Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 21

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 33
  4. 34
  5. 35
  6. 36
  7. 37
  8. ...
  9. 40
Last night my fireteam demolished all teams we played in slayer by over 30 points for at least 15 games . Team of onyx against matches of low to mid diamonds .
the way I think and see this as MMR system calls my team inflated and matches us with low diamond . System is flawed man games weren’t even fun or competitive with all this MMR garbagio; our team is way better than the way MMR is reading us fix matchmaking please
Exactly what Ive been saying
Wahadinho wrote:
@eLantern

You think you are so smart right?

Would you read the post and understand it a whole, it would be much clearer to you? But yeah, take sentences out of the context and answer on every word I write.

You're as fun as H5 Matchmaking.
Even considering your post as a whole, eLantern's responses are still valid. Just because you don't like the responses or how it is written or for whatever other reason doesn't give you the right to insult another person's intelligence.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Well what a joke this is, nothing has changed if anything it’s unfairly ranking platinums and diamonds against high onyx and champions. The true skill system does not work because the game has given some players a high mmr and some a low mmr when they are not deserving of either. From the past 2 weeks that I have been playing it has become increasingly frustrating, winning 4 or 5 games in a row and not moving up but lose one and go down. If the true skill system works and we are supposed to be playing against similar skilled players then shouldn't we go up for a win and down for a loss ? The game has falsely given players csr ranks they don’t deserve but also falsely given players mmr they don’t deserve aswell. In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward. Why do you think h3 is regarded as one of the best yet most simple rank systems. It was because there wasn’t 10 games you had to play for a random rank it was because the searching system would only find players around your skill level and because to actually improve your skill level or rank you had to win games against players who had got to a higher skill level. This is rediculous the idea of a csr and an mmr, your saying right now players have inflated mmr or csr so you need to average these levels out to get a more acurate rank of a players true skill. Its simple choose one or the other and have it displayed. Players like to see their rank they like to achieve a higher rank and this rank shown gives a player a sense of accomplishment and also a feeling that they have improved by ranking up. All you have done here is take away the reason we all play ranked which is for our shiny csr emblem. More and more players have become increasingly frustrated with this change. No body cares if we are a little bit better than the guy 2 ranks higher than us are because we know we will make it past them anyway. It’s simple if you win you should rank up and if you lose you should go down. If you want to keep it this way then reduce the amount of points it will take to fill the bar to rank up. At the moment it is completely unfair. Winning is still winning and we should be rewarded for that and not punished for the one loss In 8 games. That’s just nonsense!!!
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Yes iv heard this many time but there are differences, firstly the fact that you have to play 10 to be ranked and secondly that you have to fill a bar to progress to the next rank. This means you need 3 or 4 wins to progress one rank where in halo 3 you did not have the bar to fill. It just depended on the game you played.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Yes iv heard this many time but there are differences, firstly the fact that you have to play 10 to be ranked and secondly that you have to fill a bar to progress to the next rank. This means you need 3 or 4 wins to progress one rank where in halo 3 you did not have the bar to fill. It just depended on the game you played.
I would jump up & down if 3-4 wins would move me up in rank lol. I feel stuck in the mud with the current system.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Yes iv heard this many time but there are differences, firstly the fact that you have to play 10 to be ranked and secondly that you have to fill a bar to progress to the next rank. This means you need 3 or 4 wins to progress one rank where in halo 3 you did not have the bar to fill. It just depended on the game you played.
I would jump up & down if 3-4 wins would move me up in rank lol. I feel stuck in the mud with the current system.
I do aswell it seems like I can’t go up and I can’t go down at the moment, to add to it I’m coming up against low ranks on my team and against, i just played a game at diamond 4 and versed a whole team of diamonds and my team was a plat 2 a plat 4 and a gold 6, obviously we lost and I went down yet I win a game like that and I won’t move
Can you please look at my past games at explain to me why I only go up 1 CSR in a party of onyx’s and we are matching agains onyx players? What has happened recently it wasn’t like this at the beginning of this season? Loosing Pop quickly...please reset ranks and resolve this frustrating issue
eLantern wrote:
As Chimera30 theorizes, and I happen to agree with, I think many players within that skill range are simply waiting for the seasonal roll to come along because they don't want to go through that process of self-correcting their CSRs. They'd rather hold onto their inflated CSRs.
We need to be careful of how we describe this. It is admittedly difficult to do so when you have a bunch of people coming in here screaming.

Yes, the +1/-15 plan is meant to address CSR>MMR. But I think there is a lot of merit in the argument that MMR is too low at this end of the spectrum. The cover all statement Menke has been using is "those Champs are actually diamond, it's a fair match." It never really addresses the cause. And there have been a couple instances where, if you look at the game history, he's talking about opponents with >90% win rates and ~2.0k/d's.

It does raise questions:Why is only one team's CSR dramatically inflated using the current model in each of these cases?
Is TS2 really meant to place players with 80-90% win rates into Diamond? And if yes, is that really an effective measure of skill/progression? (IMO, absolutely not and it will cause far more problems than it could possibly solve)

How do you realistically improve your rank in that window?

The answer will most likely end up being "you don't," even after the ranks get reset and MMR=CSR. We have not had a good look under the hood see see how TS2 is implemented and how well it performs on the high end of the curve. The best data set I have seen is Juror Number 8's MMR plots, posted separately in this thread.

Doubles (1800 CSR, falling due to "inflation", 81% win rate):
Doubles plot//
https://i.imgur.com/xoX0nux.png//

FFA (currently 1574 CSR, past seasons have ranged from Diamond 6 to Onyx 2550):
FFA plot//
https://i.imgur.com/QuV7cwS.png//

FFA does not suffer from much inflation. There are not outside influences from things like party size. For those of us not working at 343, it is probably the best baseline we can pull. In this case, it is a steady and firm Onyx MMR ranking (>2.0).

For Doubles, Juror's MMR is trending down since the beginning of the season. His MMR does not hit onyx. TS2 believes he is a Diamond doubles player. Approx. top 10% of the population, give or take a few percent. This is in spite of his 81% win rate. We know from his mostly unfiltered FFA ranking that he is a very good player. If he is getting "carried," it is not a significant amount. He is averaging 12 kills/game, further evidence he is not getting carried.

The last bolded part is super important, particularly for those who are saying "wait until the next rank reset." Juror has a 81% win rate in a very competitive playlist. *His MMR is trending down.*He is not going to improve his rank next season, assuming nothing else changes. That cannot possibly be how TS2 is intended to function.

The FFA to doubles comparison is not 100% apples to apples. But it is cases like Juror's that suggest TS2 is not performing well for team games in onyx. There are others examples that have been shown, but this is the cleanest data set I have seen.
stckrboy wrote:
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
So after your placement matches you get diamond 1-3 (45-50). Would I moving up or down now as I did in H3? Or has this now changed with TS2, MMR, CSR?

Thanks
This new system makes absolutely no sense. My skill and rank shouldn't be decided by how good your broken system thinks I am. Me going up only +1 and going down -15 just because my MMR is messed up by me messing around on social is absolutely unacceptable. This is genuinely insulting.
stckrboy wrote:
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
So after your placement matches you get diamond 1-3 (45-50). Would I moving up or down now as I did in H3? Or has this now changed with TS2, MMR, CSR?

Thanks
No
stckrboy wrote:
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
So after your placement matches you get diamond 1-3 (45-50). Would I moving up or down now as I did in H3? Or has this now changed with TS2, MMR, CSR?

Thanks
No
No as is I don't move up as I did in H3, or no things have not changed with T2S, MMR, CSR??? Feel free to elaborate
ZaedynFel wrote:
As I stated in a previous post, maybe the solution is you have an individual skill ranking and a group skill ranking. The more I think about it the more I feel like this has to be a thing in Halo 6. I know nothing would be implemented in Halo 5 but it's something to consider in the future I'd say.
This is something we have talked a lot about for sure. In Halo 5, we're at this compromise because we don't have a "Team" leaderboard or Rank. So we give a pretty accurate (in terms of predicting your win percents) representation of how well you'd contribute a team, but we don't know for sure without tracking your teams separatley.

If we did, then the Team ranks would only go off Win / Loss EVEN in TrueSkill2 because if you sum up the MMR changes of the losing Team, it's always negative in TrueSkill2. This would result in what you are asking for.

I think this is a more hard-core feature for sure, but I agree it would be more presitigious from a Ranks POV.
Well, I'm definitely glad this has been looked into, discussed and consider. I understand it won't be in halo 5, but hopefully something like this is in halo 6. When I play a team playlist, I think that's all it should be based off of, wins/losses, but that's me. I would definitely welcome his more hard core feature as you put it for sure and I think a good chunk of people would as well.

For me team games, sports, anything team... has always been "win as a team, lose as a team" nothing else matters.
stckrboy wrote:
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
So after your placement matches you get diamond 1-3 (45-50). Would I moving up or down now as I did in H3? Or has this now changed with TS2, MMR, CSR?

Thanks
No
No as is I don't move up as I did in H3, or no things have not changed with T2S, MMR, CSR??? Feel free to elaborate
mmr>csr gain +15 per win -1 per loss or csr>mmr gain +1 per win -15. Look my history for references
@ZaedynFyl Could i ask for my MMR in ranked/social playlists if that's not asking too much
stckrboy wrote:
In my opinion the whole 10 games to rank system does not work. If everyone started at bronze one and had to work there way up you would see a much fairer system as players unable to climb higher would be stuck in there skill range or csr rank and would need to improve in skill to win and continue to move forward
Starting everyone off at Bronze doesn't make a fairer system, it means that lower level players and highly skilled players will start of playing each other. Highly skilled players will coast their first few games while lower skilled players will get stomped which won't be enjoyable. The current system is extremely fast at predicting skill levels of players, so everyone starts off with fairer matches much quicker.
I did love the simplicity of H3 rankings, i never had issues with it. You knew exactly what you were getting in to. Win you go up, lose go down. Perfect.

Although somehwere in these forums someone said they use the same algorythms for the H5 ranks as they did in H3..... But seems doubtful
Under the hood Halo 5 uses the same code as Halo 3
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
So after your placement matches you get diamond 1-3 (45-50). Would I moving up or down now as I did in H3? Or has this now changed with TS2, MMR, CSR?

Thanks
No
No as is I don't move up as I did in H3, or no things have not changed with T2S, MMR, CSR??? Feel free to elaborate
mmr>csr gain +15 per win -1 per loss or csr>mmr gain +1 per win -15. Look my history for references
So its not only about winning anymore to move up, but you have to win + out perform your csr?
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 33
  4. 34
  5. 35
  6. 36
  7. 37
  8. ...
  9. 40