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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 21

OP ZaedynFel

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Sturbz wrote:
Theyre changing it again? How so? And whered you hear that?
It's in the first post of the thread and Dr Menke also mentioned they're doing a new season soon in a later post.
Sturbz wrote:
Sturbz wrote:
I still firmly believe the system is even more broken than the original. Win: don't rank up. Lose: rank down. Brilliant
I rank down constantly when i go double positive and more than pull my weight
It's a temporary thing. Next season, you won't have to worry about not getting your just
Sturbz wrote:
I still firmly believe the system is even more broken than the original. Win: don't rank up. Lose: rank down. Brilliant
I rank down constantly when i go double positive and more than pull my weight
It's a temporary thing. Next season, you won't have to worry about not getting your just due.
If that next season was right around the corner, that’d be swell
Theyre changing it again? How so? And whered you hear that?
I believe a mod posted they will reset sooner than later a few pages back or so. But no specific date
ZaedynFel wrote:
Can you tell me what’s my MMR on hcs?
Looks like high Diamond in objective, mid-Diamond in Slayer.

Me please??
Dr Menke, I have managed to grind 175 champ CSR, is my MMR champ in Free for all? How about Slayer?
Any updates on when the new season is rolling out? I’m just barely ranking up in anything despite having a good KD in these playlists, I play mostly slayer but that’s just a waste of time since I never go up on wins anymore, doubles and arena are appearing to be the same as well. Just want this to reset
The new system has been great for me and my Teammates in the win department...
However, we went 23 Wins, 5 Losses for the night. Had a Win streak of 14 in a row where i was positive K/D most games and did not move up one rank. For the end of the night i was down one Level with over all positive K/D.
Things that make you go Hmm..
My opinion is T2 should be reverted back to T1.

Second option, MMR needs be able to be visualized by the player to have the satisfaction of knowing (and seeing) they are ranking up or down. It strips the satisfaction of gameplay by having some obscure calculated value that the system tracks but the player can’t visualize.
Hey guys I played like 5 swat games and one like 4 of them I be diamond 3 but when down to platinum 6 because the ranking system is broken right now please fix this today I want to reach onyx thanks guys
Please refrain from posting multiple times in a row in the future. You can edit your posts to add information and respond to more than one person in a single post.
I dont understand how csr can get so inflated. If someone has a 90% win rate and tue skill 2 assesses that they arediamond, doesnt that just mean the original assessment was wrong? If they are truly a diamond and facing other diamonds shouldn't their win percentages be around 50%?

Also why are people getting placed into radically different skill levels on various smurfs. If the system is accurate shouldn't the same player place into the same place every time?
^^
I9007 wrote:
I dont understand how csr can get so inflated. If someone has a 90% win rate and tue skill 2 assesses that they arediamond, doesnt that just mean the original assessment was wrong? If they are truly a diamond and facing other diamonds shouldn't their win percentages be around 50%?

Also why are people getting placed into radically different skill levels on various smurfs. If the system is accurate shouldn't the same player place into the same place every time?
^^
same i have a smurf who is onyx (mmr and csr) in swat but this one is diamond 5 (mmr). the kda is the same
Just rest the season already its not that hard or your just going to keep losing players every day
Just rest the season already its not that hard or your just going to keep losing players every day
There's probably quite a bit more to doing this than just flipping a switch. As soon as they are ready to reset they will let us know
Just rest the season already its not that hard or your just going to keep losing players every day
Actually, HCS has had the biggest increase vs. all playlists ever since the change, so we're not seeing a daily loss in players.
The new system has been great for me and my Teammates in the win department...
However, we went 23 Wins, 5 Losses for the night. Had a Win streak of 14 in a row where i was positive K/D most games and did not move up one rank. For the end of the night i was down one Level with over all positive K/D.
Things that make you go Hmm..
It's not about positive win% or positive KD, it's about beating expectations. If you keep playing as predicted, your skill hasn't changed.
I9007 wrote:
I dont understand how csr can get so inflated. If someone has a 90% win rate and tue skill 2 assesses that they arediamond, doesnt that just mean the original assessment was wrong? If they are truly a diamond and facing other diamonds shouldn't their win percentages be around 50%?

Also why are people getting placed into radically different skill levels on various smurfs. If the system is accurate shouldn't the same player place into the same place every time?
^^
same i have a smurf who is onyx (mmr and csr) in swat but this one is diamond 5 (mmr). the kda is the same
I've hand checked many smurf to smurf comparisons and almost without exception they land on nearly the same MMR after a few games.

The exceptions have been cases where very few games were played and the player absolutely crushed it. For example, one player, on his main, was averaging 12 kills per game vs. Diamond. His smurf was 20+ per game also vs. Diamond. When you have that huge of the a difference, the system notices.

By the way, the definition of "huge" is different for every game mode. 10 kills more per game in a Slayer mode is more surprising than in an objective mode.
My opinion is T2 should be reverted back to T1.
We would never do this. T2 is significantly more accurate, match to match, in knowing who will win, and therefore the skill ratings it gives are significantly more accurate.

But you may be confusing several different pieces between the skill system, the ranking system (CSR), and the matchmaking.

The ranking system has had a bump or two this season because of inflation, but with the fix now more accurately communicates to players their actual skill than any other system we've had, or any other system I've seen in any game to be honest --- and I've worked directly or indirectly with pretty much all the top ones there are.

Keep in mind we are not trying to help people grind their way up. That's not what the Ranks are for. They are meant to be as honest as possible about your actual skill. Otherwise they become meaningless. No one will care of you're Onyx if all it takes to get there is a few more games.
TraadeMerK wrote:
Dr Menke, I have managed to grind 175 champ CSR, is my MMR champ in Free for all? How about Slayer?
In FFA, your MMR and CSR are almost exactly the same.

In Slayer they are pretty close. Your CSR is a little below your MMR so it will go up a little more.
@Josh:

f077c259-eafd-4f4f-af95-072b8489e91c
242678af-abe9-4ef3-b005-d0b080b9af84

What were the odds of winning these games? (And were they really Onyxes?)
1) 75/25 for the winner. I see one Onyx pre-match, but the top two in kills after the match were both Onyx.
2) Winner was favored at 58% before the quitter, 94% after. Quitting reduces chances both because you have less players, but also because it serves as a signal that the quitting player was not playing as well as usual, which hurts their team. I see one Onyx on the losing team pre-match, who dropped to Diamond, and a Diamond who became Onyx. So really only one Onyx player in that match.
Hey guys I played like 5 swat games and one like 4 of them I be diamond 3 but when down to platinum 6 because the ranking system is broken right now please fix this today I want to reach onyx thanks guys
You aren't playing like an Onyx player. An Onyx player wins most of their matches against Diamonds, you do not. They also average 16 kills per game against low Diamonds, you are averaging 9.

You are 50/50 right now against low Diamond, which usually would make you low Diamond, but you are also only averaging 9 kills per game. The average low Diamond player averages 11 kills per game vs. other low Diamonds. Therefore, it's likely that you are Plat, and not Diamond, so your CSR will keep dropping until it fixes itself. Yours is inflated.
Using my FFA as a baseline skill measurement makes sense. Like you said, I'm right around 1574, which is decent. In fact, the situation is a bit worse/more skewed than we originally thought, I'm realizing now that you've broken it down like this.

My FFA MMR is higher than my doubles MMR. That's a problem, because I can say with a high degree of confidence that, compared to others withing each respective playlist, I am MUCH better at Doubles.

This is a ballpark of course, but if I'm a top 3% FFA player, I'm probably a top 0.5% Doubles player. I'm simply much, much better at Doubles.

If I'm this good at doubles and my mmr is Diamond, the Champion threshold next season is going to have to be lowered to like Diamond 4, because there simply are not many players THAT much better than me - I can't imagine anyone being so much hetter than me that they'd be Onyx 1700 if I'm in Diamond at my level...

You unfortuantely can't compare CSRs between playlists because they are calibrated against everyone who has ever played that particular mode in that playlist. So if you have a higher (assuming non-inflated) CSR in FFA than Doubles, it could mean either you are better at FFA, OR it could mean that FFA in general has had more players in it, or worse players, etc. Which, in this case, is likely. FFA has the highest proportion of Onyx players.

You can compare raw MMRs, sort-of, though each game mode has a number that defines how much other game modes can be compared to it. So even there it's a little dodgy.

That said, I do believe there is something a bit off with Juror's skill. It's the first case where I didn't find a logical explanation (teammates that have carried them, lower kills than expected for that skill vs. opponent skills, etc.etc.). No system is perfect, of course, and this may be an exception. We're looking into a few rare cases like this, and have a working solution in prototype that maintains the accuracy we already have on normal cases, but also correctly captures the skills of players in this situation. It's not a widespread issue, and also doesn't affect most playlists / modes fortunately. 99.9% of cases where people have questions about their MMRs, etc., have been fine, but like any system, there are a few exceptions. In this case, we'll have a fix out for this in the near future.
Edit: scratch all that, Josh already addressed what I was going to ask. Thanks Josh!

Edit 2: I'm still interested to know how next season will combat inflation. I don't see how ranking people 200 points behind their MMR will prevent inflation after qualifying. E.g. you have a player qualify and then go on a hot winning streak that lasts several games while playing as expected or even underperforming according to Trueskill2. If CSR goes up for winning, won't that sort of player diverge their CSR from their MMR?
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