Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – March 5

OP ZaedynFel

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Season Roll
As you’ve noticed by now, we rolled the season March 1st. We also adjusted the skill boundaries this time around to be a bit more forgiving. The net effect is that in most ranked lists, Onyx will be around 10% of the players instead of the usual 2-3%. For the curious, this also corresponds to Onyx being about the same as a “50” in Halo 3.

Yes, this does water down the skill of Onyx players, but those Diamond players who will now get into Onyx are better than Diamond players a year ago, so it’s not too much of a stretch. In addition, from an intuition point of view, if Diamond players play against Onyx fairly often, we might as well call them Onyx.

Keep in mind, this will NOT change your ranking compared to other players. You will still have a lower CSR than previous Onyx players. CSR gaps in skill get significant after around 300. So an 1800 will “feel” significantly better than a 1500.

Playlist Popularity
Here’s an update on playlist popularity using the last week. The Halo 3 list has pulled some folks away from Super Fiesta, so Super Fiesta and Slayer are neck and neck right now.

We’ve gotten a few questions about the future of the Halo 3 list. It’s too early to say anything based on its current performance. It takes awhile to judge a list. If it follows its previous performance, it would remain a solid rotational.

Of course, this begs the question of why so many even less popular lists have not been changed to rotational status. This is a valid question and I’ll try and explain.

First, data suggests that many rotationals are popular because they are rotationals. Very few rotational playlists maintain a consistent popularity outside of a week or so. So making them permanent would just replace less popular lists with different less popular lists.

On the other hand, by the same token, we could probably increase the weekly ranking of many lists by making them rotationals instead of permanents. This would be great because many lists that currently struggle because of lower popularity could have bursts of great matchmaking during their rotations.

So we agree with the basic principle that it would be better if underperforming lists became rotationals. The reason we haven’t done this yet is that while we are comfortable in our current cadence of changing one rotational every few weeks, it would require a significant amount of planning to do the same with a large set of lists. It would also require precise messaging so players are clear on when their favorite lists are up to play. It’s something we are actively evaluating.

Super Fiesta
Slayer
Heroic Warzone Firefight
Warzone
Quick Play
Halo 3 Classic Throwback
Big Team Battle
Infection
Legendary Warzone Firefight
SWAT
HaloWC 2018
Team Arena
Doubles
Action Sack
Mythic Warzone Firefight
Breakout
HaloWC FFA
Shotty Snipers
Snipers
Warzone Assault
Grifball
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
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ImAri3s wrote:
Not the place.
Sorry about that.
I’m really impressed, zaedynFel!
Thanks for all that info and for your hard work too
👍
Yes, there should definitely be a culling and consolidation of playlists. Some need to moved out of ranked and some need to be removed entirely and turned rotational.

It doesn't make sense for both Snipers and Shotty Snipers to exist at the same time nor for snipers to be ranked.
HCS and Team Arena shouldn't be separate playlists.
I also don't understand why there are 3 variations of firefight... just make one playlist that increases in difficulty until failure.
Warzone is apparently one of the more populated playlists but I can’t find a game to save my life. I’ll wait 5 minutes then leave because nothing is happening. As for the classic playlist, I think it should stay. While I agree that the fact that it’s rotational is what makes these playlists popular, we need a classic playlist for the many fans of classic Halo if Halo is continuing with advanced movement.
Apoll0 wrote:
I also don't understand why there are 3 variations of firefight... just make one playlist that increases in difficulty until failure.
That's not how Warzone Firefight works. WZFF has a finite number of rounds, which is pretty much necessary for a matchmade game. What you are asking for is more reminiscent of Halo 3 ODST Firefight.
I believe the key to "messaging so players are clear on when their favorite lists are up to play" is to reduce the cadence to 1 week, and keep the rotation consistent.

The Halo 3 Grifball Double EXP Weekend was wildly successful for many reasons. It was not uncommon to see population numbers in the 40 thousands.We (GrifballHUB Admins) believe the primary reason was that players knew that the first Friday of the month was Grifball Friday. I remember firing up the playlist the moment it launched with a population number of 40. When the game ended and we were dropped back to the matching screen and the population number was in the thousands. Players knew exactly when to get their Grifball fix without having to read the Weekly Update.

I have proposed this formula a few times and i feel it should be considered again.

Week 1 - Grifball
Week 2 - 343i Choice (Shotty Snipers, Rock & Rail etc.)
Week 3 - Extermination
Week 4 - Forge Community Choice (Roaming King, Castle Wars etc.)
Week 5 - (Mar, Jun, Aug, Nov have a 5th Friday) Experimental. This is used to test new modes which could be placed into the Week 2 or Week 4 slots.
Now that you have the manpower for a speedier turnover (hi Randy Croson) will you consider this proposal?
Chimera30 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
I also don't understand why there are 3 variations of firefight... just make one playlist that increases in difficulty until failure.
That's not how Warzone Firefight works. WZFF has a finite number of rounds, which is pretty much necessary for a matchmade game. What you are asking for is more reminiscent of Halo 3 ODST Firefight.
I think that is the point he is trying to make. Bring back real Firefight
el Dunco wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
I also don't understand why there are 3 variations of firefight... just make one playlist that increases in difficulty until failure.
That's not how Warzone Firefight works. WZFF has a finite number of rounds, which is pretty much necessary for a matchmade game. What you are asking for is more reminiscent of Halo 3 ODST Firefight.
I think that is the point he is trying to make. Bring back real Firefight
That won't happen for Halo 5. And if you want to talk about what future Halo games should have, there are other threads for that.
ZaedynFel wrote:
...stuff...
@Josh -

Any update on the new TrueSkill that you can pass along?

Also, with the change for Onyx going from 2-3% of the population to roughly 10% what effect will that have on the percentages of the other Tiers? Will Bronze also increase percentage-wise in similar fashion (so approximately 10%)? Gold and Platinum percentages will obviously decrease while Silver and Diamond end up somewhere between the Onyx/Bronze percentage and the Gold/Platinum percentage, right? If so, is that an increase or decrease in percentage for Silver/Diamond?

***interesting ideas***
@runNOKYARDrun

I have proposed a formula a little different to yours, but perhaps it's not all that drastically far off.

SOCIAL:
  • Quickplay
  • BTB:
    <> Slayer, CTF, (Neutral Bomb) Assault, Strongholds
  • Super Fiesta
  • Action Sack - could use a *refresh
  • Infection
  • Breakout & Extermination - Weekend Only that switches between the two modes weekly. The Breakout Playlist should be a mixed-bag, so versions 1.0, 2.0, and Arena.
  • Weekly Feature: More or less a consistent group of playlists.
    <> Castle Wars, Modern Throwback, Shotty Snips, Classic Throwback, and Community Skirmish (to include something potentially New/Experimental from 343i or the community). Somewhat similar to your 4-5 week rotation.
*Modes like Mythic Shotty Snips, Rock 'N Rail, Rocket Party, Fiesta FFA, Multi-Team, etc. should be used to refresh and further diversify the amount of options within the Action Sack playlist.

RANKED:
  • HCS:
    <> Slayer, Strongholds, CTF, Oddball? - Hmmm... I wonder if the updated spawn influences will make it viable for HCS even if it's not a 2018 HaloWC possibility?
  • Slayer
  • SWAT
  • Doubles
  • FFA
  • Objective: Rotates Seasonally per Mode (or should it be a mixed-bag playlist?)
    <> CTF, Strongholds, Assault, Oddball
  • Grifball - Weekend Only
What are your thoughts about a Ranked Grifball playlist that's only available on the weekends? It'd be similar to how the Mythic Firefight playlist is treated and it's a little bit of a throwback to double experience weekend Grifball from the past.
ZaedynFel wrote:
As you’ve noticed by now, we rolled the season March 1st.
Actually no I didn't notice 😂
Apoll0 wrote:
I also don't understand why there are 3 variations of firefight... just make one playlist that increases in difficulty until failure.
Though I can agree with the other stuff you said (snipers and shotty snipers seems redundant to me), mixing up all the firefight difficulties into one playlist wouldn't be a good idea. I like to play Heroic and it wouldn't be fun to get forced to play the more bullet-spongy difficulty with skulls on. There's a reason why Heroic firefight is way more popular than Legendary and Mythic.
Also, updating or refreshing playlists could help ones lower on the list. Breakout hasn't been touched in a year and a half. If a rotational list like H3 Throwback can get new maps, why can't Breakout? And there's also a pretty good contingent clamoring for OG Breakout settings; might help to lift up this list. Assult and Oddball are non existent (I know there's some assult in BTB) and would do nicely to boost up Team Arena while also distinguishing it more from HCS. It'd be good to have a place to earn some of those new Oddball medals, or even PLAY Oddball. A little disappointed that much of stuff from the Overtime update that had people excited for more Halo is currently unavailable! What say you Josh? Oddball and Assult in Team Arena?? Eh?
Ranked:
  • Arena/HCS
  • Slayer
  • Doubles
  • FFA
Social:
  • Quick Play (aka Skirmish, but actually pick good gametypes this time)
  • Super Fiesta
  • SWAT
  • Big Team Battle
  • (Snipers)
  • (Infection)
Warzone:
Warzone
Warzone Assault
Firefight
Mythic Firefight (Weekend)

Rotational:
Chop up Action Sack and Grifball into individual gametypes for Double XP weekends and community playdates/challenges.

Rotate Breakout, Snipers, Covenant Slayer, H3 Classic, Shotty Snipes, etc. as weekly offerings.

Where are Assault and Oddball?
If Reach can have a permanent CEA playlist that is still there over 7 years later then I see no reason why Halo 5 can't have a permanent classic playlist.
JJAB91 wrote:
If Reach can have a permanent CEA playlist that is still there over 7 years later then I see no reason why Halo 5 can't have a permanent classic playlist.
Reach is an unsupported game that no longer receives playlist updates.
Halo 5 is still active supported and playlist rotations are determined by healthy population, as noted in the OP. If you want to see it stick around, keep playing
honestly think team arena should be taken out. HWC is all we need as far as objective team based gameplay. also breakout should be taken out, its not fun, very low population and i have literally seen champions get beaten by golds in that playlist.
I believe the key to "messaging so players are clear on when their favorite lists are up to play" is to reduce the cadence to 1 week, and keep the rotation consistent.

The Halo 3 Grifball Double EXP Weekend was wildly successful for many reasons. It was not uncommon to see population numbers in the 40 thousands.We (GrifballHUB Admins) believe the primary reason was that players knew that the first Friday of the month was Grifball Friday. I remember firing up the playlist the moment it launched with a population number of 40. When the game ended and we were dropped back to the matching screen and the population number was in the thousands. Players knew exactly when to get their Grifball fix without having to read the Weekly Update.

I have proposed this formula a few times and i feel it should be considered again.

Week 1 - Grifball
Week 2 - 343i Choice (Shotty Snipers, Rock & Rail etc.)
Week 3 - Extermination
Week 4 - Forge Community Choice (Roaming King, Castle Wars etc.)
Week 5 - (Mar, Jun, Aug, Nov have a 5th Friday) Experimental. This is used to test new modes which could be placed into the Week 2 or Week 4 slots.
Now that you have the manpower for a speedier turnover (hi Randy Croson) will you consider this proposal?
I would add that the messages sent out to players can be done multiple ways. I would seriously think about adding a schedule to the main screen or at least add upcoming playlist info in the messages. But regularity is prolly the stronger method... not that only one thing can be done.

You don't have to be super careful if you're only experimenting with a couple playlists. Frank trial and error can be used to figure things out quicker. It'll pay off and players will see that.

I highly recommend another Community-based playlist or two to engage the community even more. A completely community-made list of the highly playable gametypes (Extermination, Roaming King, Invasion) and/or a list of whichever gametypes the community chooses.

I understand that updating playlists is far more complicated than us players would think, but if there's anything the community can do to lighten the load, let us know. The capabilities I've seen amongst the Halo base and integrity/work of the cartographers I've had the pleasure to see tells me the power of this community isn't being close to fully tapped.
It would be interesting to put new maps to the list of qualification or even the maps of halo 3 the game is already boring with the same maps
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