Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – March 20

OP ZaedynFel

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Are you able to change the halo 1 pistol to something else in SWAT please thanks :).
Seeing Everyone’s CSR on the Loading Screen
I am of the opinion that we should not be able to see anything about the opponent until we are in game and ready to play. Otherwise people quit out, pull the cord, etc.

Show Party State on the Loading Screen
This isn't a big deal, but in Halo 3 you could visually see who was matched with who by looking at the team color line to the right of the players. Example below.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FTtSROmFwIc/maxresdefault.jpg

Having Forge Maps in Ranked
It's important that the maps are well tested and do not have frame drops, but the community has created better maps than Fathom/Rig/Regret so this would be ideal both for matchmaking and hcs.
Moda wrote:
Hey josh great update and info.
Just last night I tried MM in SWAT solo with search parameters set to expanded for about 10 minutes and just could find any spartans. Now I know SWAT is a pretty popular playlist maybe not as much when you are onyx but it's my favorite gametype and every season I play my 10 placement matches, get onyx, then can not find games playing solo. Any further help in getting games while playing swat would be very appreciated
Try searching focused. It has started helping me find games in swat at the champion lvl
Carry me pls kthnx. 😘

Are you able to change the halo 1 pistol to something else in SWAT please thanks :).
Josh doesn't work on that part of matchmaking. You can leave feedback in the many SWAT feedback threads that are kicking around.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Social MatchmakingIn case you don’t know, we still have a skill rating or MMR we use when matchmaking in social, and even Warzone. We just aren’t as strict on how tight the matches need to be. We are still really strict in the team balancing though, so in theory you should win about as often as you lose.
There still needs to be a lot of work done on team balancing, when the reason I lose a game is because a system puts all the bad players I match with on the same team as me, it doesn't feel very fair. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/warzone/matches/26143e42-1e29-4dbb-a44a-481d314340a6/players/nukedlcecream?gameHistoryMatchIndex=15&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Warzone
Matching based on party size is still an issue even in social.

I typically play with a friend or two. Playing with a small lobby sucks when you match a bigger party.

I would enjoy btb more if when I matched in a total party size of 3 ppl then I shouldn't be paired against a lobby bigger than my team but in smaller lobbies of the same size.

Even warzone can be annoying if you match a team larger than your fireteam. 6 players still have a huge weight on who wins. A team if 6 ppl still can win majority of their games with ease.

Will we ever see more fair matching for social and warzone where it makes the experience more enjoyable for smaller lobbies?

I just miss the old days when I could play and enjoy the game with whatever party size u decide to play with or as. Teams need to face teams. I just wish this was a bigger priority.
Something not as feasible for Halo 5, but worth looking into, is Post Match Partying. This goes along with what you said about reasons for solo-queing, personally i solo because my friends aren't the most competent/don't play the playlists i play. Assuming you take the time, it could be possible to automatically place allies post game in a fireteam and continue matching like it does now. If people want to rematch alone, they just have to back out and start searching again. Probably the easiest way to go about it, and would inspire players to be more social with each other. (I loved playing with the same people back in Reach if we had a good match.)

Something extra that could be added to this system is a background tracker of skills players enjoy playing with. A vote of up or down will increase or decrease the chance of matching with players you played with, this should even out the skill difference in teams, as the players you don't want to play with are going to be pushed to the enemy team in theory. This probably isn't worth the time, but is something to look into the future.
ZaedynFel wrote:
How are you teaming up? Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
For those of you who play solo, is that because it’s a pain to find a team? Or do you just love that playstyle?
We’re looking into ways of making it easier to find folks to party up with, but want to first see what you’re already doing, and where the pain points might be.
I personally find it really hard to team up. I know i do have friends and my own spartan company partners to play with but i prefer to stay solo due to my friends current activity and i personally find it disturbing to send invites while they are on a party or busy on something else. in addition, i find myself performing A LOT BETTER alone than being on a team and worrying about call outs or other objective. I'm not stating that putting myself on a team is not a good experience, playing on a full team is fun, competitive and it helps me improve my skill on a full team but i personally feel a lot better alone also for the fact that on a full team i really worry a lot on my stats.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Matchmaking TradeoffsWe are constantly looking at how to better balance our tradeoffs between skill, latency, and local population size within the framework we have. There are some knobs we can turn now, some knobs we want to add, and other knobs we probably can’t add in the near future. I don’t have much more to say on that at the moment though.
So how does the latency weigh in during MatchMaking? Like CSR? - The average of the team will match the average of the opposing team?

I am loving these threads - keep it up! :-)
Quote:
Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
I usually find players through my spartan company or the Discord app.
ZaedynFel wrote:
How are you teaming up? Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
For those of you who play solo, is that because it’s a pain to find a team? Or do you just love that playstyle?
We’re looking into ways of making it easier to find folks to party up with, but want to first see what you’re already doing, and where the pain points might be.
Generally speaking, I team up with friends from my friends list. I'm not super crazy about LFG or finding "randoms" to play with as my experience with that has been, uh, special at times. Occasionally I will join someone I meet in MM when I solo Q but that's few and far between. I also will sometimes join people from Waypoint but that's not too often either.

This.

I rarely solo QQ (as implied by the name) and am usually just with friends, usually with my battle buddy (quoted).
"How are you teaming up?

"Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
For those of you who play solo, is that because it’s a pain to find a team? Or do you just love that playstyle?
We’re looking into ways of making it easier to find folks to party up with, but want to first see what you’re already doing, and where the pain points might be."

Its a pain to find teammates to play n grind with consistently but that can depend on your job,studies etc, depends on when im online, what playlist im trying to grind a rank for,and if my friends are interested in playing and/or their rank.I usually play breakout,swat,ffa,social n customs browser when playing solo, mostly ranked n social when playing w friends.Of course downside is facing teams when searching solo/smurfs. Also in regards to Vetoed's point, for me and many players Halo 5 lacks a real incentive to come back to playing the game unless your playing warzone for commendations or grinding for a certain rank.

As someone who enjoyed Halo reach challenge system for unlocking,purchasing armors or parts of one,unless im grinding for a rank to improve myself/team,there's no challenges to unlock like halo 3/halo reach did.I'd like an in-game pop up challenges and achievements like reach had like get 10 melee kills 5/10(get an achivevement some credits etc).But since you said you wont do this for halo 5 for future halo games like you can get 200 req points/credits and a rare 1000 XP boost card for completing a challenge,the harder the challenge the better credits payouts/stuff you get.Give players an incentive(like halos 1-3 even reach and some point halo 4,a reason to come back to the game for various reasons ESPECIALLY is you are someone like me who plays mostly arena,social n customs,rarely any warzone.
Moda wrote:
Hey josh great update and info.

Just last night I tried MM in SWAT solo with search parameters set to expanded for about 10 minutes and just could find any spartans. Now I know SWAT is a pretty popular playlist maybe not as much when you are onyx but it's my favorite gametype and every season I play my 10 placement matches, get onyx, then can not find games playing solo. Any further help in getting games while playing swat would be very appreciated
Try searching focused. It has started helping me find games in swat at the champion lvl
ok i'll try that i just figured expanded would get the quickest matches or any matches at all
I usually play solo, or team up with a couple people on my friends list, who I met randomly in-games, or from my spartan company. It's rare that I have a full fireteam, but often have 2-3 for arena and 3-5 for Warzone.

Sometimes I'll invite a rando in the post-game lobby, especially if they had a mic (or will join their invite).
I don't think finding people to play with is the issue here, there is a much bigger and more prominent problem that us solo queue players face and that is the obvious unfair balancing. I actually like playing Solo but its really bad to do so in Warzone and Arena. Warzone solo queue often joins you into half complete games where your team is getting destroyed and can feel very punishing/frustrating and with regards to Ranked Arena solo queue is tedious as you often match teams of 4 and get decimated :/
I only go into FFA (obviously) or WZFF solo but even when I do, I'm usually in a party with other Company members, and even then only while waiting for them to finish a match.

The quick matching suggestion is great, and would help solo players match up with others after a game but, with fireteam limits of just 6 in Warzone, there's only so far this can go.
To add my two cents, i think Vetoed's point have player motivation is spot on. Unfortunately for me I have an "almost OCD" where I like to see the end of a game regardless of whether it's 4v4 or 1v4. On the other hand, I wish that MMR and CSR were more visible than they are. I would feel more encouraged if i knew that MM had attempted to increase my MMR and place me in a game where I'm being thrashed. The frustration for me is I'm being left in the dark of it's decisions. Not to harp on about halo's of old but if i saw lvl 50's in a H2 MM I knew I was in for a tough game, but I also knew that I was the underdog, therefore I wasn't upset if i was losing.

Now, i don't think we'd need to apply visible MMR's to players (although i'd personally prefer it over CSR because my personal skill growth is more important to me than that lovely diamond logo) but if i had a little number at the bottom of my screen that gave me the average MMR of the game, eventually I'd know where I was standing in terms of what to expect and when i see the figure grow, I have the personal gratification that i think my skill is improving, regardless of whether i'm winning or losing more.

Perhaps people wouldn't quit so often, if the one rank they were allowed to see wasn't distorted by other players. Perhaps if they had something else to work on, they would trudge through the lose and see the game to the end. Just some thoughts, I wouldn't mind knowing if anyone feels the same.
ZaedynFel wrote:
How are you teaming up? Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
For those of you who play solo, is that because it’s a pain to find a team? Or do you just love that playstyle?
We’re looking into ways of making it easier to find folks to party up with, but want to first see what you’re already doing, and where the pain points might be.
90% of the time I'm partying up with people who are currently already on my friends list, and usually only the ones that are at a similar skill level to me. If I don't have anyone online that fits that description, I tend to just play WZA/Custom Browser/Social as opposed to trusting MM to give me teammates that I'll enjoy playing with. When I do Solo Q, I like to invite people who I felt like played well from the carnage report (thinking about it, this does take a few more button presses than I would like).

I do feel like the system sometimes struggles to find a fair match when I play with my friends who aren't other competitive players, and it all comes down to a snowball of smurfing.

  • I play with them and some percentage of the time we match against smurfs.
  • We lose a good portion of these matches, and I start going down in CSR.
  • I jump on an alt account because I don't want to ditch my friend, but I also don't want to destroy my rank.
  • We are now on the other end of the problem, and my friend is gaining more CSR than he probably should be.
  • Now his rank is inflated and that means I would lose even more than before if I play with them on my main account in the future.
There are a good 10-20 people on my friends list that I currently can't really play with on my main account because of this rank inflation. It makes the experience worse for the people we're matching against, and it makes the experience worse for anyone who gets my friend on their team until the system has time to correct itself (and it often doesn't because those same people will have a few other high-level friends that do the same thing when they play with them).
Ill reply to quitting because i feel it effects me. Personally, I try my hardest not to quit games. But it becomes increasingly difficult when you're down 2v4 and don't want to go -20, but still don't want to take that possible ban, or the bigger amount of CSR that you lose when you quit.
I don't agree with losing CSR after a teamate quits. I understand losing you deserve to go down, so I would probably agree with a reduced penalty for a loss when a teamate quits.
That being said there's been an alarming number of people quitting lately, I mean that as in every single game I solo que someone quits be it on my team or the other. Very disheartening.
Something you guys tweaked to make ffa Champs match faster brought in low diamond and platinum players and as much as I enjoy the easy ride, they often quit and slows the game experience exponentially 5 man ffa and 6 man are a big difference.
I'm sure there is more I could add but I'm not sure anyone actually reads this so I'll stop.
ZaedynFel wrote:
How are you teaming up? Our UX design lead, Vincent, wanted to get some feedback from y’all on how you go about finding teams and parties for matchmaking. What has been the easiest way for you? There are many tools currently available to find folks to play with, but I don’t want to bias you by listing them, I’d rather here your feedback on them.
For those of you who play solo, is that because it’s a pain to find a team? Or do you just love that playstyle?
We’re looking into ways of making it easier to find folks to party up with, but want to first see what you’re already doing, and where the pain points might be.
I find myself as a solo que player more often as I've gotten older because I don't have a set group of friends dedicated to playing one particular game most of the time anymore; plus, many of the hardcore Halo players I use to play with during CE, H2, & H3 have transitioned to preferring other games or have a preference for the Master Chief Collection when they do feel like playing some Halo (I prefer H5, but will oblige them).

Also, my availability to get online and play isn't anywhere close to what it use to be (family priorities), so that even when I do find new people to play with here and there (often meeting them while playing) I don't feel as inclined to bother them when I'm online some time later (some times weeks or months later or more). If they send me an invite I'll usually accept and play with them, but I'm rarely the one messaging them looking to pair up. Honestly, I don't get many invites sent my way even if there are people on my friends list playing Halo, but perhaps it's because they're thinking similarly. Part of that may be because I don't recall them all that well or they don't recall playing with me; plus, I worry sometimes about how well I'll play given my time away from the game. I don't want to let anyone down with my play since I probably added them to my friends list after an extended period of playing the game and playing well. I carry a sense of expectation and a bit of pride in my Halo performance (always have dating back to the first Halo) and dislike letting teammates down (referring to those I pair up with). I often worry that I won't live up to my expectations and past performances when I get back on, so that thought process may be a mental blockage for why I'm not more active in trying to aggressively find people to play with. This leaves me in an odd comfort zone of playing solo even if I prefer playing with a solid group of communicating players around my skill level.

I understand that there are new ways to find people outside of the game itself to pair up and I've made myself a part of some of those communities or groups, but again I'm not usually active enough to make it a priority to use those methods most of the time; plus, it's hard to tell what kind of people you may be partnering up with when you haven't played with them before. One thing I do miss from past title(s) that I felt made pairing up while playing simple and I would greatly welcome returning to Halo was that post game method -- this would indeed be the easiest way for someone such as myself.
Still no real solution for quitters?
Is it too difficult to end the game if someone Quits/Lags out before certain period of time?

  • Punish Quitters.
The current Banhammer system is not hard enough with quitters. -- At least for Ranked (leave social alone it should be separate), quitting should be seen as a sever offense against the MM rules. Gradually take out a % of CSR from their next wins for the next day. Every quit -25% or something similar.
I think banning people from arena is not worth it, we just lose potential players and banning them should happen as a last resort.

  • Give us a forfeit match option.
Why do we have to go through 8mins of a 1-3v4? Tilts me out of the planet and I just want to play the game, relax and have some fun while still play competitive matches.
Immediately end a match if someone leaves the game before a short period of time has passed (0-2mins into the match maybe?)
I can't believe this is still something we have to deal with when the game is almost 2 years old.
If you think that will just incite players to quit when they think the other team is potentially going to win, then that's because the rules are not severe enough with those who quit.

Also, is there a way you can tell when someone actually loses connection vs someone quitting the build? If yes then there's no reason to not punish quitters the way they deserve.
On top of that you guys must know when someone lags out or uses the leave game option since they go back to the Halo menu.
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