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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 1

OP ZaedynFel

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Curious as to how soft forfeit will affect placement matches for the upcoming season? Like if I've completed 5 placement matches and in my 6th game 2 of my teammates quit , if I quit will that still count as my 6th game? I'm pretty sure it would since it does still count as a loss so this is probably a stupid question. But it just doesn't seem fair for someone's starting placement to be determined by other players quitting out of games. I mean I've had games where we may be losing by a pretty good margin, someone quits because it appears we're going to lose anyway, but we're able to bring it back and only lose by a couple kills. Assuming the player who quit wasn't terrible and could've gotten a couple kills, we would've won. But it would still count against us because we lost, even though it should've been an easy win had the teams been even. Or do the placement matches look at your individual performance rather than wins/losses? So like in instances where a player may be on the losing team, but individually scored better than everyone on the team that beat them (mostly thinking in terms of Slayer here since who played better in objective games is harder to determine just by looking at the stats) would they stand a chance of being placed at the same rank or higher than those players they out scored (assuming this happens consistently) or would they be placed lower than them since the team lost? I'm assuming it looks mainly at wins/losses because I've had seasons where it feel like I'm crapping on everyone but losing because the other players on my team are either quitting or going 3-17, and am ranked much lower than I expect based on my individual performance. Of course this has also worked the other way around where I feel like I've played like crap, but my teammates do well (this is solo queuing by the way, not partying up or playing with people who are better than me, just playing whatever matchmaking throws at me) and I've ended up at a higher rank than I expected (nothing crazy like placing Diamond for getting carried, but maybe placing Platinum when I felt like I played like a low Gold for a lot of the matches) or ending with the same rank in say Slayer and SWAT when I feel like I played extremely well in SWAT and played like crap in Slayer. I guess this is really more asking if anyone could point me to somewhere that discusses how your placement is determined or how the placement matches work rather than the question I initially put forth since I'm pretty sure I answered my own question and it would still count as a game you quit out of just like it did before. I'm not criticizing the current system since I know things like population and the average skill of players playing in each individual playlist probably determine where you fall rank wise which could explain those instances I mentioned where you have the same rank in two playlists but feel like you played well in one of them, but not as good in the other. I'm just genuinely interested in learning how this all works together to determine your starting rank.
Placement works off of your MMR, which is never reset. MMR change when you quit is treated a bit differently. It's weighted by how much of the match you were there for currently. In the future, we may also include the fact that you quit, and detect if it was a disconnect vs. quitting because you were performing poorly.

When the season rolls, we do bump your MMR variance up a bit so it can move a little faster if it has to, but unless you actually got better, it tends to stay near where it was.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Curious as to how soft forfeit will affect placement matches for the upcoming season? Like if I've completed 5 placement matches and in my 6th game 2 of my teammates quit , if I quit will that still count as my 6th game? I'm pretty sure it would since it does still count as a loss so this is probably a stupid question. But it just doesn't seem fair for someone's starting placement to be determined by other players quitting out of games. I mean I've had games where we may be losing by a pretty good margin, someone quits because it appears we're going to lose anyway, but we're able to bring it back and only lose by a couple kills. Assuming the player who quit wasn't terrible and could've gotten a couple kills, we would've won. But it would still count against us because we lost, even though it should've been an easy win had the teams been even. Or do the placement matches look at your individual performance rather than wins/losses? So like in instances where a player may be on the losing team, but individually scored better than everyone on the team that beat them (mostly thinking in terms of Slayer here since who played better in objective games is harder to determine just by looking at the stats) would they stand a chance of being placed at the same rank or higher than those players they out scored (assuming this happens consistently) or would they be placed lower than them since the team lost? I'm assuming it looks mainly at wins/losses because I've had seasons where it feel like I'm crapping on everyone but losing because the other players on my team are either quitting or going 3-17, and am ranked much lower than I expect based on my individual performance. Of course this has also worked the other way around where I feel like I've played like crap, but my teammates do well (this is solo queuing by the way, not partying up or playing with people who are better than me, just playing whatever matchmaking throws at me) and I've ended up at a higher rank than I expected (nothing crazy like placing Diamond for getting carried, but maybe placing Platinum when I felt like I played like a low Gold for a lot of the matches) or ending with the same rank in say Slayer and SWAT when I feel like I played extremely well in SWAT and played like crap in Slayer. I guess this is really more asking if anyone could point me to somewhere that discusses how your placement is determined or how the placement matches work rather than the question I initially put forth since I'm pretty sure I answered my own question and it would still count as a game you quit out of just like it did before. I'm not criticizing the current system since I know things like population and the average skill of players playing in each individual playlist probably determine where you fall rank wise which could explain those instances I mentioned where you have the same rank in two playlists but feel like you played well in one of them, but not as good in the other. I'm just genuinely interested in learning how this all works together to determine your starting rank.
Placement works off of your MMR, which is never reset. MMR change when you quit is treated a bit differently. It's weighted by how much of the match you were there for currently. In the future, we may also include the fact that you quit, and detect if it was a disconnect vs. quitting because you were performing poorly.

When the season rolls, we do bump your MMR variance up a bit so it can move a little faster if it has to, but unless you actually got better, it tends to stay near where it was.
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up :)
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ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
  • Even Stricter CSR boundaries: Onyx population reduced again
    • The previously fixed inflation bug had inflated this despite the changes.
    • We should see even stricter boundaries in the new season
Features live now:
  • Expanded Switching back to Balanced bug is fixed
  • CSR inflation drastically reduced
  • CSR smurfing incentives greatly reduced
  • Better CSR gains for high-skilled players early in the season
  • Reduced wait times for SWAT and FFA
This should be a great season!
Great news Josh! I know this was an issue with FFA so the CSR this season was a little wacky, but will it affect other playlist populations as well? I play primarily slayer and I'd love to know if it will be harder to get onyx this season than previous ones. Thanks again!
Onyx will be only a little harder in Slayer since Slayer's Onyx percentile was already pretty small. Less than 4% of all players got Onyx in Slayer this season.
Oh okay, great! Thanks for the info Josh! Another question: I've reached my highest CSR this past season, it's roughly 300 - 400 CSR higher than the previous season. How likely is it that I'll place around the same CSR next season after the 10 placement games assuming I maintain the same level of play? This isn't necessarily a request for you to look up my personal stats because I'm 100% sure you have way more important things to do but more as a way of understanding how the backend works. I know the MMR works like a bell curve so the more "better games" you have the higher your average and/or median score is and so the more you play and the more you play well, the higher the MMR and that CSR is 200 points less than MMR after the first 10 placement matches. Actually, did I just answer my own question? Can you verify? Lol.
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
  • Even Stricter CSR boundaries: Onyx population reduced again
    • The previously fixed inflation bug had inflated this despite the changes.
    • We should see even stricter boundaries in the new season
Features live now:
  • Expanded Switching back to Balanced bug is fixed
  • CSR inflation drastically reduced
  • CSR smurfing incentives greatly reduced
  • Better CSR gains for high-skilled players early in the season
  • Reduced wait times for SWAT and FFA
This should be a great season!
Great news Josh! I know this was an issue with FFA so the CSR this season was a little wacky, but will it affect other playlist populations as well? I play primarily slayer and I'd love to know if it will be harder to get onyx this season than previous ones. Thanks again!
Onyx will be only a little harder in Slayer since Slayer's Onyx percentile was already pretty small. Less than 4% of all players got Onyx in Slayer this season.
Oh okay, great! Thanks for the info Josh! Another question: I've reached my highest CSR this past season, it's roughly 300 - 400 CSR higher than the previous season. How likely is it that I'll place around the same CSR next season after the 10 placement games assuming I maintain the same level of play? This isn't necessarily a request for you to look up my personal stats because I'm 100% sure you have way more important things to do but more as a way of understanding how the backend works. I know the MMR works like a bell curve so the more "better games" you have the higher your average and/or median score is and so the more you play and the more you play well, the higher the MMR and that CSR is 200 points less than MMR after the first 10 placement matches. Actually, did I just answer my own question? Can you verify? Lol.
You will probably start in Onyx. Might be hard to get to 1900 though. 1700 shouldn't be hard.
  • No ban if someone has already left
What about those times when the game starts with only 3 players?
  • You still lose the same amount of CSR as a normal loss.
Why? You're in a lose-lose situation. If you leave your CSR drops and if you stay your K/D gets thrashed.
Teams would have a designated "first quitter" for games they couldn't win, and the other 3 would lose no CSR despite being the worse team. You always need to think about how -Yoinks!- will ruin anything that you give them.
ZaedynFel wrote:
You know Josh all of this sounds great but without fully working servers this wont mean much, btw have you got any, literally any idea of when the recent issues will be fixed in regards to the servers?
Is this every match for you? Or just some?

Can you link some matches this happened in?
Ever since Monitors Bounty update I get disconnects almost all the time now. I've been playing since day one. Never did before Monitors Bounty though. Not sure if this happens to Xl DeViLz IX but this is what keeps happening to me (and others I know) almost every game,

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Dead%20End%2024/video/30485318 or the same thing happens but I just get this message at the end instead http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Dead%20End%2024/screenshot/5505896.

That match was in BTB as you can see, but it doesn't matter what I play. I know a few other people that this happens to as well. I would play Halo 5 so much more (I still play, cause sometimes I get good days where it doesn't happen much lol) if this didn't happen, but since this started happening, I don't play anywhere near as much anymore, It's just too frustrating.
ZaedynFel wrote:
UPDATE 2: Soft Forfeit is now LIVE. Looks like this got in early.UPDATE 1: Season Roll is May 4thWe have a new season on the horizon, so for this update I’m going to list the new changes going in this season, and also summarize the updates we’ve made up till now.

I don’t have an exact ETA on the season roll, but it should be later this week. When it does roll, the “new” features will be live. The other features are already live.

New Features that will be live with the Season Roll:
  • Soft Forfeit
    • It will be "safe" to leave if someone has already left the match (from either team).
    • No need to stay on to prevent a ban or extra point loss.
    • No ban if someone has already left
    • No extra CSR loss penalty if someone has already left.
    • You still lose the same amount of CSR as a normal loss.
    • Leavers always lose CSR, regardless of how their team does after, so it’s better to stay if you’re on the winning / advantaged team until the other team leaves.
  • Reduced early-season wait times for higher-skilled players
    • High-skilled players sometimes get MMRs that are higher than is needed.
    • These will now be truncated to a reasonable value at the beginning of the season.
    • They are still high enough to prevent very uneven matches, but low enough to allow more timely matchmaking.
  • Even Stricter CSR boundaries: Onyx population reduced again
    • The previously fixed inflation bug had inflated this despite the changes.
    • We should see even stricter boundaries in the new season
Features live now:
  • Expanded Switching back to Balanced bug is fixed
  • CSR inflation drastically reduced
  • CSR smurfing incentives greatly reduced
  • Better CSR gains for high-skilled players early in the season
  • Reduced wait times for SWAT and FFA
This should be a great season!
Hey Josh, what about that whole party matchmaking implementation you used to talk about? You said that parties (let's say Platinum) will be considered a higher rank while searching, so solo players would individually have to be a higher rank to match with them (in this case, Diamond) or another equally raised party.

Was that ever implemented?
ZaedynFel wrote:
  • No ban if someone has already left
What about those times when the game starts with only 3 players?
  • You still lose the same amount of CSR as a normal loss.
Why? You're in a lose-lose situation. If you leave your CSR drops and if you stay your K/D gets thrashed. This is stupid.
If it starts with only 3 players, that means there WAS a 4th player, but they left during loading. In these cases, you're safe to leave.

You have to lose CSR, otherwise it would be trivial to exploit, especially when in a party:
  • Are we losing? Convince whoever's turn it is to leave early
  • Everyone else leaves without losing CSR
  • With 50/50 matchmaking, where your CSR should not be going up or down you net +30 CSR every 8 games and constantly go up. (-30 once for everyone on their turn, and +15 to everyone for 4 wins = 4 * 15 - 30 = 60 - 30 = +30 points per 8 games when it should be +0)
True but it also makes the system more easy to abuse in other ways.

Look at the leaderboards for K/D: they just quit out half their games to intentionally lose CSR and stay low rank.

This completely removes the incentive to stick around the first couple minutes to wait & see how the match is going to turn out, allowing them to quit games at an even faster rate.
They can rack up 5 quits/"losses" before the ban hammer can even catch up.

I understand the party exploit is important too, but man you guys really gotta do something about the chronic quitters because they only affect the low-rank newcomers who are just going to give up on the game before even giving it a chance.

These guys are bleeding the population by slowing the flow of new players, and nobody is going to notice because they aren't yet invested enough in the game to bother providing feedback to 343.
ske7ch wrote:
FYI the new season is scheduled to kick off on Thursday, May 4.
Time?
ske7ch wrote:
FYI the new season is scheduled to kick off on Thursday, May 4.
Time?
ske7ch wrote:
FYI the new season is scheduled to kick off on Thursday, May 4.
Time?
Yeah now I can play swat and hopefully not wait 5-10 minutes in between matches!
ZaedynFel wrote:
All these things sound very good! I'm curious how soft forfeit will affect matches. One question though: how did you reduce the incentives to smurf?
See previous updates. The higher up you go in skill, the harder it is to maintain your CSR unless you play with equally-skilled fireteams.
Thanks for the explanation! And thank you a lot for regularly providing us with lots of information <3
Is anyone else here having issues with Team Arena? I haven't been able to find a match in 2 days. Every time I search it just eventually times out... Is there anything I can do? Other playlists seems to be working fine.
How about you guys fix the ranking system to where you can ONLY play people of your same rank. If I'm a gold 1 I have no business playing a platinum 6 or a diamond 6 while matchmaking and using focused as my search preference. I'm not that good of a player. Actually I'm terrible. So matching me with really good players is ridiculous. Why is it called a ranked gametype if I'm not playing people of my same rank. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system. I struggle all season long just to get gold 1 and as soon as I get it i get matched with platinum or diamond players and then I'm back down to silver 6. Also if you are in a fireteam with someone that is not your same rank you shouldn't be allowed to play a ranked game. Having someone else rank you up is wrong. You don't deserve that rank unless you got it by yourself.
Is the 'Team Arena' playlist being replaced with the HCS playlist?
Is the 'Team Arena' playlist being replaced with the HCS playlist?
We wouldn't make a decision like that without observing the health of both lists over time.
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How about you guys fix the ranking system to where you can ONLY play people of your same rank. If I'm a gold 1 I have no business playing a platinum 6 or a diamond 6 while matchmaking and using focused as my search preference. I'm not that good of a player. Actually I'm terrible. So matching me with really good players is ridiculous. Why is it called a ranked gametype if I'm not playing people of my same rank. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system. I struggle all season long just to get gold 1 and as soon as I get it i get matched with platinum or diamond players and then I'm back down to silver 6. Also if you are in a fireteam with someone that is not your same rank you shouldn't be allowed to play a ranked game. Having someone else rank you up is wrong. You don't deserve that rank unless you got it by yourself.
I've addressed this extensively in previous updates, so I urge you read through them.
What time are the ranks resetting?
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How about you guys fix the ranking system to where you can ONLY play people of your same rank. If I'm a gold 1 I have no business playing a platinum 6 or a diamond 6 while matchmaking and using focused as my search preference. I'm not that good of a player. Actually I'm terrible. So matching me with really good players is ridiculous. Why is it called a ranked gametype if I'm not playing people of my same rank. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system. I struggle all season long just to get gold 1 and as soon as I get it i get matched with platinum or diamond players and then I'm back down to silver 6. Also if you are in a fireteam with someone that is not your same rank you shouldn't be allowed to play a ranked game. Having someone else rank you up is wrong. You don't deserve that rank unless you got it by yourself.
Not enough people playing this game for them to be able to do that. You would be searching for a match for an hour to find 8 people all in the same rank. And if your a silver and have a buddy who is a gold you don't think you should be able to party up together? Lol now I can see if a silver is partyd up with onyx or champ they are probably just boosting and that should not be allowed.
NWEEZY wrote:
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How about you guys fix the ranking system to where you can ONLY play people of your same rank. If I'm a gold 1 I have no business playing a platinum 6 or a diamond 6 while matchmaking and using focused as my search preference. I'm not that good of a player. Actually I'm terrible. So matching me with really good players is ridiculous. Why is it called a ranked gametype if I'm not playing people of my same rank. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system. I struggle all season long just to get gold 1 and as soon as I get it i get matched with platinum or diamond players and then I'm back down to silver 6. Also if you are in a fireteam with someone that is not your same rank you shouldn't be allowed to play a ranked game. Having someone else rank you up is wrong. You don't deserve that rank unless you got it by yourself.
Not enough people playing this game for them to be able to do that. You would be searching for a match for an hour to find 8 people all in the same rank. And if your a silver and have a buddy who is a gold you don't think you should be able to party up together? Lol now I can see if a silver is partyd up with onyx or champ they are probably just boosting and that should not be allowed.
Halo Tracker Population Stats kinda disagree with you. Its not straight from the horses mouth but hell its not like were gunna get a population counter and it best we got.
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