Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 30

OP ZaedynFel

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ZaedynFel wrote:
RhysWX wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
RhysWX wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Niiiiiiice!!
When you say "one form of heavy aim", are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
thanks again for your transparency!!
I'm just being careful about saying, "we've totally fixed heavy aim"

We've fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.

We'll wait and see if there are others.

Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
My ISP can affect the aiming?

Huh?
Sure, awful latency or jitter can make it pretty hard to aim, and we can't do anything about that on our end.
I assume you're talking about players just skipping around, though? Not my internet connection actually changing how my reticle functions?
Yes, which, unfortunately, some people conflate with heavy aim.
Maybe a more direct example of where aiming could feel heavy due to something we couldn't fix would a controller problem.
ZaedynFel wrote:
RhysWX wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Niiiiiiice!!
When you say "one form of heavy aim", are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
thanks again for your transparency!!
I'm just being careful about saying, "we've totally fixed heavy aim"

We've fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.

We'll wait and see if there are others.

Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
My ISP can affect the aiming?

Huh?
Sure, awful latency or jitter can make it pretty hard to aim, and we can't do anything about that on our end.
This makes no sense. Aiming has never been tied to latency, now there were plenty times in previous Halo where my shots weren't connecting because of latency but never has it effected the way my reticle functions.
x Spades x wrote:
Will there be any change to the actual "Aiming system" upcoming? As in... can we possibly get a "0" aim acceleration option soon? i know many people don't like the "two zone" aiming system and I just want to ask the question.
I'm not really part of those conversations, but I wouldn't expect any major changes to the entire system.
Since I've gotten an Xbox One, I've received no Heavy Aim on any FPS title other than one that was made by 343.

Destiny
Black Ops 3
Modern Warfare Remastered
Infinite Warfare
Battlefield
Titantfall 1/2
Doom

All of these have been great in regards to aiming.

I hope this fix is the start of something positive for Halo 5.
Hey Josh,

In the past month or so, it seems that random disconnections from games are happening more frequently for me. Each time they happen, it comes with the familiar "The request to join timed out" message and a lot of frustration on my end. Almost every time, I am still connected to Xbox Live, the REQ system, etc. I am just dropped from the game, even if up until that point, there was no lag, skipping, or jittering. It's just POOF, I'm disconnected.

Have there been any explorations into issues like this? I know there was some work done to implement logging on the servers, but haven't heard any updates since.

It creates a lot of frustration for me, as there is no indication to when this might happen, and leaves my teammates in an unwinnable game, with no way of me joining again.

Could you shed some light on this? Previous Halo games had their own problems, but at least complete random disconnections (where no other services are affected) were not such a common occurrence.

Thanks.
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Will there be any change to the actual "Aiming system" upcoming? As in... can we possibly get a "0" aim acceleration option soon? i know many people don't like the "two zone" aiming system and I just want to ask the question.
I'm not really part of those conversations, but I wouldn't expect any major changes to the entire system.
Ah ok, I understand. Well thanks for letting everyone know what's been going on... and taking the time to answer some of these questions!
Pono AC wrote:
Hey Josh,

In the past month or so, it seems that random disconnections from games are happening more frequently for me. Each time they happen, it comes with the familiar "The request to join timed out" message and a lot of frustration on my end. Almost every time, I am still connected to Xbox Live, the REQ system, etc. I am just dropped from the game, even if up until that point, there was no lag, skipping, or jittering. It's just POOF, I'm disconnected.

Have there been any explorations into issues like this? I know there was some work done to implement logging on the servers, but haven't heard any updates since.

It creates a lot of frustration for me, as there is no indication to when this might happen, and leaves my teammates in an unwinnable game, with no way of me joining again.

Could you shed some light on this? Previous Halo games had their own problems, but at least complete random disconnections (where no other services are affected) were not such a common occurrence.

Thanks.
I've had the same experience in relatively the same time frame. It's not my internet and this is the only game it has been happening on. I'm disconnecting every 2 or 3 games. It happened last night 3 times and I got off. Before that I haven't played in a week and a half or two weeks. I've been experiencing this for about 1.5 months if I had to guess.
IWI IUI wrote:
Pono AC wrote:
Hey Josh,

In the past month or so, it seems that random disconnections from games are happening more frequently for me. Each time they happen, it comes with the familiar "The request to join timed out" message and a lot of frustration on my end. Almost every time, I am still connected to Xbox Live, the REQ system, etc. I am just dropped from the game, even if up until that point, there was no lag, skipping, or jittering. It's just POOF, I'm disconnected.

Have there been any explorations into issues like this? I know there was some work done to implement logging on the servers, but haven't heard any updates since.

It creates a lot of frustration for me, as there is no indication to when this might happen, and leaves my teammates in an unwinnable game, with no way of me joining again.

Could you shed some light on this? Previous Halo games had their own problems, but at least complete random disconnections (where no other services are affected) were not such a common occurrence.

Thanks.
I've had the same experience in relatively the same time frame. It's not my internet and this is the only game it has been happening on. I'm disconnecting every 2 or 3 games. It happened last night 3 times and I got off. Before that I haven't played in a week and a half or two weeks. I've been experiencing this for about 1.5 months if I had to guess.
What playlist(s)?
Glad to hear that heavy aim will finally be gone as of tomorrow. Great work as always.
ZaedynFel wrote:
IWI IUI wrote:
Pono AC wrote:
Hey Josh,

In the past month or so, it seems that random disconnections from games are happening more frequently for me. Each time they happen, it comes with the familiar "The request to join timed out" message and a lot of frustration on my end. Almost every time, I am still connected to Xbox Live, the REQ system, etc. I am just dropped from the game, even if up until that point, there was no lag, skipping, or jittering. It's just POOF, I'm disconnected.

Have there been any explorations into issues like this? I know there was some work done to implement logging on the servers, but haven't heard any updates since.

It creates a lot of frustration for me, as there is no indication to when this might happen, and leaves my teammates in an unwinnable game, with no way of me joining again.

Could you shed some light on this? Previous Halo games had their own problems, but at least complete random disconnections (where no other services are affected) were not such a common occurrence.

Thanks.
I've had the same experience in relatively the same time frame. It's not my internet and this is the only game it has been happening on. I'm disconnecting every 2 or 3 games. It happened last night 3 times and I got off. Before that I haven't played in a week and a half or two weeks. I've been experiencing this for about 1.5 months if I had to guess.
What playlist(s)?
I almost exclusively play edit:HCS. Last night it was with big team games. It happened 3 times. Twice it happened mid game. Once I was Dc'd as I was loading into the server. Only one DNF is showing up though out of the two accounts I was on. I'm assuming that's because I was able to join back in one.

The only other playlist I play is actionsack. It's been at least a couple weeks since then and I can't remember the rate at which it occurred in that playlist.

I've noticed that I either get dc'd right after the countdown (ends up being a 3v4 and counts as a loss) or sometime during the mid or end game. Never happens at the beginning. I've used a DMZ, I've tried disabling UPNP and DMZ in case it conflicted with server protocols, as well as manually port forwarding everything. I've timed the length of time from the start of the game till a DC and have not yet found a pattern with timeouts. Uptime in equipment shows no Dc's from modem or router. The only noticeable change I've seen on my side is that there was an xbox update some time around shortly before it started. Still only happens on halo, but thought I would mention it.
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Niiiiiiice!!
When you say "one form of heavy aim", are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
thanks again for your transparency!!
I'm just being careful about saying, "we've totally fixed heavy aim"

We've fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.

We'll wait and see if there are others.

Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
Many thanks for the incoming heavy aim fix.

I've had another issue crop up recently (last month or so) where I'm getting extreme latency on hit registration. Even when the aim will feel fine, the server won't give me a hit marker on shots landed for +/- 1 sec. Sometimes the shots will land, but late; sometimes they won't seem to register at all and I'm effectively shooting ghosts.

Was particularly bad last night. Every game played across both ranked/social Arena playlists. (This is over wired connection, super high speed internet... and not seemingly present on any other games.)

Would you attribute to server issues?
ZaedynFel wrote:
Party Restrictions UpdateThis stopgap is like the classic solution. We will try to match full parties only against other full parties. It's a bit inefficient in that there are plenty of full parties that are terrible and don't need to match against other parties, and those parties will now wait a little longer and get slightly worse matches. But it should be helpful to non-full parties while we finish the ideal solution.
I have a question about the stopgap. Will parties of two match parties of two, teams of three match teams of three and solo players match other solo players? I'm just wondering if it will be a full on party restrictions for even the smaller parties to make teams 100% fair in terms of same party sizes matching each other. Basically If I go search alone will I randomly match a team of three and they get a random solo person, and then I could maybe get three people searching solo? In this sense it could still be an unfair match.
I like the update! Can you guys to revert the "new" breakout because I feel its less enjoyable and there is less people playing it or just rotate the settings. What happened to Extermination? That was a good and fun playlist,
Quote:
Barring any unexpected complications, we are planning to release the fix we’ve discussed recently that addresses one form of “heavy aim” tomorrow (5/31).EDIT: Since this will get asked a lot. We have a fix for one issue that can definitely make aiming feel bad when it happens. We haven't found any other issues at this time that can cause "heavy aim," but we don't want to claim all "heavy aiming" issues are totally gone forever. We're going to be keeping an eye on how much the issue resolves itself in the wild first.
Glad to see this coming out. The landscape among the competition is going to change drastically.

Quote:
The good news is, we’re putting in a temporary stopgap to tide us over until the more intelligent solution is ready. It’s still another month or so off, so don’t @ me about it yet. But it’s coming.This stopgap is like the classic solution. We will try to match full parties only against other full parties. It's a bit inefficient in that there are plenty of full parties that are terrible and don't need to match against other parties, and those parties will now wait a little longer and get slightly worse matches. But it should be helpful to non-full parties while we finish the ideal solution.
Another great addition. Fairness and search times aside, solo que players matching solo que players, 2s matching 2s, and 4s matching 4s is a lot more fun. At least from an HCS standpoint.
True Yomi wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Party Restrictions UpdateThis stopgap is like the classic solution. We will try to match full parties only against other full parties. It's a bit inefficient in that there are plenty of full parties that are terrible and don't need to match against other parties, and those parties will now wait a little longer and get slightly worse matches. But it should be helpful to non-full parties while we finish the ideal solution.
I have a question about the stopgap. Will parties of two match parties of two, teams of three match teams of three and solo players match other solo players? I'm just wondering if it will be a full on party restrictions for even the smaller parties to make teams 100% fair in terms of same party sizes matching each other. Basically If I go search alone will I randomly match a team of three and they get a random solo person, and then I could maybe get three people searching solo? In this sense it could still be an unfair match.
No, it would not be full like that. Unfortunately, there's no way to do that on the new platform (XBL). It can try to find another party of 3 or 2 first, but there's no way to prevent it. We can only do full parties.

The good news is our data shows that your average party of 3 is terrible, so you shouldn't suffer much from that. The data show that, for the most part, only full sometimes play above their expected skill level, and are, of course, impossible to team balance.

Parties of 3 do not have a higher win percentage than solo players, so saying it's unfair is more subjective at that point.
ZaedynFel wrote:
IWI IUI wrote:
Pono AC wrote:
Hey Josh,

In the past month or so, it seems that random disconnections from games are happening more frequently for me. Each time they happen, it comes with the familiar "The request to join timed out" message and a lot of frustration on my end. Almost every time, I am still connected to Xbox Live, the REQ system, etc. I am just dropped from the game, even if up until that point, there was no lag, skipping, or jittering. It's just POOF, I'm disconnected.

Have there been any explorations into issues like this? I know there was some work done to implement logging on the servers, but haven't heard any updates since.

It creates a lot of frustration for me, as there is no indication to when this might happen, and leaves my teammates in an unwinnable game, with no way of me joining again.

Could you shed some light on this? Previous Halo games had their own problems, but at least complete random disconnections (where no other services are affected) were not such a common occurrence.

Thanks.
I've had the same experience in relatively the same time frame. It's not my internet and this is the only game it has been happening on. I'm disconnecting every 2 or 3 games. It happened last night 3 times and I got off. Before that I haven't played in a week and a half or two weeks. I've been experiencing this for about 1.5 months if I had to guess.
What playlist(s)?
It almost strictly happens when I'm playing HCS and can't say I've noticed similar problems in my outings in Big Team Battle, Super Fiesta, or Warzone. I definitely don't recall it ever happening in Warzone.
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Niiiiiiice!!
When you say "one form of heavy aim", are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
thanks again for your transparency!!
I'm just being careful about saying, "we've totally fixed heavy aim"

We've fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.

We'll wait and see if there are others.

Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
I do think this heavy aim patch will clear a lot up for the game/players. But I do hope 343 is willing to keep an open dialog for further aim issues if they seem to persist. I want H5 to succeed and 343 to succeed. Communication goes a long way. I totally can understand that certain things may effect ones game experience outside of your control.. So one doesn't want to make this patch sound like a cure for all things. I will report back here just to share my experience with this heavy aim patch. Because communication works both ways. I'm not looking for perfection I'm just looking for a game that plays more like it should on a fairly consistent level. Again thanks for your time and good communication in this matter. Zippy...
I don't know if there will be a write-up for the heavy aim update tomorrow, but it would be great if an explanation for it and what caused it could be included in this week's community update.
Just following up on an previous post you made about accounting for individual performance in the post-game MMR update:

"To your last point incorporating individual performance while still honoring the winner: This is something we are working on this very moment for MMR. It's going to take awhile because it's a major improvement involving very intricate math to get right. This will improve MMR estimates greatly, although we won't be applying it directly to CSR in Halo 5. It will indirectly affect CSR though, because CSR is based on enemy difficulty, and enemy difficulty will be more precise that it is now."

My question: are you saying that individual performance will not affect post-game CSR updates, but it may cause you to get put into a much harder or much easier game afterwards (because your MMR will have changed significantly based on performance), and thus will give you an opportunity to gain or lose a lot of CSR in that next game (and subsequent games)? So basically the CSR gain/loss algorithm with remain ELO-like, based only on Win/Loss, but the matchmaking will change.

I've been a very vocal opponent of including any individual performance stats into player ranks, but I think I really like your idea here, precisely because CSR is not directly affected. Maybe I'm finally understanding it... This would mean that CSR remains totally pure and focused on winning (not stat-hoarding), but matchmaking would be more efficient at knowing when to put low ranked people into harder games, which would then rank them up faster if they can win those hard games.
Vetoed wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
RhysWX wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
x Spades x wrote:
Niiiiiiice!!
When you say "one form of heavy aim", are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
thanks again for your transparency!!
I'm just being careful about saying, "we've totally fixed heavy aim"

We've fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.

We'll wait and see if there are others.

Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
My ISP can affect the aiming?

Huh?
Sure, awful latency or jitter can make it pretty hard to aim, and we can't do anything about that on our end.
Important nuance here. In this context, does "aim" mean reticle movement or shot registration? Because Halo 5 is the first FPS I ever experience to affect reticle movement itself based on lag.

Predicting someone when there's a lot of lag is harder, and that's fine, but aiming mechanics should 100% be the same across all matches.
I still believe (until proven otherwise) that this about lag/bad server/ or = bad internet affects your reticle is true on some level.

The reason for me saying this is because I have had some big internet problems during a long period of time where I would get Ping spikes pretty frequently. But I haven't been skipping around playing. Some occasional disconnects and a lot of Streams buffering and getting to low quality. FIFA was impossible to play during this time. Both my ISP and the people actual responsible for the fiber in the ground couldn't find the source of the problem for very long. But both could see there was a problem. During this time (6-8 months) I haven't been able to aim at all.

But recently we found the problem and have fixed it and now the difference in HeavyAim is significant. There is still matches where it can be horrible (hence you found something in the code, Menke), but it is less than it was. So it must have something to do with some form of internet latency problem also.

But nice that you are releasing the fix tomorrow! :)
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