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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 21

OP ZaedynFel

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So I can win 10 games in a row as a diamond player against other diamond players GAIN LITERALLY NO CSR. LOSE 2 GAMES AND IM A HALF A RANK DOWN!?!?!?!?!? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE!?!?!?!? PLEASE EXPLAIN. there's no way my MMR is that much lower than my csr. Is the new system trying to tell me i don't derserve to be a diamond or higher????? HELP PLZ!!!!
There are two ways you lose 15 CSR:
  • You don't beat a team you were supposed to beat.
  • Your CSR is inflated and you lost to a team who was supposed to beat you.
You don't gain CSR when:
  • Beating teams you were supposed to beat.
what's wrong with if your win you go up 10csr if you lose you go down 10csr while exclusively playing people who are your same csr and if people are partied up just go off of who ever has the highest csr
To eliminate boosting.
Champs play-Champs & Medium/high Onyx's

high Onyx's play-Champs & low/medium/high Onyx's

medium Onyx's play- low/medium/high Onyx's

low Onyx's play-low/medium Onyx's & high diamonds

high diamonds play-low onyxs & high\med diamonds

Medium diamonds play- low/ medium/ high diamonds
ect...
Chimera30 wrote:
Crqwe wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
As it is right now, we see csr inflation. Instead of grinding upwards in rank, we are seeing players going downwards. What you believe to remedy the inflation (even though it is) ends up discouraging players from even getting on halo altogether.
Players not going up but going down in CSR have inflated CSRs, meaning their CSRs are not accurate representations of their skills. So if they don't want to get on, it means they'd rather keep their fake skill over their true skill, because it makes them seem better than they are to everyone else. So what you're saying is that people care more about how other players think of them than actually playing the game itself.

Give people a system where everyone can get the rank they want and they complain it's meaningless. Give them a system that shows their true skill and they complain because they hate to be told they're not as good as they'd hoped they are. It's a lose-lose scenario.
Well, what about all of the other players who are high-level players and their ranks actually do accurately represent their skills but now with this new system we can't even play because of the one csr gain after every win? I literally ran into two High Onyx and Champ teams last night and we all agreed on one thing. There's no point in grinding the game right now because we gain nothing out of it. Currently, I am an Onyx 1828 in Slayer and I can't even grind for champ anymore because the new system believes I am not a good enough player to hold the rank... If I am beating some of the top guys in the playlists, and your system apparently thinks that their ranks don't accurately represent them either who am I suppose to beat to prove that my rank is accurate? This new system is only hurting the population even more.
If you're a high-tier player and only gaining 1 CSR per win, it could means one of two things:
  1. Your CSR isn't actually an accurate reflection of your skill after all.
  2. You won a match against weaker enemies, so since you were expected to win you didn't really show that you increased in skill.
Again, the change rolled out only affects people with inflated CSRs, so if you're affected, it means your CSR is too high. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but ask yourself what you want from a ranking system: something that accurately represents your skill, or something that just makes you look good to other people?

You say you consistently beat the top people in the playlist, but if they also have inflated CSR then they aren't really the top players. And if they do happen to be the top players, then what would happen behind the scenes is that your MMR will go up every time you win, even if your CSR doesn't. So when you MMR catches up, you'll start gaining more CSR again if you keep winning.
That last part has been a HUGE concept people have missed! Although you might only go up 1 CSR, if you did that like 30 times then in truth your MMR wouldn't be far behind you! Of course that's all depending on that individuals inflation.

ZaedynFel, just a suggestion about updating the OP stating that you can still grind your way to a higher rank, but it won't be visual until your MMR catches up to your CSR.
Wilshi wrote:
what's wrong with if your win you go up 10csr if you lose you go down 10csr while exclusively playing people who are your same csr and if people are partied up just go off of who ever has the highest csr
To eliminate boosting.
Champs play-Champs & Medium/high Onyx's

high Onyx's play-Champs & low/medium/high Onyx's

medium Onyx's play- low/medium/high Onyx's

low Onyx's play-low/medium Onyx's & high diamonds

high diamonds play-low onyxs & high\med diamonds

Medium diamonds play- low/ medium/ high diamonds
ect...
Because there may not always be a large amount of population in that given playlist at every given hour of the day. This means that after a certain amount of time the game will find you a match in an expanded pool of skill. Otherwise you simply wouldn't find a game. The game also tries to keep the collective teams CSR even, and for a partied team I think at the moment boosts the opposing teams CSR slightly to compensate their lack of communication. I get what you're trying to say but for someone like me who lives in Australia I have to almost always search expanded and sometimes you get those matches. I'd rather play than wait forever though.

Also just to add I believe that the matchmaking system tries to keep it as close as possible, lately you might be confused with match-ups because of inflated CSR, you are probably still playing against someone with the same MMR as you.
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I'm sure some work went into "truskill2" because it shows - effectively only SOME things are noticable. After playing a few thousand games with this "new" and "improved" and "encouraging" csr system, I am left more frustrated than ever, as I am matching fairly more often only to expect an eventual, inescapable loss because the system still must have some line of code for, what I'm calling, a "FORCIBLE LOSS." This was the crux of all previous gripes; when that first defeat occurs after a victory it comes against a team that is unfairly better, resulting in a planned defeat.

A NEW PROBLEM: for the past few days I have not advanced in CSR rank, only decreased, which is not unusual until you realize that my rank only changes when I lose. When I win (60+ % winning by the way in slayer) my CSR does NOT change. When I lose it decreases in its typical, now comical, amount. BUT THERE IS MORE. As far as I know, this is occurring only to me, which leads me down a different road of dispair.

On a different note, 343 / Microsoft should consider not being so gullible when accepting criticism from the typical, less-than-analytical, YouTube pop personality. It's like listening to the baby that cries the most. Nor should they be head-over-heels for the great pro to rule them all. It's like implementing a suggestion to raise the basketball hoop height from the tallest of basketball players - it is most likely to help the tallest players. Instead, seek out people that are not "yes-men" and have jobs and can't spend time rehearsing what they will say on YouTube, which is usually simple reactionary criticism or unnecessary extolling.
Anyhow, I don't think that it's working as supposed.

If someone has higher MMR than CSR, then why are those players still in for example P6-D2? They are basically stuck there without any help of getting up because of the way this game is matching them. I know many people that are really good players but stuck in low rankings just because they don't have a team, and the first CSR ranking after Qualification matches was miscalculated.

Thats why I was wondering for myself when I was D1-4. If you're matching me with Sweats, give me Sweat rank then. But by time I got to Onyx and now moving up and down.

But the funny situation is FFA. I played 10 matches, won 5 of them and got D3. Okay I played that for the first time, but I won many Onyxes for example and I saw many Onyxes with 10% Win/Loss ratio after Qualifications. I honestly thought I will be ranked at least 1500 Onyx but nope. And yes, even met champion with like 2-3 wins top, the same KDA in FFA like mine.
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This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
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I'm sure some work went into "truskill2" because it shows - effectively only SOME things are noticable. After playing a few thousand games with this "new" and "improved" and "encouraging" csr system, I am left more frustrated than ever, as I am matching fairly more often only to expect an eventual, inescapable loss because the system still must have some line of code for, what I'm calling, a "FORCIBLE LOSS." This was the crux of all previous gripes; when that first defeat occurs after a victory it comes against a team that is unfairly better, resulting in a planned defeat.

A NEW PROBLEM: for the past few days I have not advanced in CSR rank, only decreased, which is not unusual until you realize that my rank only changes when I lose. When I win (60+ % winning by the way in slayer) my CSR does NOT change. When I lose it decreases in its typical, now comical, amount. BUT THERE IS MORE. As far as I know, this is occurring only to me, which leads me down a different road of dispair.

On a different note, 343 / Microsoft should consider not being so gullible when accepting criticism from the typical, less-than-analytical, YouTube pop personality. It's like listening to the baby that cries the most. Nor should they be head-over-heels for the great pro to rule them all. It's like implementing a suggestion to raise the basketball hoop height from the tallest of basketball players - it is most likely to help the tallest players. Instead, seek out people that are not "yes-men" and have jobs and can't spend time rehearsing what they will say on YouTube, which is usually simple reactionary criticism or unnecessary extolling.
I feel you this system is designed for you to fail now ok I get the boosting smurfs and what not. And the bad smurfs but at the start I thought the new system was based on individual performance more so the ranking games because when the new season started I had my main account and my gamertag clan account to use I’m not one to really smurf and boost or smurf in general but I knew that when Some of my friends who don’t play halo like that wanted to play I mean the highest one is plat 2 and I would try to carry him to diamond from time to time but it was the ranking in games and as I was losing every game I was also carrying every game going like anywhere from 15-20 and 2-5 then the ranking in came me for sure I thought I would get a gold or low plat like the game always gives me and it gave me onyx 1620 something like that and I was like of happy that it decided to put me around my skill for the first time but a little later I played the games on my main account and ranked in diamond 4 and I had a team again because I said to my self I will rank in as a team because I mainly solo que. As the season went on I didn’t play on my other account and only on my main I got to like onyx 1690 in slayer when I started to notice the crap this game will pulling but I didn’t witness it first hand I was in a full party with some champs in different thing playing some hcs but I’m only onyx in a few things and a allow onyx player came into party said I’m only going down but when I win I go up by one at first I thought it was just his game later when I played slayer again dropped from like 1690 to around 1625 or something said I’m never playing slayer on my main till this problem is fixed
.

I understand boosting and what not but I liked how the game had it before this little update if you didn’t work as hard or you played bad that game or is always getting carried you got little to no csr while the ones who did the most slayer and worked their buts off it rewarded them now I’m still carrying but I’m seeing no results

i havent noticed the 1 csr gain until about 3 or 4 days ago. Of posting and I can tell you for sure I’m not liking it at all

anther note I have seen a good amount of champs if you give them decent players are just beasts in slayer get stuck at diamond 5 or 6ornlow onyx until they get some decent players 343 and I know for a fact I’m not better than them

and if the matches are supposed to be almost fair how am I supposed to be expected to win a match it doesn’t make sense it should be a really close match of skill but when I win I gain nothing I thought that whatvthe said to me on another post
A NEW PROBLEM: for the past few days I have not advanced in CSR rank, only decreased, which is not unusual until you realize that my rank only changes when I lose. When I win (60+ % winning by the way in slayer) my CSR does NOT change. When I lose it decreases in its typical, now comical, amount. BUT THERE IS MORE. As far as I know, this is occurring only to me, which leads me down a different road of dispair.
This has been addressed in the first post
On a different note, 343 / Microsoft should consider not being so gullible when accepting criticism from the typical, less-than-analytical, YouTube pop personality. It's like listening to the baby that cries the most. Nor should they be head-over-heels for the great pro to rule them all. It's like implementing a suggestion to raise the basketball hoop height from the tallest of basketball players - it is most likely to help the tallest players. Instead, seek out people that are not "yes-men" and have jobs and can't spend time rehearsing what they will say on YouTube, which is usually simple reactionary criticism or unnecessary extolling.
This isn't what they are doing and not why Truskill2 was implemented. It was implemented becuase it's a much more accurate and faster system for predicting / determining player skill.
A couple quick questions for you Josh:
1. Do I deserve to be a champion in Doubles?
2. Furthermore, what is the point of me playing the game when I win 1 game and only go up 1 CSR? When I lose 1 game I go down 15 CSR?

I am playing to just get demoted... Ruins the game for me. Essentially it is a backward grind. I personally believe you guys should have done another rank reset with the release of the divergence of CSR and MMR. Sadly my time towards Halo will decrease because why would I play if I am going to grind just to go backward?
Thanks for your input/time.
I would like to see the previous ranking system re-implemented. In my opinion , it was a much better system. The current system makes winning seems futile with going up 1 CSR for a win , and dropping 15 for a loss . I have an MLG player on my friend list who also is stuck in this situation I’ve noticed he only goes up 1 point for a win as well in slayer as an upper level onyx player . If he’s not good enough to hold rank, then who is ?
i would like you to please consider changing back to the old ranking system it was such a good system and made grinding and playing halo 5 enjoyable .
A couple quick questions for you Josh:
1. Do I deserve to be a champion in Doubles?
2. Furthermore, what is the point of me playing the game when I win 1 game and only go up 1 CSR? When I lose 1 game I go down 15 CSR?

I am playing to just get demoted... Ruins the game for me. Essentially it is a backward grind. I personally believe you guys should have done another rank reset with the release of the divergence of CSR and MMR. Sadly my time towards Halo will decrease because why would I play if I am going to grind just to go backward?
Thanks for your input/time.
On the matter of question 2: The point, aside from playing for the sake of playing, is to have your public rank be an accurate reflection of your skill. If you don't go up when you win but do go down when you lose, it means your CSR is too high. So while you may like that because it makes you seem better, it's not really true. So it comes down to what you want out of your CSR: for it to be accurate or for it to be inflated. If your biggest concern is having as high a CSR as possible to impress others, then by all means, stop playing now. Your CSR this season will not go up until your MMR and CSR match. Next season things will start off corrected, so your CSR next season should never get inflated, which means next season you can expect it not to be as high as it is now anyway. If you like playing the game and want your CSR to correctly reflect your skill, then keep playing this season; eventually your CSR will match your MMR, and you'll know when you start gaining normal amounts of CSR for wins again.

They considered ending the season but decided it was too early in the season to do so (also not everyone was affected by the CSR problem). So they opted for this forcible CSR correction instead to stop the inflation from getting worse.
I would like to see the previous ranking system re-implemented. In my opinion , it was a much better system. The current system makes winning seems futile with going up 1 CSR for a win , and dropping 15 for a loss . I have an MLG player on my friend list who also is stuck in this situation I’ve noticed he only goes up 1 point for a win as well in slayer as an upper level onyx player . If he’s not good enough to hold rank, then who is ?
i would like you to please consider changing back to the old ranking system it was such a good system and made grinding and playing halo 5 enjoyable .
The problem with the ranks from the old system is that for some people, they were wrong (either too high or too low). In your friend's case, his public rank is too high compared to his true skill. So if you like for people to have ranks that don't accurately represent their skill, then go ahead and continue to call for a return to the previous system.

Ever consider the idea that how good you feel you or your friend are may not be as good as you actually are? If your friend is only gaining +1 CSR for a win in slayer where his rank is high Onyx, then that means his true skill is not high Onyx. Just because he's "MLG" doesn't mean he's automatically a high Onyx player.
Chimera30 wrote:
A couple quick questions for you Josh:
1. Do I deserve to be a champion in Doubles?
2. Furthermore, what is the point of me playing the game when I win 1 game and only go up 1 CSR? When I lose 1 game I go down 15 CSR?

I am playing to just get demoted... Ruins the game for me. Essentially it is a backward grind. I personally believe you guys should have done another rank reset with the release of the divergence of CSR and MMR. Sadly my time towards Halo will decrease because why would I play if I am going to grind just to go backward?
Thanks for your input/time.
On the matter of question 2: The point, aside from playing for the sake of playing, is to have your public rank be an accurate reflection of your skill. If you don't go up when you win but do go down when you lose, it means your CSR is too high. So while you may like that because it makes you seem better, it's not really true. So it comes down to what you want out of your CSR: for it to be accurate or for it to be inflated. If your biggest concern is having as high a CSR as possible to impress others, then by all means, stop playing now. Your CSR this season will not go up until your MMR and CSR match. Next season things will start off corrected, so your CSR next season should never get inflated, which means next season you can expect it not to be as high as it is now anyway. If you like playing the game and want your CSR to correctly reflect your skill, then keep playing this season; eventually your CSR will match your MMR, and you'll know when you start gaining normal amounts of CSR for wins again.

They considered ending the season but decided it was too early in the season to do so. So they opted for this forcible CSR correction instead to stop the inflation from getting worse.
I would like to see the previous ranking system re-implemented. In my opinion , it was a much better system. The current system makes winning seems futile with going up 1 CSR for a win , and dropping 15 for a loss . I have an MLG player on my friend list who also is stuck in this situation I’ve noticed he only goes up 1 point for a win as well in slayer as an upper level onyx player . If he’s not good enough to hold rank, then who is ?
i would like you to please consider changing back to the old ranking system it was such a good system and made grinding and playing halo 5 enjoyable .
The problem with the ranks from the old system is that for some people, they were wrong (either too high or too low). In your friend's case, his public rank is too high compared to his true skill. So if you like for people to have ranks that don't accurately represent their skill, then go ahead and continue to call for a return to the previous system.

Ever consider the idea that how good you feel you or your friend are may not be as good as you actually are? If your friend is only gaining +1 CSR for a win in slayer where his rank is high Onyx, then that means his true skill is not high Onyx. Just because he's "MLG" doesn't mean he's automatically a high Onyx player.
Thanks for your response . I just really think the previous system awarded team play and winning which I really enjoyed and what I think halo 5 should be about .You could get a team of supposed underdogs that happen to play well together that take out a team of champs and then get rewarded for the win even if “they aren’t supposed to be that good “ based on MMR. In the current system you only get 1 point no matter if you play a team of champs and win or a team of bronzes.

My friend that is MLG has A kda of 9 in slayer and a 90% win rate and still only goes up 1 point for a win I just don’t understand how this is possible ? Those are pretty awesome stats from a personal and team perspective . What stats would said person require to rank up ? What exact variables are used to calculate MMR? Is it possible there is a bug in the ranking system causing this issue ?
Thanks for your response . I just really think the previous system awarded team play and winning which I really enjoyed and what I think halo 5 should be about .You could get a team of supposed underdogs that happen to play well together that take out a team of champs and then get rewarded for the win even if “they aren’t supposed to be that good “ based on MMR. In the current system you only get 1 point no matter if you play a team of champs and win or a team of bronzes.

My friend that is MLG has A kda of 9 in slayer and a 90% win rate and still only goes up 1 point for a win I just don’t understand how this is possible ? Those are pretty awesome stats from a personal and team perspective . What stats would said person require to rank up ? What exact variables are used to calculate MMR? Is it possible there is a bug in the ranking system causing this issue ?
The new skill system still rewards team play and winning, despite what people may be saying otherwise. This "current system" for ranks is a temporary fix designed to correct a specific issue affecting some players. Not every player has this issue, but the players that do have this issue need to be corrected.

Some players can have CSR too high or too low from their actual skill. For instance, a smurf has a rank that's too low (at least for a few games). And someone who gets carried by playing with a team of better players can get ranked too high. Your "MLG friend" example could be this kind of person who was carried a bit to high ranks (not saying they did it purposefully). Having a super high KDA and win percent doesn't necessarily mean you should be ranked really high. If you are a Diamond and you mostly beat Platinums and Golds, you can get high stats but it doesn't mean you deserve to go up in skill or rank. Trueskill2 determines your skill based on how much you win, who you kill and how much, and who you die to and how much. Considering that Trueskill2 has been around since Gears of War 4 and was only recently implemented into Halo 5, I'd say they vetted the system pretty well before adding it in, so the possibility of it being bugged is low.
This has finally explained a couple of things my team has been wondering about.

We have had roughly a 90 percent win rate this season, are ranked Onyx 2000+, and routinely get matched up against teams of mostly golds/platinums when we play together. It wouldn't be unfair to say we only get one close/challenging game out of every seven. If we substitute one of the members of our very cohesive team for one of our other friends that is very good (champion in almost every playlist), but is a terrible team player (no callouts, running around by himself, still going very positive every game), we suddenly match only high onyx/champions.

So the system clearly thinks thought my cohesive team had inflated CSR before the "rank lock". But when we play together, we spend most of our time absolutely destroying the platinum teams we get matched up with 95 percent of the time the same way that the champion teams destroy us. Whereas last season we would get the same thing, but occasionally we'd get absolutely devastated by a full team of champions (something that doesn't happen this season because we don't match them).

I can say with certainty getting devastated by a team of champions is no fun for us, so I imagine getting absolutely destroyed by our team, inflated CSR or not, is not fun for the teams of platinums and golds we get matched up with because of the MMR system. And I can say with some certainty TS2 is definitely not accounting for the sorts of teamwork my team plays with if it has been matching us with golds/platinums all season, we blow out those teams, and our MMR does not increase.

I'd actually love to see a graph of my MMR for this season to see if I can make any sense of it.
Crqwe wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
As it is right now, we see csr inflation. Instead of grinding upwards in rank, we are seeing players going downwards. What you believe to remedy the inflation (even though it is) ends up discouraging players from even getting on halo altogether.
Players not going up but going down in CSR have inflated CSRs, meaning their CSRs are not accurate representations of their skills. So if they don't want to get on, it means they'd rather keep their fake skill over their true skill, because it makes them seem better than they are to everyone else. So what you're saying is that people care more about how other players think of them than actually playing the game itself.

Give people a system where everyone can get the rank they want and they complain it's meaningless. Give them a system that shows their true skill and they complain because they hate to be told they're not as good as they'd hoped they are. It's a lose-lose scenario.
Well, what about all of the other players who are high-level players and their ranks actually do accurately represent their skills but now with this new system we can't even play because of the one csr gain after every win? I literally ran into two High Onyx and Champ teams last night and we all agreed on one thing. There's no point in grinding the game right now because we gain nothing out of it. Currently, I am an Onyx 1828 in Slayer and I can't even grind for champ anymore because the new system believes I am not a good enough player to hold the rank... If I am beating some of the top guys in the playlists, and your system apparently thinks that their ranks don't accurately represent them either who am I suppose to beat to prove that my rank is accurate? This new system is only hurting the population even more and if beating the top guys doesn't prove anything then I don't know what else to do with a system like this.
Same thing here in breakout. Go against higher tier onyx players and only gain 1 per win. This new system needs to change ASAP
To me, now that I know this, I feel like I need to change my play style. For example my one friend is much better with the sniper than I am and generally I give it to him if I get it because he's better with it and the chances of us getting more kills goes up (which ultimately gives us a better chance to win) and when he has it I generally watch his back and/or sides so he can focus on sniping and I try to finish players off. If you looked at a lot of my games where he's doing this I am almost consistently always last on the team in every stat (mainly because a lot of players won't do it and it can be a boring roll) but lots of the time my team wins because of what I'm doing. If I didn't do that he couldn't snipe as much as he does. Now I feel like I shouldn't bother doing this because it's just hurting me personally and personal stats seem to matter now almost as much as the wins and losses. Again, If this was more widely known I wonder how many other people would consider doing the same and or be pissed off about this.
Because I'm curious, who is this friend?
Why? Have we played against you? LoL ;)

Well, I don't know if I should give his gamertag without asking him, but I will ask him and he's if cool with it, I'll PM you bud :) Also, if you like Team Slayer and play it and are interested in playing with us, let me know bro.
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