Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 21

OP ZaedynFel

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ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Can someone explain to me how I lose to 2 champs and as as onyx lose 40 CSR? I’m not too well versed and how this new TS2 system works it’s a lot of guessing rn
You can't lose more than 30 in a match, so 40 won't happen.

Those Champs probably are not actually Champs.

CSR is based on your current CSR vs. your opponents' MMR.

Though, like stated here, we are updating it to be based more directly on your own MMR instead.
It was around 30 then I’m still a little confused. So a champ doesn’t actually count as a champ as far as CSR is concerned?
Doesn't count as a champ as far as MMR is concerned (since it's a super accurate measure of their skill).

So MMR is the judge, CSR follows it around.
Then why were champs grinding during the beginning? Was it a bug or intended that way? I know a bunch of champs were ranked d4-6 this season and had to grind back to champ. It was kind of annoying. They won 10/10 placement matches and had a 6.0 overall kda for those 10 matches (they went up against champs as well) I was one of them for elimination facing champs etc had to grind. Was that intended since MMR is different than CSR and it should be smooth from here on out?
10/10 with 6.0 KDA is subpar compared to what MMR would count as a Champ, and the "Champs" they went up against were likely Diamonds in disguise.

With the fix, all of you will start Diamond and stay Diamond unless your MMRs actually get into Onyx.
I mean that’s subjective. If a true champ fights another true champ and gets a 10/10 6.0 that’s a legend. If he got that against plats then he’s a joke. I wouldn’t say all of them were diamonds in disguise though I knew a few of them. I just felt like I had a rough start idk. I got placed d5 and had to grind back to champ though I probably got knocked out since I took a break.
But if that’s the case I can’t wait for the next season
ZaedynFel I've been curious about this new ranking system. A few things seem out of the ordinary to me. I think I have somewhat improved over time but my improvements most likely do not reflect my current rank. Per example, I have been successful in grinding to ONYX 1616 from Diamond 5 in Slayer. Does my current rank match my actual MMR rating. Is my rank inflated? If so, what is my true rating?

P.S This forum has been very informative in regards to MM changes. Very nice.
Whats going on with the ranking system, you win games and you don' go up at all in rank, but you lose 1 and u go down?
Why am I losing 18 CSR for losses and gaining 1 CSR for wins?
Again, my team wins, I have just a positive kda, and I don't go up at all, is this some kind of glitch?
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this game is not worth grinding for players.... this is coming from someone who ranked in as Onyx or Champion in every playlist... For us high ranks there is no point to play because you automatically rank in as onyx/champ and don't really have to grind anymore....and for people who are lower ranked they are hard locked at diamond.... I Just played 10 games with my buddy Noisyboi here and we lost ONE GAME (When our 4th quit out) and he did not go up at all for any of the wins but did drop for the one loss....tell me why anyone would wanna waste their time grinding when you can't even rank up.... Pathetic. Rip Halo. I Hope Halo 6 gives more incentive to grind for all skill levels.
Before people start going for pitchforks & torches about suddenly not gaining CSR upon a win, take a look at the first post in the thread:
Quote:
To reduce the confusion, we will be rolling out a change in the coming weeks that will keep CSR more in sync with MMR. A player who with CSR above their MMR will not gain points on a win and will lose a small number of points on a loss. On the other hand, players with CSR below their MMR will not lose points on a loss and will gain a decent amount of points on a win. Players will see their CSR converge to their MMRs over the course of several matches.
What if this is the change Dr. Menke was talking about? Maybe you people who are gaining 1 CSR per win and still losing 15-20 upon losses have inflated CSR, so the system is simply converging your CSR to your MMR.

Also recall that he said this:
Quote:
That's not a skill system though, that's a grind / XP system and makes Ranks meaningless. If you want that, then grind 152.

The Ranks are supposed to be a measure of skill, not a measure of how many games you have played. We don't want worse players ranking higher just because they played more. That's not a skill-based system.
It seems that Josh's idea of CSR is such that you shouldn't be able to "grind" to Champ, and that you should only be rated Champ if your skill reflects that.
TheLaw2u wrote:
ZaedynFel I've been curious about this new ranking system. A few things seem out of the ordinary to me. I think I have somewhat improved over time but my improvements most likely do not reflect my current rank. Per example, I have been successful in grinding to ONYX 1616 from Diamond 5 in Slayer. Does my current rank match my actual MMR rating. Is my rank inflated? If so, what is my true rating?P.S This forum has been very informative in regards to MM changes. Very nice.
Taking a look at your past 30 or so Slayer matches, it looks like you've been carried a fair bit when playing on teams. Additionally, when searching what appears to be solo, you're matching with and against mid-diamonds, so I'd imagine that's about roughly where your MMR is at.

I'll defer to Josh though to confirm or correct my guesses.
My team:
High onyx
Onyx
2 Diamon

Enemy team:
3 onyx
Diamond

Win 3 match and get 3 points...

Then lose against two champs and two onyx and i lost 20 points.Nice job, keep going.
TheLaw2u wrote:
ZaedynFel I've been curious about this new ranking system. A few things seem out of the ordinary to me. I think I have somewhat improved over time but my improvements most likely do not reflect my current rank. Per example, I have been successful in grinding to ONYX 1616 from Diamond 5 in Slayer. Does my current rank match my actual MMR rating. Is my rank inflated? If so, what is my true rating?P.S This forum has been very informative in regards to MM changes. Very nice.
I'm showing your Slayer MMR as Platinum, but your CSR as Onyx. This means that, yes, you have likely been carried. Your MMR has fluctuated as high as Onyx though, so you might just be tilting low.
this game is not worth grinding for players.... this is coming from someone who ranked in as Onyx or Champion in every playlist... For us high ranks there is no point to play because you automatically rank in as onyx/champ and don't really have to grind anymore....and for people who are lower ranked they are hard locked at diamond.... I Just played 10 games with my buddy Noisyboi here and we lost ONE GAME (When our 4th quit out) and he did not go up at all for any of the wins but did drop for the one loss....tell me why anyone would wanna waste their time grinding when you can't even rank up.... Pathetic. Rip Halo. I Hope Halo 6 gives more incentive to grind for all skill levels.
It's not a grind system, it's a skill one. If you don't get better, you don't go up in Rank.

The system knows he's Diamond and you're Onyx, and isn't going to try and lie about it. Otherwise the Ranks would lose meaning.
UK1V wrote:
Why am I losing 18 CSR for losses and gaining 1 CSR for wins?
Should be -15 and +1. Means your CSR is above your MMR and it's correcting over time.
The change I discussed is live now, a bit earlier than expected. I have updated the original post with the details.
ZaedynFel are you able to see right now what my true rank should be for all my current placements? I am feeling a savage result coming on but hey, this beats trying to grind for something that I'm not and suffering the whole -15 +1 scenarios. Thanks in advance!
Chimera30 wrote:
...
Quote:
That's not a skill system though, that's a grind / XP system and makes Ranks meaningless. If you want that, then grind 152.The Ranks are supposed to be a measure of skill, not a measure of how many games you have played. We don't want worse players ranking higher just because they played more. That's not a skill-based system.
It seems that Josh's idea of CSR is such that you shouldn't be able to "grind" to Champ, and that you should only be rated Champ if your skill reflects that.
There should still be some "grind" to Champ once next season starts since on rank reset the max CSR anyone can achieve will be Onyx 1700 after placement. Those with an MMR greater than that will have to grind matches to allow their CSR to catch-up to their above 1700 MMR.

Also, with everyone getting set back at least 200 CSR after placement from their MMR some grinding should be required by everyone in order to see their CSR converge with their MMR.
I was placed Platinum 4 in Slayer and flew through the ranks yesterday up to Diamond 3. I lost a few and was down to Diamond 2. Played 5 games over the past 2 hours, winning 4 of them and doing well (top score or 2nd) yet my rank did not move at all. I lost 1 close game and I was demoted to Diamond 1.

That hardly seems fair considering I'm performing well & pulling my weight, no? Not trying to bash the new system, just a little ticked considering yesterday I ranked fine and today it's a wall despite clear cut victories.
If I’m understanding correctly, next season I would place 200 CSR below my MMR. And then anytime I lose I only lose 1 CSR, and when I win I gain 15 CSR, up until my CSR matches my MMR. And then it reverses (gain 1 CSR for win, lose 15 for loss) once my CSR exceeds MMR. Is that accurate?

If the above is accurate, it sounds like your ranks aren’t based on W/L, and you can get rank locked? If MMR says you’re mid diamond but your CSR is low onyx, the only way to stay onyx is to win 15 games for every 1 loss, right? And when your CSR matches your mid diamond MMR, then you’re essentially rank locked? How does this incentivize players to keep playing?
I was placed Platinum 4 in Slayer and flew through the ranks yesterday up to Diamond 3. I lost a few and was down to Diamond 2. Played 5 games over the past 2 hours, winning 4 of them and doing well (top score or 2nd) yet my rank did not move at all. I lost 1 close game and I was demoted to Diamond 1.

That hardly seems fair considering I'm performing well & pulling my weight, no? Not trying to bash the new system, just a little ticked considering yesterday I ranked fine and today it's a wall despite clear cut victories.
It also depends on the quality of the opponents.

If you were pulling your weight (achieving equal or better than what TS2 expected from you K/D wise), but your team was favored to win (and by whatever percentage -- also matters) then your MMR/CSR impact might be only minimal on the positive side if you won because your team was expected to win and you performed accordingly or slightly better than expected.

If you were pulling your weight (achieving equal or better than what TS2 expected from you K/D wise), but your team was NOT favored to win (and by whatever percentage -- also matters) then your MMR/CSR impact should be noticeable if you won because your team overcame the odds and you performed accordingly or most likely better than expected.

If you were NOT pulling your weight (achieving equal or better than what TS2 expected from you K/D wise), but your team was favored to win (and by whatever percentage -- also matters) then your MMR/CSR impact will likely be very minimal and maybe your MMR won't change at all if you won because your team was expected to win and yet you didn't live up to the expectations the system predicted from you which means others on your team had to step-up to ensure the win.

If you were NOT pulling your weight (achieving equal or better than what TS2 expected from you K/D wise), but your team was NOT favored to win (and by whatever percentage -- also matters) then your MMR/CSR impact will still likely be fairly positive if you won because your team nevertheless managed to overcome the odds it faced; though, by not achieving what it expected from you means that others on your team likely saw more of a positive impact to their MMR/CSR than you did.

This principle pretty much works the same way when losing matches too, but as Josh has mentioned there are rare instances where if your team was predicted to lose and you greatly out-performed your individual K/D expectations your MMR will likely increase in a positive fashion while your CSR is barely affected in a negative fashion despite the team loss -- the thing is that your team's MMR won't go positive as a group -- so that means that other team members will be offset with a greater negative impact if you managed to gain a positive impact. Also, under this current season if your CSR is inflated than you'll likely only see +1 CSR for wins and -15 for losses no matter what your performances were until your MMR/CSR converge.
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