakdowns rather than the averages for a lot of these metrics- because from the outside I would think that 0.1 difference would be within error.

I also cringed at the kill rate against one full onyx squad being used as evidence of anything - nobody should draw any conclusion from a n = 1.
The more you try to rank up, the more frustrating it becomes. This causes tilt, and you lose even more rank that you can't get back. It's not fun.
bearhound wrote:
bearhound wrote:
The matchmaker has failed me by not letting me play better players. As I said in the previous paragraph, if you're ranking up after wins, eventually you'll lose more than you win (because you'll be matched against better players) and rank down. But the matchmaker won't let us play better players. We continue stomping on teams and going positive, but it's what TS2 thinks we should do so we don't go up. How can we prove ourselves if all we do is win because we won't match against better players? That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it.
And why do you think you're being matched against lower skilled players? Because at your skill level, there exists far less higher-skilled players, and more less-skilled players. Josh just confirmed you're playing at upper-diamond skill. Onyx is intended to be the top 10%, so let's say upper Diamond is 15% (that number is slightly off; I don't have the exact percentile on hand).

The matchmaker looks for players within 1 tier (standard deviation) of your skill. Normally that would mean you could match players from upper Platinum to Onyx. But because of the lower population, in order to allow high (and low) skilled players to find a game, they had to put a skill cap on players looking for matches (in Slayer, this cap is set to roughly mid-Diamond 4). This means in reality, you'll match anywhere from mid Platinum to Champ 1.

Just as a note, a completely average player (Platinum 1) can match two-thirds of the population (68%).
A Diamond 1 can match 47% of the population, 70% of which are less skilled.
And Onyx 1500 can match 16% of the population, 85% of which are less skilled.

This is why there exists a skill cap on attempts to find matches.

This isn't a fault of the skill system. It's not even really a fault of the matchmaking system. Its the fault of current population levels.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
You literally cut off the rest of my quote. “That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it. The matchmaking system is failing me this season. I would rather be stuck and D5/6 with a 50% win rate because I can't beat onyx players, than keep winning against low diamond and go nowhere. Especially because I'm in a team playlist, and I'm playing well enough to win the game. I don't know if it's due to population (ie. there are no onyx players for us to prove ourselves against) or due to TS2 keeping me against diamond players because TS2 says i'm diamond, but either way it is broken for me IMO.
So, what's the point you're trying to make? That I cut off your paragraph? Didn't my response speak to the rest of what your paragraph was saying? I'm lost here; please enlighten me.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
The question wasn't posed to me- but if I play ranked, I want to play in games where there is a plausible opportunity to rank up. Otherwise, you are mostly wasting my time.
So you are in the "I'd rather sit in the Unable to Match screen" camp, rather than the "I know I might get a low-quality match, but at least I'm able to play the game" camp.

Personally, I'd rather get a low-quality match, because even if I end up playing lower ranked players, my skill atrophies slower than not playing at all.
bearhound wrote:
TR0K3S wrote:
bearhound wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
..
: 1) mennke uses the following stat to support my rank: an onyx player against low diamond gets 1.83 kills per minute whereas I get 1.72. Um what? In a 10 minute game that’s 18.3 kills vs 17.2, a 1 kill difference!
I've been itching to see the distribution breakdowns rather than the averages for a lot of these metrics- because from the outside I would think that 0.1 difference would be within error.

I also cringed at the kill rate against one full onyx squad being used as evidence of anything - nobody should draw any conclusion from a n = 1.
It’s also so frustrating that i’ve only played one full onyx squad. Let me play better players and i’ll either sink or swim. Right now I’m just wading in the shallow end.
bearhound wrote:
bearhound wrote:
The matchmaker has failed me by not letting me play better players. As I said in the previous paragraph, if you're ranking up after wins, eventually you'll lose more than you win (because you'll be matched against better players) and rank down. But the matchmaker won't let us play better players. We continue stomping on teams and going positive, but it's what TS2 thinks we should do so we don't go up. How can we prove ourselves if all we do is win because we won't match against better players? That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it.
And why do you think you're being matched against lower skilled players? Because at your skill level, there exists far less higher-skilled players, and more less-skilled players. Josh just confirmed you're playing at upper-diamond skill. Onyx is intended to be the top 10%, so let's say upper Diamond is 15% (that number is slightly off; I don't have the exact percentile on hand).

The matchmaker looks for players within 1 tier (standard deviation) of your skill. Normally that would mean you could match players from upper Platinum to Onyx. But because of the lower population, in order to allow high (and low) skilled players to find a game, they had to put a skill cap on players looking for matches (in Slayer, this cap is set to roughly mid-Diamond 4). This means in reality, you'll match anywhere from mid Platinum to Champ 1.

Just as a note, a completely average player (Platinum 1) can match two-thirds of the population (68%).
A Diamond 1 can match 47% of the population, 70% of which are less skilled.
And Onyx 1500 can match 16% of the population, 85% of which are less skilled.

This is why there exists a skill cap on attempts to find matches.

This isn't a fault of the skill system. It's not even really a fault of the matchmaking system. Its the fault of current population levels.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
You literally cut off the rest of my quote. “That is not the player's fault, but i'm being punished for it. The matchmaking system is failing me this season. I would rather be stuck and D5/6 with a 50% win rate because I can't beat onyx players, than keep winning against low diamond and go nowhere. Especially because I'm in a team playlist, and I'm playing well enough to win the game. I don't know if it's due to population (ie. there are no onyx players for us to prove ourselves against) or due to TS2 keeping me against diamond players because TS2 says i'm diamond, but either way it is broken for me IMO.
So, what's the point you're trying to make? That I cut off your paragraph? Didn't my response speak to the rest of what your paragraph was saying? I'm lost here; please enlighten me.

What is more important to you: being able to play any game at all, or ranking up because you beat teams the system thought were better?
The question wasn't posed to me- but if I play ranked, I want to play in games where there is a plausible opportunity to rank up. Otherwise, you are mostly wasting my time.
So you are in the "I'd rather sit in the Unable to Match screen" camp, rather than the "I know I might get a low-quality match, but at least I'm able to play the game" camp.

Personally, I'd rather get a low-quality match, because even if I end up playing lower ranked players, my skill atrophies slower than not playing at all.
The point I was trying to make is that your post talked about population, and the rest of my paragraph specifically mentions population.

And I don’t think sig is in the “I'd rather sit in the Unable to Match screen” camp. I think he would rather have a ranking system that allows people to rank up and not be hindered by population. That’s the camp I’m in at least. If the game keeps matching me against people I should beat, that is completely out of my control. All I can do is try to beat who the game puts me up against. And I should be rewarded for winning. I think Sig and I both feel that way. I’m not using a weird server or trying to game the system. I’m just logging on and winning games trying to rank up.
None of this matters as even if you play onyx players and win, if you do bad you still won’t rank up anyways. This system just like everyone is saying is about individual skill now and not about how many games you win as a team. Take my record/stats for example.... 415 games played in Slayer, 318 wins 96 loses, for a 77% win rate. I average 13.11 kills a game have a 7.kda constantly finished 1 or 2 on my team and “rarely” rank up. The most consistent way of found to rank up is to play solo que and carry your team (also found if your playing well and lose you won’t go down much in CSR). Sad to say but I went from diamond 6 to onyx 1670 playing mostly solo. Can ZaedynFel tell me what my MMR is now after playing over 400 games?
Dr Menke, my CSR is 2044, Champ 41! Is my MMR 2044 or higher? Am I truly in the top 5 MMRs
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