Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 22

OP ZaedynFel

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Reconnect if Disconnected
Some of you have suggested that if you leave a match or get disconnected, we let you rejoin that match. I don’t mind this in playlists that don’t have Join in Progress / Backfilling during a match. I personally like the idea that if you leave a match in any form, the only thing you can do is get back into that particular match until it ends. I could consider allowing players to play Social instead, or mayyybe another playlist, if the reasoning is they left because they didn’t want to play that mode anymore, but waited a little too long to back out.

I think it’s a cool feature, but not one we’ll be seeing in the near future. Definitely worth considering though.

FFA Settings
There have been some suggestions that we refresh the FFA playlist. This is something we are definitely looking at. Some of you have suggested we just switch to using the HCS settings. We have to be a little careful there because unlike Team Arena or HCS, the FFA playlist has not traditionally been 1:1 with tournament settings. We don’t have evidence that all the people playing FFA want to play on the new settings, and we prefer to not split our population because it has consistently made matchmaking worse for both parties afterwards. I do empathize with the need for a refresh though.

Some of you mentioned that if we switch to HCS settings changes, more people will play than did before, so we’ll be fine. However we haven’t seen enough evidence that this will happen given our experience in other playlists, including the main HCS playlist itself. With a lack of evidence that major settings that split the audience can cause growth, we’re being careful moving forward.

This isn’t to say we won’t do anything, but only that we have good reasons for being careful.

Whatever changes we do make will require the same amount of work I’ve described in past updates, which needs to be balanced against any other playlist work we are considering.
Would it be possible to have two FFA playlists? HCS FFA and regular FFA?
I was introduced to the rejoin feature last night in Overwatch. It's nice to be able to rejoin after a random server disconnect and not force a loss on everyone. I personally like the extra addition you mentioned a bit more.
Act or don't act in FFA, it changes little to the fact that the search times are VERY SLOW as it is and there is little to lose at this point. HaloTracker shows FFA has the least people placed in it across all Ranked hoppers, so it's safe to assume the active population isn't that great. Regardless of whether people want it or not, you should be honest with yourselves as to whether or not it even has a real skill gap, and providing a real competitive experience should be the goal in ranked.

I hate to point it out, but 6-man FFA with automatic weapons, which have been admitted not to have a difference in effectiveness past Diamond level (also read: data that proves there isn't a skill gap in using them past that level) is not a true test of skill. People just crouch around and hide. It gets even worse when people quit or lag out, which is rather frequent.

Updating FFA to HCS settings would serve as practice grounds for those who attend HCS events, and would be a form of "true solo queue" for HCS settings in Matchmaking. Seems like a win/win. I know for one that I have no interest in ever searching the current FFA ever again as it is because of just how frustrating and unskillful it is, and that is coming from someone who has been Champion 1 in it multiple times. Most people who I've met in the hopper (high levels on average) share the same opinion.

As an alternative not to split the population, I'd suggest bringing Multi-Team (2v2v2v2) back as a social experience to replace the sort of experience FFA brings (chaos, lots of shooting, action, etc.). Multi-Team used to be called "FFA, but with a teammate", and I think that would be the best solution. Could even throw in some classic objective like KOTH, 3-ball, etc.
maybe HCS FFA ranked and social ffa?
Would it be possible to have two FFA playlists? HCS FFA and regular FFA?
That is something we have discussed.

The issue is that splitting the population will result in much worse matchmaking than FFA today.
I hope we get a HCS FFA playlist at some point because it would enable a lot more people to compete, my dream is to have an HCS FFA playlist plus online FFA tournaments

the hardest thing about competing is finding teammates
Any chance of allowing more quits before a ban in social playlists or making them less severe since we can't have a soft forfeit option?

I wrote a longer response in the previous thread as to why, but you closed it shortly after I posted it. The link to it is below.

Link
I personally would love hcs settings in FFA. Allowing random disconnect people the ability to rejoin the game would be GREAT!
Josh - I like the idea of giving us an option to reconnect if we are dropped unintentionally... but, if we would be forced back into the same match, wouldn't that nerf the effect of the soft forfeit (which I think is a fantastic addition) if I left that match specifically because we were already down 3v4? Or am I misunderstanding?

Thanks.
I think Vetoed nailed it.

I loved FFA in past Halo titles, but even as a Plat-Diamond player, the amount of players hiding with an AR is ridiculous. Coupled with the low population, every match is primarily Onyx players. It's not fun consistently getting 2nd or 3rd place while having at least one player quit during the game.

Go with HCS settings in FFA, and you might attract some players back.

(or, blow it all up and go AR/Storm Rifle starts)
Lets address the still prevelant Smurfing. Thee way to counter smurfing is to set a level minimum to play Ranked, sounds like a bad idea but it would stop the literal WIDESPREAD smurfing that somehow almost nothing has been done about.

Making it so you can play one full rank above yours does not help when it seems the default MMR automatically groups unranked Smurf accounts with Platinums. Stuck in Platinum because of smurfing, I play maybe 3/10 games with people ACTUALLY my skill level in HCS. It's ridiculous and NEEDS to be addressed further.
Can we have party restrictions in social? It gets tiring playing solo and running into teams.
Can we have party restrictions in social? It gets tiring playing solo and running into teams.
I'm against this. Getting tired of losing to squads isn't much of reason to implement restrictions.
Lets address the still prevelant Smurfing. Thee way to counter smurfing is to set a level minimum to play Ranked, sounds like a bad idea but it would stop the literal WIDESPREAD smurfing that somehow almost nothing has been done about.

Making it so you can play one full rank above yours does not help when it seems the default MMR automatically groups unranked Smurf accounts with Platinums. Stuck in Platinum because of smurfing, I play maybe 3/10 games with people ACTUALLY my skill level in HCS. It's ridiculous and NEEDS to be addressed further.
Same here man. Josh, would you be kind to inform us the current state of smurfing? Is your 343 team actually working on this? We would love to hear an honest answer even if its something that you think its not possible to fix please let the community know so that way we would just get used to something not being able to fix.

in addition, for my experience, I have encountered too many smurfs, specially in SWAT. I am not able to rank up being a low diamond due to an onyx player taking a low bronze/silver for easy boosting. Josh, would you tell us why is this still happening? Can't there be a way to detect a fireteam with a large rank gap like onyx/champs teaming up with low bronze/silver in rank arena to prevent ruining the experience for others?

As always, thank you Josh for the transparency and keeping up with the community with your updates.
Glad to hear playlist refreshes are still being considered... I think we'd all love to hear a response to Vetoed's post above, but I have a different but parallel question. Does your role in matchmaking involve any of the changes in the Doubles playlist (this was back in February)?? It's a favorite playlist of mine, and I think lots of people in the community like it as it was campaigned for for a Long, long time... And the feedback thread from Valentine's day is filled with people begging for change, as the respawn timer and some weapon placements are not particularly well received there. Can you give a little update if there is anything happening to the playlist on your end or others?? Is there any chance at all there might be an objective game type added (as it is yet another slayer only playlist?? ). It's a great playlist in a lot of ways and I for one would love to see it be as fun and competitive as it has been in the past with tourney ready settings :)
Lets address the still prevelant Smurfing. Thee way to counter smurfing is to set a level minimum to play Ranked, sounds like a bad idea but it would stop the literal WIDESPREAD smurfing that somehow almost nothing has been done about.

Making it so you can play one full rank above yours does not help when it seems the default MMR automatically groups unranked Smurf accounts with Platinums. Stuck in Platinum because of smurfing, I play maybe 3/10 games with people ACTUALLY my skill level in HCS. It's ridiculous and NEEDS to be addressed further.
smurfing is definitely still an issue. they are ruining everyone's placements and subsequent matches for the season.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Would it be possible to have two FFA playlists? HCS FFA and regular FFA?
That is something we have discussed.

The issue is that splitting the population will result in much worse matchmaking than FFA today.
Quite possibly. It is good at least that we can setup an HCS FFA in custom games.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Reconnect if DisconnectedSome of you have suggested that if you leave a match or get disconnected, we let you rejoin that match. I don’t mind this in playlists that don’t have Join in Progress / Backfilling during a match. I personally like the idea that if you leave a match in any form, the only thing you can do is get back into that particular match until it ends. I could consider allowing players to play Social instead, or mayyybe another playlist, if the reasoning is they left because they didn’t want to play that mode anymore, but waited a little too long to back out.
I think it’s a cool feature, but not one we’ll be seeing in the near future. Definitely worth considering though.
FFA SettingsThere have been some suggestions that we refresh the FFA playlist. This is something we are definitely looking at. Some of you have suggested we just switch to using the HCS settings. We have to be a little careful there because unlike Team Arena or HCS, the FFA playlist has not traditionally been 1:1 with tournament settings. We don’t have evidence that all the people playing FFA want to play on the new settings, and we prefer to not split our population because it has consistently made matchmaking worse for both parties afterwards. I do empathize with the need for a refresh though.
Some of you mentioned that if we switch to HCS settings changes, more people will play than did before, so we’ll be fine. However we haven’t seen enough evidence that this will happen given our experience in other playlists, including the main HCS playlist itself. With a lack of evidence that major settings that split the audience can cause growth, we’re being careful moving forward.
This isn’t to say we won’t do anything, but only that we have good reasons for being careful.
Whatever changes we do make will require the same amount of work I’ve described in past updates, which needs to be balanced against any other playlist work we are considering.
I love the idea of allowing people who lag out of games to join in them again, the other day I had lagged out of a FFA game due to an overhead storm and it lowered my ending rank (I was unranked at that time).
Vetoed wrote:
Act or don't act in FFA, it changes little to the fact that the search times are VERY SLOW as it is and there is little to lose at this point. HaloTracker shows FFA has the least people placed in it across all Ranked hoppers, so it's safe to assume the active population isn't that great. Regardless of whether people want it or not, you should be honest with yourselves as to whether or not it even has a real skill gap, and providing a real competitive experience should be the goal in ranked.

I hate to point it out, but 6-man FFA with automatic weapons, which have been admitted not to have a difference in effectiveness past Diamond level (also read: data that proves there isn't a skill gap in using them past that level) is not a true test of skill. People just crouch around and hide. It gets even worse when people quit or lag out, which is rather frequent.

Updating FFA to HCS settings would serve as practice grounds for those who attend HCS events, and would be a form of "true solo queue" for HCS settings in Matchmaking. Seems like a win/win. I know for one that I have no interest in ever searching the current FFA as it is, ever again because of just how frustrating and unskillful it is, and that is coming from someone who has been Champion 1 in it multiple times. Most people who I've met in the hopper (high levels on average) share the same opinion.

As an alternative not to split the population, I'd suggest bringing Multi-Team (2v2v2v2) back as a social experience to replace the sort of experience FFA brings (chaos, lots of shooting, action, etc.). Multi-Team used to be called "FFA, but with a teammate", and I think that would be the best solution. Could even throw in some classic objective like KOTH, 3-ball, etc.
Boom. You explained exactly how I feel about the playlist. No idea why ranked has to constantly cater to the casual fanbase by including AR's when they're irrelevant past mid diamond.
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