Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – March 27

OP ZaedynFel

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Apoll0 wrote:
NiKoN 30 wrote:
How about fixing the server issues regarding "lost connection to game server" errors...

This isn't a local connection, ISP, issue as it only happens with Halo. Your forums are littered with threads/posts complaining of this. Stop ignoring the real issue. If a user cannot connect or remain connected to complete a game, then that is a critical production bug.

All these other items mentioned in your OP are secondary to users unable to play.
Josh is not a network engineer so you're kind of barking up the wrong tree. He does ranking, progression and matchmaking stuff not things related to server stability, though i see how those could look like they are related. 100% agree this is an issue (i had "left fireteam" happen to me 3 times the other day) but you would be best directing it somewhere else :(
This guy is the only rep from 343i actively reaching out to the player base regularly, this is the exact spot my comment needed to go. All the server feedback in the support forum is mainly ignored.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
What if instead of "+1 for a win" it was a little different in Ranked:
  • +1 for Bronze
  • +2 for Silver
  • +3 for Gold
  • etc.
and then rescale the XP curves to calibrate against Gold/Plat taking about as long as the original system, and everyone else being a little faster / slower.

So it's still just a grind, but with a dash of CSR incentive
It would also be interesting for you to consider giving more XP and RP for warzone games you win faster. It would be a disincentive for teams to farm. For example:

  • Lose in 6 minutes: +1
  • lose in 12 minutes: +2
  • lose in 18 minutes or more: +3
  • win in 18 minutes or more: +4
  • win in 12 minutes: +5
  • win in 6 minutes: +6
  • (it would be best to have a continuous linear function below 18 minutes, rather than a discrete step function)
On a related note, I think it would also help discourage kill farming in Halo 6 to make all the hard commendations WIN-based (especially company commendations like Achilles). When you need to grind millions upon millions of spartan kills for a commendation, farming is a very efficient way to do it...Why not make the "long-grind" commendations more like this, as opposed to kill based (you can sill include some easier kill-based commendations):
  1. Win N WZ games
  2. Destroy the core in N regular WZ games.
  3. Win N WZA games.
  4. Win N CTF games
  5. Win N Strongholds games
  6. etc...
I really think a big problem with 12-man WZ teams came down to kill farming for commendations. Unbalanced WZ games aren't that bad if they core you in like 6 minutes. But when they farm you for 15 minutes at your armory or home base, not even trying to core...? That's the worst.

If you coupled farming dis-incentives, with quick-win XP/RP incentives, PLUS added a forfeit option, you might even be able to bring back 12-man fireteams in WZ and WZA. It's really sad those 12-man teams didn't work in general... since there's SO much potential for awesome sweaty games between big fireteams working in coordination. Warlords is cool, but has major player population issues, and is rarely an option.
(Bold italics) THANK YOU!! I'm glad someone else agrees with me about making commendations that are weapon, SA etc specific is a terrible idea. Commendations should be things like...

-Win x Slayer matches
-Cap x flags
-Blow up X cores
-Kill x Spartans

....And so on, stuff like RzR J3ST3R also suggested. Stuff like get X kills with power Weapons, get X first strikes, get X splatters etc are fine too as they cover a wide variety of playlists and game mode.... Just no more weapon specific ones like get X kills with the Strom rifle or rockets or sword or whatever. God I have nightmares of kids running around halo 4 with just a PP trying to get kills... Those types of ones (weapon specific) make people not focus on playing the match which in turn leads to terrible games. It also encourages people killing you for x gun, farming and so forth.

Also, if your going to put things in like kill x marines, make sure there are actually game mode that let you get them. Killing Marines for example is only in 1 game mode in H5 and you barely get any when you do play. Consider also that not all your fanbase wants to play maybe that 1 mode just go get it. Hence in the future, I'd stick with Commendations that cover more then one playlist, game mode as I suggested earlier :)

Sorry to go on, just making my point very clear lol
ZaedynFel wrote:
...cut..
Is it possible to have a feedback from 343 about heavy aim, sluggish movements, latency and in general server's issues/performance??

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/62j6ms/optic_halo_discussing_heavy_aim_issues_at_worlds/

tnx
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
(Bold italics) THANK YOU!! I'm glad someone else agrees with me about making commendations that are weapon, SA etc specific is a terrible idea.
To be clear, I have no problem with weapon-specific or weird/eclectic commendations which are achievable in a reasonable number of games, but especially for the COMPANY commendations, I don't like the kill-specific ones since they encourage farming.

FWIW, trying to destroy enough mongooses to complete that commendation was PAINFUL... But completing spartan charges and assassinations for Achilles was just stupid.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
(Bold italics) THANK YOU!! I'm glad someone else agrees with me about making commendations that are weapon, SA etc specific is a terrible idea.
To be clear, I have no problem with weapon-specific or weird/eclectic commendations which are achievable in a reasonable number of games, but especially for the COMPANY commendations, I don't like the kill-specific ones since they encourage farming.

FWIW, trying to destroy enough mongooses to complete that commendation was PAINFUL... But completing spartan charges and assassinations for Achilles was just stupid.
Ok I think I get ya.. we're similar I think. I don't think weapon specific ones should be in. Like kill x with with a BR, pistol, surpressor, Strom rifle and so on.

I think the ones like get X kills with your standard​ weapons, get X grenade kills, get X headshots, have a k/d over x and so forth should be. Ones that can be acquired no matter what the player likes to play in Halo.

Weapon specific ones are bad IMO due to people betraying you for that say Sniper for example just so they can finish there sniper Commendation. I actually don't have a problem with get X assassination, SC,GP etc kills as you can do those in any playlist. Unlike kill x Marines where it's literally just in one mode of play and if someone doesn't like warzone, then I guess they're screwed. You don't want people playing a mode they don't really want to play. It just makes other people's experiences worst.
Apoll0 wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Never understood why you didn't just keep the system as the numbers, seeing as that was a better indicator of ones skill, is it that important to mimic LoL ranks because that's a more popular game?
Pretty much every type of legitimate ranked MM system uses a set of progressive symbols in concert with CSR to rank players for a reason. Its not specific to LoL. If you want 1-50 to return, there MUST be a 50+ structure in place for the higher ranked players. If you just continue the numbers onward, then that 50 rank becomes totally arbitrary. Since it's not "The end" it loses its meaning and you can't possibly hope to hit whatever the max happens to be.
If you go the other way and retain 1-50 then add an additional symbol-based system on top of that, there is no continuity there and you have the same loss of meaning as before. If you go back to the strict 1-50 ranks where there is no representation above 50, its not an accurate system.
The current system has continuity, accuracy and can accommodate the 50+ folks. Like any MM system it needs upkeep and tweaking of the way matching works and player feedback but i fail to see how reverting back to a strict 1-50 would be a net positive other than "nostalgia, for the feels man" :)
What about having the MMR be the 1-50 per playlist that doesn't reset every season and the bronze-champion be the seasonal ranks? I don't know what's about the 1-50 that makes it more interesting than bronze, gold... Maybe because I've been playing halo since CE, idk..
Yo realtalk the Halo 5 MM needs fixing or better balancing, 2/3 games today Ive got teammates who i could say have no thumbs, I had a player who is D2 go 8 - 15, Ive got players with practically no idea of map control or know to grab power weapons, got a player DNF, and my last game we had a mix of plat against 2 plats, 1 gold and a Onyx 2000s who admits hes boosting. Seriously this game is really frustrating for solo players, the only playlist i can now play with a hope in hells chance of winning is FFA, which already stuggles to get games nevermind a game with good connection, and even then your win percentage is killed unless you come 1st place although a win reward of CSR is given for top 3. So I beg of you please do something to make this game safe for solo players because it's getting ridiculous trying to play this game and have fun.

Halo 3 and even Reach didn't have this problem, you could solo queue all day, say gg and have fun, so I don't get why this isn't the case in Halo 5.
Yo realtalk the Halo 5 MM needs fixing or better balancing, 2/3 games today Ive got teammates who i could say have no thumbs, I had a player who is D2 go 8 - 15, Ive got players with practically no idea of map control or know to grab power weapons, got a player DNF, and my last game we had a mix of plat against 2 plats, 1 gold and a Onyx 2000s who admits hes boosting. Seriously this game is really frustrating for solo players, the only playlist i can now play with a hope in hells chance of winning is FFA, which already stuggles to get games nevermind a game with good connection, and even then your win percentage is killed unless you come 1st place although a win reward of CSR is given for top 3. So I beg of you please do something to make this game safe for solo players because it's getting ridiculous trying to play this game and have fun.

Halo 3 and even Reach didn't have this problem, you could solo queue all day, say gg and have fun, so I don't get why this isn't the case in Halo 5.
It's hard for solo players because H5 is SUCH a team oriented game, and plays so fast. It's not solely an issue with MM algorithms - H5 is really unforgiving if you don't support your teammates. There's so much joint rotation required to maintain spawn normalcy, and even a single teammate running around recklessly or dying at a bad time can totally change the momentum of a game. I've had games where i go 6-11 and feel like I played one of the best games of my life, cause I was constantly getting pushed by 2 players with no help from teammates and it was all I could do to stay alive and milk the situations as long as possible to help my teammates have an easier time elsewhere on the map.

K/D in a single game is only a very partial indicator of how well one played - especially in team arena.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Yo realtalk the Halo 5 MM needs fixing or better balancing, 2/3 games today Ive got teammates who i could say have no thumbs, I had a player who is D2 go 8 - 15, Ive got players with practically no idea of map control or know to grab power weapons, got a player DNF, and my last game we had a mix of plat against 2 plats, 1 gold and a Onyx 2000s who admits hes boosting. Seriously this game is really frustrating for solo players, the only playlist i can now play with a hope in hells chance of winning is FFA, which already stuggles to get games nevermind a game with good connection, and even then your win percentage is killed unless you come 1st place although a win reward of CSR is given for top 3. So I beg of you please do something to make this game safe for solo players because it's getting ridiculous trying to play this game and have fun.

Halo 3 and even Reach didn't have this problem, you could solo queue all day, say gg and have fun, so I don't get why this isn't the case in Halo 5.
It's hard for solo players because H5 is SUCH a team oriented game, and plays so fast. It's not solely an issue with MM algorithms - H5 is really unforgiving if you don't support your teammates. There's so much joint rotation required to maintain spawn normalcy, and even a single teammate running around recklessly or dying at a bad time can totally change the momentum of a game. I've had games where i go 6-11 and feel like I played one of the best games of my life, cause I was constantly getting pushed by 2 players with no help from teammates and it was all I could do to stay alive and milk the situations as long as possible to help my teammates have an easier time elsewhere on the map.

K/D in a single game is only a very partial indicator of how well one played - especially in team arena.
If it was Team Arena I wouldnt solo, but either way there is practically no balance with these games, ive had probably 2-3 out of 10 games that were close because i start carrying, the rest im losing because teammates are literally trashcans either screwing with spawns or failing to understand the basics of Slayer. We need a way of seeing MMR after match because atleast that would show me a reason for a bad performance. Seriously its a joke to think you can play solo anymore in halo, at this rate it may as well be Six Seige or CSGO with a Halo skin with how much this game depends on of having a team to enjoy it.
ZaedynFel wrote:
I have heard Josh Holmes and Quinn speak of this magical "50% W/L" rate being the ideal ratio, I've also scoured through tons of Spartan Companies full service records, and the combined Arena W/L % is almost always right at 50%. (And this is with 700+ DAYS of combined data usually). That is why I am convinced this game is set up to make you fail 50% of the time, which is a frustrating experience.

The difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 is that Halo 3 would never just randomly put you up against a 50 to challenge you.
We never do this. When they said things like, "tries to make you 50/50", they just meant that it tries to make every match perfectly even. It does nothing to try and "challenge" you if you are > 50.

I have a huge problem facing Champions when I'm a Platinum 3.

Don't put me in Diamond, then match me against Onyx 1700+ and punish me when I lose (even if it's just a little).

Champions should face Onyx 1700+, they should never see a Diamond, or Platinum, etc IMHO.
Keep in mind that Diamond is 46-50. In Halo 3, it was pretty common for 50s to match vs. 45-50, which is exactly what happens when Onyx plays vs. Diamond.

That said, I do agree there's a messaging issue we could improve. When we match you as a Diamond vs. an Onyx, it's because we "expect" you to perform like an Onyx player in that match, and therefore to make sure the match is even, we need another Onyx. So, like I've said in previous posts, it might be nice if we told everyone what we had expected after the match, "We expected them to play like Diamond, but they played like Onyx and won" or "Even though you're Diamond, we expected you to play like an Onyx that game based on your recent performance, and you did! Keep doing that and it'll prove you're Onyx."

Because I think even though some of these matches look uneven visually, a lot of them are actually fine in the actual gameplay. Some aren't, but that happens in every game.
When this happens when you are diamond 6 it's OK. But when you are still in platinum matching onyx players or high diamond makes no sense. since your chance of winning is 50% the chances of ranking up are pretty low, so even when you play at that level you will never reach it. When your chance of winning is more than 50% playing against your own level, you will go up!

Or do I completely misunderstand it? Giving a little extra to rank up won't make up the difference
What is going to be done about Champion players partying up with smurf accounts and low ranks in order to match up against gold and platinum players just to pad stats and wins?
MJBfox wrote:
When this happens when you are diamond 6 it's OK. But when you are still in platinum matching onyx players or high diamond makes no sense. since your chance of winning is 50% the chances of ranking up are pretty low, so even when you play at that level you will never reach it. When your chance of winning is more than 50% playing against your own level, you will go up!

Or do I completely misunderstand it? Giving a little extra to rank up won't make up the difference
We can't let you stomp easier teams to climb the Ranks faster, that's not fair to them.

If we give you a match you can win more than 50%, then we are giving your opponents a match they will lose more than half the time, which isn't cool.

So we will always give you as close to a 50/50 match as we can to be fair to both the good and bad players.

Giving you a match where you have more than a 50% chance of winning is actually slower than matching you with Onyx. This is because:
  • you'll get a lot less points per win
  • your teammates will be Platinum instead of Onyx, so you will lose more often just due to random chance having worse teammates.
The fastest way for you to rank up is definitely to play exactly where we think you should, with Onyx teammates vs. Onyx players.

Also, we give a lot more than just a little extra rank, and it does indeed make up the difference. If you are mid-Platinum but playing vs. Onyx, you will be getting +28 for a win and -2 for a loss, for a net of +13 every match. That's a lot of extra CSR, and you will close the gap quickly.
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