Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 21

OP ZaedynFel

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Okay, now I have to ask... what is my MMR in Slayer?
stckrboy wrote:
I've noticed when you guys do a update or something rather major the game plays awesome after. My guess is either the servers are being refreshed or maintenance is being done at the same time..
From memory, each match is spun up in its own instance in Azure, so you're getting a fresh server (so to speak) every time. Not the best explanation, but I've lost the post I had where Dr. Menke mentioned this a few months back
Thanks stckrboy for your reply. I think you are correct when you say one gets a fresh server so to speak in that sense. I notice with each new game played my gaming router shows new Ip addresses for each game. But from what ive researched the location usually is the same. When I said refresh the servers that was more meant as maintenance they do.. Things like possible clearing the cache or something on that order. Whatever the issue, its something very strange. The game becomes very sluggish and not very responsive and of course this slowing effect really is odd.. Thanks again!
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Wahadinho wrote:
Is something broken or this is ”the new way”.
It's explained in the OP. The game is trying to correct inflated or deflated CSR ranks.

-----

Josh, I've been noticing lately in BTB that there will usually only be one or two higher skilled people on each team and the rest will be around average or below average skill. Is that supposed to be happening cause it's reminding me of the previous skill system days before you tightened everything up. I'm not complaining, but it just feels kind of odd when I haven't had that for awhile.
The game is broken.

Well playing solo against onyxes and getting my rank like that is very, very,very inflated rank I must admit.

Also, a party of onyxes leaving now without any penalty after 10:4 in our favour and me getting 1 CSR because they left is really really fair, like REALLY fair.

It's not my problem that they are leaving.
Also, this started happening like two days ago, not 10 days ago when OT was made.
Wahadinho wrote:
Also, this started happening like two days ago, not 10 days ago when OT was made.
It was just updated today.
ZaedynFel wrote:
UK1V wrote:
ZaedynFel are you able to see right now what my true rank should be for all my current placements? I am feeling a savage result coming on but hey, this beats trying to grind for something that I'm not and suffering the whole -15 +1 scenarios. Thanks in advance!
All of your placements? Dang.

Breakout: Onyx
Slayer: Diamond
Team Arena: Almost Onyx, but not great at Oddball
FFA: Onyx
Elimination: Plat
Doubles: Diamond
HCS: Top Plat
SWAT: Diamond
Ok, thankyou so much for your above and beyond help these past couple of weeks, it's been greatly appreciated! I know I've asked a lot of you as well!

Yeah I'm not a fan of Oddball, maybe it's because I suck at it but in all honesty, that particular game mode isn't enjoyable. Each of my friends and I dread matching into it. That's probably the only game mode EVER that I have had negative feedback for.
So tonight I logged onto Halo and got my squad of four together to grind some Slayer and try and catch up to those champ players with 2100 csr. We got warmed up and were in good spirits. Then, game after game we realized that we were only getting one csr per game. We never lost, we kept beating teams of Diamonds and Onyx's and we ended up realizing there was no point to play anymore so we all logged off.

This shouldn't be a thing. We feel as if we are being discredited for putting time into playing this game. We can't help that the population is low and that as Onyx and Champ level players we'll sometimes gain csr off of platinums and diamonds. Trust me, we would love to match teams of Onyx's and Champs all of the time. But, by taking away the satisfaction of grinding for csr is demoralizing and honestly is going to make me, and others decide to not play the game as much.
So am I right on this basically everyone isn’t in their right rank? That I mainly solo que and will be anywhere from low to mid onyx and your telling me that’s not my rank because when I win I don’t move up. But the system matchmakes me play champs because we are actually on the same level but the team of champs are in a team which gives them a great advantage vs someone like me who mainly solo ques and although mostly likely I will carry now a days your telling me I may be a diamond even tho I can hold my own with some champs if I have decent teammates. But that the reason I always get bad teammates is because they are not in their right rank which I feel is true because diamonds are really easy to beat. But just recently I will search with at least one person and I can win consistently with help.

All all in all everyone is in wrong rank which causes for you to always get that one or two teammates who are really bad. But that hasn’t stopped the ranking system from pairing me with them even today I always get bad teammates I know how to stay with my team I know how to teamshoot I know how to move around the map but im no onyx player I don’t get it if I had a team I could consistently win almost every game. But I always get bad teammates and the system is failing from what I’m seeing the game is matchmaking me with low people and I’m know for sure I’m no scrub when you can drop on average 14 and 8 in ranked solo queing in slayer currently low onyx right now like around 1617 or something because I dropped like a rock for winning like 4 games then losing 1 so I quit playing. And warzone I average like 60-70 kills now something like that. But I’m not a high lv player I don’t get it yea I will quit a few matches here and there because I get really really dum teammates and I’m being punished for it.

A few questions
1) how does one increase MMR
2) does quitting games affect mmr
3) if champs are not champs and are actually on my level then why when I play one it’s like the sweatest game I have to try way harder than normal( I’m not taking away from champs who are actually beasts)
4) if people are in their wrong rank why do I always get bad teammates every game(it’s always that one guy who always die or just sits and watches me die doesn’t lend a hand and doesn’t keep control of certain points doesn’t keep track of when power up respawns)

343 I know for a fact half these kids are cheating the game but the true 2 system is good but today I have grinding and winning playing full teams and I lose a lot but when I win I get both. I’m all for change but I know this is some crap you pulling
I still dont understand why Halo isn't bringing back the High Skill 1-50 system. Is there a special reason for?
VinTaGeZz wrote:
I still dont understand why Halo isn't bringing back the High Skill 1-50 system. Is there a special reason for?
Halo 5 already uses the same system under the hood as Halo:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
stckrboy wrote:
VinTaGeZz wrote:
I still dont understand why Halo isn't bringing back the High Skill 1-50 system. Is there a special reason for?
Halo 5 already uses the same system under the hood as Halo:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%e2%80%93-march-27/7d7a1605-3aab-41ff-9950-95a9afbc29bc/posts?page=1#post2
Thank you

But I still dont like the H5 system.
I still like the numbers 1-50 more. It was such harder to get a 50 in H3. A diamond 3 in H5 is to easy. There is nothing to fight for. Every season a new reset. A 50 in H3 was a lifetime goal. You need to own it. And to deal with 50s which are better then other 50s.
I don't know how to describe. But the system in H5 feels wrong. Feels like cod. Playing for nothing.
VinTaGeZz wrote:
It was such harder to get a 50 in H3. A diamond 3 in H5 is to easy. There is nothing to fight for. Every season a new reset. A 50 in H3 was a lifetime goal. You need to own it. And to deal with 50s which are better then other 50s.
I don't know how to describe. But the system in H5 feels wrong. Feels like cod. Playing for nothing.
A 50 in Halo 3 was potentially people in today's champ level though, remember that those upper levels in Halo 3 were hidden. With Halo 5 you get to see exactly where you stand. I'd say there was plenty to fight for now, as much as there ever has been. Your CSR will reset every season, but your MMR doesn't - every season you need to prove that you deserve to keep the rank you have and if your skill improves so will your skill rank.

With TS2 it's honestly a better implementation and indication of skill than we've ever had in Halo. I mean you could go back to using numbers, but nothing would change other than the visual indication. It's still the same system
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Thorulfr wrote:
Some really crunchy changes here, addressing concerns I've had with the system for a long time, namely unbalanced matches and inaccurate CSR. Well done!

Can't wait to have all these improvements form day 1 with Halo 6.
I made a similar point about Halo 6's matchmaking to Joshua Menke on Twitter and he replied that H6 has not been confirmed 😂

That said, this article is excellent. It clearly and plainly explains the changes, why they became necessary, and how they will affect players.
If projections are accurate, and my first couple matches were any good sign, then this should be a fun season.

The next season should be the full-fattest Halo 5 experience to date, sans booming launch pop.

Free weekends and GamePass bring us new players still today and I never have too much trouble finding matches.
Most content has been released and bug-fixed. Forge and forged maps are in a great spot. Xbox One X has had good sales. Classic gameplay and PC support requests have been heard.

So not only do I have happy expectations for next season, but I'm feeling pretty good about 343i handling their next Halo title [that I truly hope we see at E3!].

Cheers to the changes! 🍻
Hi this is SG DAMAGE here and I would like to share some ideas on scoring system ! For many years halo has all ways had a kd system where kills are the main attraction but I had a idea where. A point system would promote team work and truly reflect skill level ! For instant a kill is 100 points a head shot is 20 points , a shot to the body is 10 points and anywhere below waist is 5 points ! So this way you can see who is scoring the most points and not just rewarding players with just an assist and a kill also you should score more point for playing and aggressive games style or even reversal etc I feel this would help with true rank and would also promote team work as that’s what halo is about . I would also like to touch on playlist what would be great is base the playlist on the number of players available to 1 person what I mean is if you are on your own you should be allowed to player slayer with other randoms on their own and not play against a stacked team ! this would would totally bring true rank into the game so if you have 4 on your team you will only be playing against another 4 so please 343 structure the playlist based on how many player are on your team this would help players who are trying to play slayer without a team

cheers sg damage
Desi br wrote:
This is not the place for this. There are wishlist threads in general discussion, user one of those please.

Also there's no need to announce yourself or sign off ad yourself, your GT is listed on every post you make.
bearhound wrote:
eLantern wrote:
bearhound wrote:
...
It seems as though you simply value a less accurate skill indicator (aka CSR) as long as it follows a basic principle of increasing; therefore, I get the sense that the quality of the skill-based matchmaking (SBMM) and in-turn match game-play are less important to you than being able to observe an inflated CSR.

Sorry, but I'd much rather have Halo's matchmaking system operate with the goal of trying it's best to not only accurately understand my skill, but also then match-make me as best as it can based on that more accurate understanding of my skill. Plus, for the playlists that provide me with a visual indicator of my skill (aka CSR) I'd like to know that what I'm seeing is more or less a fairly accurate indicator of my actual skill (aka "give it to me straight"). If it seems like I become rank locked after CSR converges with my MMR then I'm willing to accept that I'm, more or less, performing as expected and I'm happy that the match-maker is doing it's best to give me competitively fair matches -- at least based on playlist population circumstances.

Is the joy not in being able to play competitive matches while also getting an accurate understanding of where your skill truly exists?

Or is the joy for you only in seeing your CSR continue to rise via a basic win regardless of the real value of that win?
You say that it sounds like quality of SBMM and the gameplay are less important to me. However, I would counter that by pointing out that this change has absolutely no impact on who I play against. SBMM hasn’t changed. The quality of matches before and after this are unaffected, because we are matched based on MMR (correct me if I’m wrong). I want quality matches first and foremost. But the new system is the same as the old in that regard.

So the only thing that has changed is that once I’ve reached the level/rank the game thinks I am, my visible rank is essentially locked (or if it can go up, it’s not clear how long that would take).
Let's see, you've said this:
Quote:
...my friend and I played and won three matches last night and gained 3 CSR. So we just stopped playing that playlist because there was no point.
And this:
Quote:
...this new change really kills the desire for me and my friend to play once we see the rank lock set in.
Those two comments sure seem to indicate to me that the quality of SBMM that the game provides and the game-play itself are less important to you than your visual playlist rank (CSR) and, in particular, a visual ranking system that could easily get inflated over your Match-Maker Rating (MMR) aka TrueSkill.
Quote:
“Is the joy not in being able to play competitive matches while also getting an accurate understanding of where your skill truly exists?” — if the system ranked everyone out of placement correctly in the first place, then I would argue that if I win more than I lose my visible rank should go up, and that’s an accurate representation of my skill that season.
The system does more or less work that way; as in, if you win more than you lose your visible rank should go up, but the system now more accurately weighs the value of a win or a loss so that you're not gaining or losing MMR or CSR at rates that you probably shouldn't be. This will mean that the CSR you're observing is a more accurate representation of your TrueSkill during a season -- at least once your CSR manages to converge with your MMR since it'll be set back 200 (or more if your MMR is over 1900) at the next seasonal reset.
Quote:
“Or is the joy for you only in seeing your CSR continue to rise via a basic win regardless of the real value of that win?” — If I keep winning the value of the win is that my rank should go up (IMO). You win you go up, you lose you go down. The joy for me is knowing that if I play well enough to win I can keep going up. When my friend and I place diamond 3 we then gear up for the climb to onyx, knowing we’ll only make it there if we win enough. And if we reach onyx early in the season, we keep playing to see where we level out (level out by losing, not because the game determines we’ve leveled out). Rank lock kills that, or at the very least makes ranking up a much harder and longer process because you have to win so many more games than usual. There have been seasons and/or playlists where we don’t reach onyx. But it’s because we stop winning. We’ve leveled out to the competition. It’s not because the game said “no your CSR is wrong now, you only get 1 CSR on a win.”
The value of the win is based on your individual performance and team performance vs the expectations which is based on the system's knowledge about yourself and those you're playing with/against.

If the joy for you really is knowing that if you play well enough to win that you can keep going up in rank than I don't see how this system fails you. From my understanding a win will always see your CSR go up; though, it may only be +1 depending on the value of the win -- or within this season it might also be because your CSR is currently inflated well above your MMR so it's going to limit the positive gain of a win until your MMR and CSR manage to converge.

The TS2 system doesn't simply determine that you've leveled out. Only the outcomes of the matches you play will determine if you've leveled out because they're based on your individual and your team performance vs your opponents. The TS2 system simply updates it's knowledge about you afterwards which means it's refining its prediction about your skill going forward, but like I said it's based on what you've proven or achieved relative to who your opponents were. The so-called "rank lock" in this system is no where near the same thing as the "rank lock" that existed in Halo 3. If you seem to get locked into a particular rank (minus perhaps some minor volatility) it's probably because you're consistently performing at your actual skill level, but that's not to say that it's impossible to improve -- it just may take a lot more grueling work, understanding, and dedication plus experience than what you can afford to give. However, maybe you've actually reached your peak and are incapable of developing further if Halo is all you do and understand day-in and day-out.
This new systems damaging to the player population right now in my opinion. On paper, of course the new system beats the old. It's perfect for a new halo game, but not so great for a game in it's late life. I see people bring up the 1-50 system, and I think the point that's missing is just simply that you actually start at 1 in that old system. You don't fast track after 10 matches.

So in regards to a 1-50 system and how it works now (we get it guys...we seee the "same thing under the hood" reference each time it's brought up.) Why not just try starting everyone at the bottom tier and actually grind the rest of halo 5s life until halo 6 comes out? Champ and onyx could still remain those hard to attain/keep ranks. The placement systems always felt iffy to me anyways. Or idk..I'd like to say once you enter onyx, you only play onyx level and champ players and derank after losing streaks...but.. the population and amount of those tiered players may not be high enough.

As it stands now though...it's like...I feel like playing halo 5 ..but don't see a reason to play it. I got days of time spent in ranked arena, while maybe only 1 day or less than that in warzone. Players who favor arena I believe will just change their gaming behavior severely if they haven't already. Has it been noticed yet? Has the population changed for ranked arena? Less people playing now?

If it becomes severe, just reset the season and implement any change(s) you feel would solve it, and have a note in the title screen. It just feels like it's not worth playing right now. Especially if my friends finally decide to get on, I already know I'll probably only get matches where the win to lose ratio in terms of gaining csr or losing csr will be really lopsided to the point of winning X amount of games = regaining that 1 losses impact on your csr.....with time in game coming to the equation....showing a player that within that time frame...your csr is more likley to go way far down than it is to move slightly up...so why even get on?
Why not just try starting everyone at the bottom tier and actually grind the rest of halo 5s life until halo 6 comes out?
Dr Menke has addressed this repeatedly. While this method is great for the people at the top, the retention for all the players the stomp on their way to the top is bad. If the system knows you aren't a bronze player, why should you have to play bronze kids to prove you aren't bronze? Other than, "I want to feel good and stomp all the bad kids" that is.
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