Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – March 26

OP ZaedynFel

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TrueSkill2

As we’ve talked about in a few updates, we have an improved version of TrueSkill that we have been integrating into Halo 5. It has already been running silently in the background for several weeks, and now we are getting ready to try it out in matchmaking.

As I’ve said in the past, we are being deliberate in how we roll out the new system, so we are going to start with only one playlist to begin with. The first playlist to benefit will be Quick Play. Quick Play is popular enough of a list to give us good data while not being one of the very top lists. Also, in the data we have gathered so far, the new system is significantly better at handling new players, and Quick Play is the most popular playlist by far for first timers.

We are targeting the next week or two to switch Quick Play from using the current Halo 5 skill system to the new one. When it goes live, we’ll post an update in the current week’s matchmaking update thread.

The new system determines player skill faster and predicts the correct winner much more often. It also predicts kills and deaths accurately. When we matchmake on the new skill ratings TrueSkill2 provides, players will notice fairer matches earlier in their experience than before. For an in depth discussion of the new method, see this write-up by Microsoft Research Cambridge.

After Quick Play has run successfully, we will move to include the rest of Social, and then some time after that, Ranked. We’ll keep you updated.


Playlist Popularity

Super Fiesta
Slayer
Heroic Warzone Firefight
Warzone
Quick Play
Big Team Batte
Legendary Warzone Firefight
Infection
SWAT
Halo 3 Classic Throwback
Team Arena
Doubles
Action Sack
HaloWC 2018
Snipers
Mythic Warzone Firefight
Breakout
Warzone Assault
HaloWC FFA
Grifball
Have there been any discussions with regards to the Quickplay playlist adopting a Strongholds mode for the Plaza map, a CTF mode for the Coliseum map, and Oddball (now that it has received new spawn influencers) or Assault for the Truth map? Keep the Slayer mode for each map too, but this way new comers are able to experience and participate in several of the non-slayer modes as well as the Slayer mode.

I understand that the concept was to keep the playlist as simple as possible for newcomers (thus slayer only on 3 maps), but in all honesty I've seen non-slayer objective play be even easier for newcomers who may struggle with killing enemies because at least they feel like they're able to contribute to the team by helping to either capture a stronghold, grab a flag, hold an oddball, or arm a bomb. The playlist would still be limited to 1 UNSC (Plaza), 1 Convenant (Truth), and 1 Forerunner (Coliseum) map, but now two modes per map (1 slayer + 1 non-slayer) so that new players don't struggle to adapt yet gain an additional experience.
I hope this new system is better than the current one because it hasn't been good at all lately in a certain playlist. Did JIP get tweaked at all? I've had a couple games where almost the entire team quit, but I didn't get anyone from JIP and it was still relatively early in the game with 8-10 minutes left.

I'm surprised to see the H3 playlist so far down. I've been getting games in it faster than a few of the social playlists which are more popular.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
I hope this new system is better than the current one because it hasn't been good at all lately in a certain playlist. Did JIP get tweaked at all? I've had a couple games where almost the entire team quit, but I didn't get anyone from JIP and it was still relatively early in the game with 8-10 minutes left.

I'm surprised to see the H3 playlist so far down. I've been getting games in it faster than a few of the social playlists which are more popular.
In my opinion, I think that is because of how many players are on at any given time but the amount of individual players playing the playlist per day would probably be equal to Quick Plays population.
BADvorak wrote:
LUKEPOWA wrote:
I hope this new system is better than the current one because it hasn't been good at all lately in a certain playlist. Did JIP get tweaked at all? I've had a couple games where almost the entire team quit, but I didn't get anyone from JIP and it was still relatively early in the game with 8-10 minutes left.

I'm surprised to see the H3 playlist so far down. I've been getting games in it faster than a few of the social playlists which are more popular.
In my opinion, I think that is because of how many players are on at any given time but the amount of individual players playing the playlist per day would probably be equal to Quick Plays population.
It's mostly because of different team sizes (12 in WZ) or much tighter matchmaking settings (Quick Play and Slayer)
Remove the needless ranked playlists. Literally have a mixed bag playlist that encompasses everything (Arena Breakout, Assault, Capture the Flag, Strongholds, Oddball, SWAT, Slayer)... it would be perfect for a veto system... but more importantly is an introductory playlist to Halo 4v4 ARENA.
How does this new system work with party matching? Often times solo players will queue against parties of 3 or 4 and be completely stomped on. So even though ranks may be Similar the teams are unbalanced because the party are in communication with each other. Leading to blow out wins for the parties and an angry losing team.
KevinKoolx wrote:
How does this new system work with party matching? Often times solo players will queue against parties of 3 or 4 and be completely stomped on. So even though ranks may be Similar the teams are unbalanced because the party are in communication with each other. Leading to blow out wins for the parties and an angry losing team.
I read the paper by Microsoft Research, and yes, it does do a better job at accounting for "squads" vs. solos.
It's unfortunate to see Breakout near the bottom again. I want to see a renewed interest in that mode.

Syxnrgy wrote:
Remove the needless ranked playlists. Literally have a mixed bag playlist that encompasses everything (Arena Breakout, Assault, Capture the Flag, Strongholds, Oddball, SWAT, Slayer)... it would be perfect for a veto system... but more importantly is an introductory playlist to Halo 4v4 ARENA.
^This. I'll even take it a step further: what if ranked Breakout added Extermination mode into its rotation, much like Swat has multiple versions with different gun layouts?
We could have:

Arena Breakout - Shotgun/Pistols with newly updated maps
Classic Breakout - SMG/Pistols with original (and beta) Breakout maps
Extermination - AR/Pistols with maps the limited-time Extermination playlist

It would definitely be an interesting attempt to breathe new life into one of Halo 5's original modes.

(Also, the Triple Threat & Buzzer Beater medals might finally get fixed)
Breakout really is a great gametype. Seriously though why would they think a shotgun instead of SMG was a good idea?
Would be nice if we had some sort of indication of the number of players in a playlist at a given time. I got stomped on three times in a row today in Warzone Assault because I kept getting matched against the same opposing squad; meanwhile, all the random solos on my time just kept dropping because trying to fight it out was a fool's errand. I'm sure you can blame this on a lack of players, but it would be nice if the game could tell us this, so that I wouldn't optimistically load the next game hoping for a better match, and instead could head to greener pastures before wasting so much of my time.
Omnomnomni wrote:
I kept getting matched against the same opposing squad... it would be nice if the game could tell us this, so that I wouldn't optimistically load the next game hoping for a better match
If you start remembering emblems, then you'll know who you're facing a lot of the time. It would've came in handy during your dilemma there.

I agree that I hate when it happens. The past couple days I've been getting matched against the same party multiple times in a row and then a different party multiple times in a row. I would back out of the lobby, wait a bit and then try again only to be matched against them again which would now be a JIP game. I repeated the process a couple more times with the same results and then I gave up and played another playlist. It was like there was no one else in the playlist to match against.
The DA0 wrote:
It's unfortunate to see Breakout near the bottom again. I want to see a renewed interest in that mode.

Syxnrgy wrote:
Remove the needless ranked playlists. Literally have a mixed bag playlist that encompasses everything (Arena Breakout, Assault, Capture the Flag, Strongholds, Oddball, SWAT, Slayer)... it would be perfect for a veto system... but more importantly is an introductory playlist to Halo 4v4 ARENA.
^This. I'll even take it a step further: what if ranked Breakout added Extermination mode into its rotation, much like Swat has multiple versions with different gun layouts?
We could have:

Arena Breakout - Shotgun/Pistols with newly updated maps
Classic Breakout - SMG/Pistols with original (and beta) Breakout maps
Extermination - AR/Pistols with maps the limited-time Extermination playlist

It would definitely be an interesting attempt to breathe new life into one of Halo 5's original modes.

(Also, the Triple Threat & Buzzer Beater medals might finally get fixed)
We can't do that because SWAT retains it's basic functionality across weapon modes. Doing the same with Breakout greatly alters how it would play in general as v1 was SMG starts with no shields and v2 uses shields.

IMO Extermination is so much more widely popular that I'd rather see .reakout go and Extermination just take it's place as a Ranked Playlist
KevinKoolx wrote:
How does this new system work with party matching? Often times solo players will queue against parties of 3 or 4 and be completely stomped on. So even though ranks may be Similar the teams are unbalanced because the party are in communication with each other. Leading to blow out wins for the parties and an angry losing team.
Solo players shouldn't match squads because squads tend to communicate with each other and solos tend not to? I'm sorry, but that's just an awful reason to state for why the matchmaking system should be tweaked. Communication is optional, so Solos who don't communicate have willingly chosen not to. Why should the system try and accommodate people who have willingly decided to possibly put themselves at a disadvantage?

Now there can be other, far more legit reasons for having Solos match Squads less, but "They talk, and we don't, so that's not balanced" is certainly far from being one of those.
KevinKoolx wrote:
How does this new system work with party matching? Often times solo players will queue against parties of 3 or 4 and be completely stomped on. So even though ranks may be Similar the teams are unbalanced because the party are in communication with each other. Leading to blow out wins for the parties and an angry losing team.
Solo players shouldn't match squads because squads tend to communicate with each other and solos tend not to? I'm sorry, but that's just an awful reason to state for why the matchmaking system should be tweaked. Communication is optional, so Solos who don't communicate have willingly chosen not to. Why should the system try and accommodate people who have willingly decided to possibly put themselves at a disadvantage?

Now there can be other, far more legit reasons for having Solos match Squads less, but "They talk, and we don't, so that's not balanced" is certainly far from being one of those.
Yeah, the real problem is that a group of high level players can partner up and take advantage the way MM works. Search eventually opens up to the minimum requirements meaning that they can match all 4 players of significantly lower skill. Past systems tried to match the average skill in groups and worked much better. I've completely given up on rank having much meaning in H5 because of groups vs solos. It's nearly impossible to move up or maintain in rank as a solo, there's just no consistency when every other match allows for a complete mismatch. I can usually perform as good or better than high diamonds and onyx, but can't even maintain a diamond level because strings of bad teammates or matching a full team of higher skill are really common. I think I was the top ranked player on my team (plat 1-6) versus a full champion team multiple times last night. I mean, that jumping of 3 full tiers should never happen even late at night, and shouldn't count whatsoever against rank if you complete the match on the losing team.

I would hope that the new system prioritizes matching the average skills when matching a team rather than this minimum requirement farming that's so commonplace now. There is something to be said for communication too, particularly in objective games, communication can be as valuable as a 5th man. I wouldn't hate it if groups were allowed to match with slightly higher window of ranked solos other groups weren't available.
I would hope that the new system prioritizes matching the average skills when matching a team rather than this minimum requirement farming that's so commonplace now. There is something to be said for communication too, particularly in objective games, communication can be as valuable as a 5th man. I wouldn't hate it if groups were allowed to match with slightly higher window of ranked solos other groups weren't available.
Page 12 of the TrueSkill2 paper actually addresses this. In essence, the larger the team size you make the more likely you are to win, and the new system takes this into account.
I would hope that the new system prioritizes matching the average skills when matching a team rather than this minimum requirement farming that's so commonplace now. There is something to be said for communication too, particularly in objective games, communication can be as valuable as a 5th man. I wouldn't hate it if groups were allowed to match with slightly higher window of ranked solos other groups weren't available.
Page 12 of the TrueSkill2 paper actually addresses this. In essence, the larger the team size you make the more likely you are to win, and the new system takes this into account.
Yeah, and we do match on the average skill, as well as the gap between teams.

The question, though, is what should we do if a party has a super high skill, much higher than anyone we will see for the next several hours. Do we just not let them match? or do we let them match a team we know they will beat easily. It's either not play, or stomp sometimes.
I am of the opinion to not match that team. I know it sucks but playing those high skill teams just makes everything so frustrating and unfair a lot of players will just quit. Some high skill teams just don't even bother trying to go for a quick game just to get their kill counts up and such. Maybe I am just frustrated at all the games I have been in recently where the total skill of one player on the other team is more than the combined of the entire team I play with and then you had another 7 players like that and it really just sucks to play. I used to enjoy this game but recently I just cannot be bothered to play because I don't enjoy being stomped. If the victory could be quick then I might be okay with the stomping.
ZaedynFel wrote:
For an in depth discussion of the new method, see this write-up by Microsoft Research Cambridge.
FYI. The GDC presentation slides are now available.

Link: Significantly Improving your Skill System with TrueSkill Through Time
I have been having a blast playing the Halo 3 Classic Throwback Playlist! It’s been a long time since I’ve actually been wanting to get on my Xbox and boot up some halo! I have even been having fun when I lose! And that right there has made this playlist that much more awesome 😎

This playlist needs to be permanent and maybe add the map Turd from halo 2?
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