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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – June 12

OP ZaedynFel

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Smaller update this week since it’s been quiet with E3.

I thought I’d address a question we see often when we talk about features that it we agree are good, but I say we won’t see in Halo 5.

We hear things like:
  • Why can’t we get that in H5?
  • How hard can that be?

For some features, it can be incredibly hard. I’ll try and explain why.

The features I call out as not ones we’ll see in Halo 5 are usually ones we are building on new technology that isn’t compatible with Halo 5. The main reason we are changing the tech is so we can make future changes like this much faster and easier.

To make those changes without that new tech, we would have to rip a bunch of people away from making progress towards the next game to change tech that we won’t be using in the future. That type of request will generally get lower priority than features that can be used both now and in the future as well.

So when I say we won’t be seeing something in Halo 5, it’s usually because there’s no way to put it into Halo 5 in a way that will carry forward. Instead, we’ll put it directly into the next game.

When I talk about features that we CAN do now, it’s features that are built on tech that we CAN carry forward into the next Halo, or new tech that is compatible with Halo 5 and easy to carry forward. In those cases, I try hard to get those improvements in.

Everything is a tradeoff. Do we add this feature to H5? Or to the next game and finish the next game sooner? Both are super important to us, so we prioritize based on what makes the most sense going forward.
I look forward to all the potential improvements to Halo.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Smaller update this week since it’s been quiet with E3.
I thought I’d address a question we see often when we talk about features that it we agree are good, but I say we won’t see in Halo 5.
We hear things like:
  • Why can’t we get that in H5?
  • How hard can that be?
For some features, it can be incredibly hard. I’ll try and explain why.
The features I call out as not ones we’ll see in Halo 5 are usually ones we are building on new technology that isn’t compatible with Halo 5. The main reason we are changing the tech is so we can make future changes like this much faster and easier.
To make those changes without that new tech, we would have to rip a bunch of people away from making progress towards the next game to change tech that we won’t be using in the future. That type of request will generally get lower priority than features that can be used both now and in the future as well.
So when I say we won’t be seeing something in Halo 5, it’s usually because there’s no way to put it into Halo 5 in a way that will carry forward. Instead, we’ll put it directly into the next game.
When I talk about features that we CAN do now, it’s features that are built on tech that we CAN carry forward into the next Halo, or new tech that is compatible with Halo 5 and easy to carry forward. In those cases, I try hard to get those improvements in.
Everything is a tradeoff. Do we add this feature to H5? Or to the next game and finish the next game sooner? Both are super important to us, so we prioritize based on what makes the most sense going forward.
These updates are excellent.
Good decision to focus all efforts on Halo 6
i appreciate the transparency good sir
I definitely think taking the long-term route is the better option.

Curious, though. Would it be possible (This game or next) to have a matchmaking playlist that directly pulls maps/gamemodes from 343i Favorites- so all you'd need to do is add it to 343i Favorites' fileshare, and it would go right to matchmaking?
Thanks for commenting on this. I really want more transparency in the development of halo like this.
We've had our fun with H5. Now make the best damn whatever next halo thing you guys can, good luck to the team :)
I'd rather they just did everything for H6 at this point if it's too much work to try it for H5.

Have you heard any plans of updating H5 to 4K for the One X or is that being saved for H6? It'd be nice to see that ranking system in 4k, heh.
Is that what happened to mcc?
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
I love these posts. Keep up the great work, Josh!
ZaedynFel wrote:
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make a map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
I'm trying to take it with a little grain of salt, but it's hard.

So, based on what I read from you it seems like the Extraction mode is highly unlikely to arrive in Halo 5. That's certainly sad news as it was one of the better competitive modes and perhaps the primary mode I had hoped to see carried forward from Halo 4 as a potential addition to the Ranked category of "core" non-slayer based objective modes; though, I did really like 4v4 Ricochet, (team) Regicide (slayer-based), and Dominion as modes geared toward social play and also had some hope for their eventual return too (minus Dominion).

And although the outlook for a 1-Flag & 1-Bomb mode arriving to Halo 5 may now look less promising then before I read your comment(s) they at least would seem to have a lot more hope for implementation then Extraction or several other modes. The reason I would surmise that to be the case is because the Breakout game type already provides a round-based mechanic in game that'd be needed for those two modes and there's a Flag model (from a two sided game type) and a Bomb model (from a neutral game type) to build from too; therefore, in theory less "tweaking" should be required in order to create a properly working one-sided round-based infiltrate or extract mode in Halo 5 that has the teams trading turns as the attackers and defenders. Nevertheless, based on your comment the level of "tweaking" is going to be the apparent deciding factor as to whether or not we'll see anything regarding a properly working one-sided round-based game type or modes provided by the developers in Halo 5.

Have there been any meetings regarding additional planned content drops for Halo 5: Guardians?

I've been holding out hope that we'd hear something in regards to a new content drop, but I also have been expecting to hear something since earlier this year. I'm surprised we've reached 6 months (half a year) since the last drop and still have not heard anything regarding, "Yes there is more headlined Halo 5 content planned for release" or "No we're done releasing big headlined content drops for Halo 5, but we'll continue to fine tune and provide periodic minor updates from here on out since our primary focus is directed towards Halo Wars 2 and our future Halo 6 title".

I assumed E3 would have been the primary opportunity and time for announcing a new content drop if there was going to be one, so now I'm left somewhat doubting that there will be another big content drop for Halo 5; though, maybe you guys are planning an official announcement at RTX, Gamescom, or PAX West since it might not get drowned out by all the hot topic gaming news like E3 tends to posses. Could you say if this was the case? Nevertheless, I felt disappointed that there wasn't some news dropped by 343i at E3 regarding Halo 5: Guardians content.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
And like any other business, employees come and go.

As I recall, Tom French mentioned the programmer responsible for game types left the company some six months ago, which informed the decision to provide Forge tools for scripting modes.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
And like any other business, employees come and go.

As I recall, Tom French mentioned the programmer responsible for game types left the company some six months ago, which informed the decision to provide Forge tools for scripting modes.
I wish we could forge script out 1 flag CTF...but I haven't seen any way to do that

*programming isn't my skillset...so It's possible I don't understand how to do it with our current tools
ZaedynFel wrote:
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
And like any other business, employees come and go.

As I recall, Tom French mentioned the programmer responsible for game types left the company some six months ago, which informed the decision to provide Forge tools for scripting modes.
I wish we could forge script out 1 flag CTF...but I haven't seen any way to do that

*programming isn't my skillset...so It's possible I don't understand how to do it with our current tools
Custom 1-Sided Objectives in Halo 5 - There are major issues with the custom scripted method which is why I'd like to see the developers create a properly working version for Halo 5.
eLantern wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Just curious. But would "One Flag" or "One Bomb" Offense/defense games fall under the category of "We can't do that in h5 currently" or "The tech is in place, we just need to tweak a couple things"
So I'm not a game mode guy, so take this with a little grain of salt.

It depends on the game mode. If we have similar modes already built, sometimes we can just make map and game variant config changes to create a new mode. That would fall into the "tweak a couple of things" category. Still maybe 1-2 weeks of work depending on the differences and how many people we have do it.

If it's a brand new game mode too different than other modes, it doesn't quite fall into "can't do that in H5" since H5 actually has decent tech for building new game modes. But it would fall into "probably won't do that in H5" because it requires a lot of work that can't be carried forward.
I wish we could forge script out 1 flag CTF...but I haven't seen any way to do that

*programming isn't my skillset...so It's possible I don't understand how to do it with our current tools
Custom 1-Sided Objectives in Halo 5 - There are major issues with the custom scripted method which is why I'd like to see the developers create a properly working version for Halo 5.
Yep - I've tried that one...It's like herding cats getting people to switch teams properly.

Thanks for linking it that though. I agree that we need a dev made solution. The Game type (Offense/Defense atleast) exists within WZ Assault. All we would need is a way force team changes or allow the match to flip roles after time limit/score
tbh I would go 100% on the next halo after the h3 playlist, h5 is done.

but also don't finish the next game sooner. Make it better, go all in. Halo should compete with the giants bf1, cod, etc. The last few games haven't felt like that, when h3 came out the world shook.
Aski wrote:
...h5 is done.
I disagree. Halo 5: Guardians is still easily my go-to video game of choice and I'm sure that's the case for a decent amount of other Halo fans too. I've looked forward to all the improvements that have been brought to it and all the future minor updates/improvements that'll continue to be brought to it as its primary life-cycle plays out. I hope that there will be at least one, if not more, massively big (headlined) content drop(s) that includes several developer created game-types/modes that I think ought to be implemented into the game plus perhaps a few new maps as well as customization and REQ items too. In all likelihood Halo 6 won't be available until late 2019 which means Halo 5: Guardians' primary life-cycle has quite a ways to go yet; in fact, it's not even quite half-way if late 2019 is indeed the actual release date for Halo 6. Btw, I definitely don't want Halo 6 rushed into its release -- they can wait till 2020 as far as I'm concerned and a big part of that is because Halo 5 is a quality product that I'll continue to enjoy spending time with while I mix my time with other new marketplace titles and MCC too. Halo 6 needs to feel very complete and polished when released, so take as much time as needed.

Nevertheless, as a good business decision I want to see 343i actively supporting their current FPS title all the way up to the release of their next major FPS title with some sense of priority, but I do understand that the company's resources will get directed accordingly as the new title approaches its release date (less for the current title and more towards the newer title); however, that should not equate to the current FPS title getting left for dead. Btw, I do not mean to indicate or insinuate that that's what's occurred or is occurring or will occur with Halo 5; I'm only expressing a strong opinion I have on a topic with which I carry some concern about. Also, I'd hope that 343i has a team that's focused on providing continued long-term support toward their past titles on the current console such as Halo Wars DE, Halo: Reach (backwards compatible), Halo: Spartan Assault, MCC, Halo 5, and eventually Halo Wars 2 after Halo 6 releases as I believe it to be critically important to their company branding and as exclusive Xbox titles that ought to have some influence on the console's sales numbers.
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