Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – May 8

OP ZaedynFel

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 5
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
That's because it's a double-edged sword in Ranked. On the one hand, the team down a player (or two or three) could get players that could completely flip the match, which isn't fair to the other team. On the other hand, the players joining the game are more than likely going to be guaranteed a loss, which is unfair to them. After all, most people quit because the other team is stomping them early and hard, as often demonstrated in Social matches.
I guess the "heavy aim" is to blame why my shots have been so inconsistent. I been going crazy switching my sens/acel and dead zones trying to get my crispy shots back but to no avail. Hopefully you guys fix the issue asap. One more thing what's up with the servers!!! I been kicked out from at least three games every time I play. It can't be my internet cause I have the fastest my provider has to offer.
First of all, thanks for the updates on heavy aim. I've personally lost a lot of controllers trying to prove heavy aim existed or by modifying them to feel better for playing halo 5. After killing two elites and an Xbox s controller I'm ready for the aiming to feel good.

You say that heavy aim occurs when you get yourself into a certain state. I constantly experience heavy aim depending on which playlist I play. For instance team skirmish and BTB feel sluggish for me whereas Team Arena and Action Sack feel buttery smooth. When the time is right, would I be able to get an explanation for this?

Also, I was the person that made the video which seemed to demonstrate heavy aim using a relay. Since making that video people have tried to prove my method with an arduino and a Cronus max. Nothing conclusive came of it, so I'd like to know if there's any way you could find out from someone much smater than us what was actually happening in our tests? Were we demonstrating heavy aim or was it something else entirely? A lot of us have spent time and money trying to figure this out so an explanation would make it feel like less of a waste, for me at least.
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
It wouldn't be a losing team or game if the player was replaced immediately. Me and my friends have won plenty of matches even with the disadvantage of us having only 3 players vs 4 players. However we have lost a lot more 3 v 4 matches then we have won. But your guys solution to mid game quitting is just let everyone quit with little to no penalty? I'm sure for every person you say wouldn't want to join into a losing game there is 3 more that would appreciate somebody trying to keep their team from being destroyed by a 3 on 4 encounter!
Gonagon wrote:
Gonagon wrote:
I really am hoping to see the update for the aim fix and party matching within the month. Can you give us an estimation on a potential release? And please dont tell me itll take months.
Answering questions like this is a lose/lose.

If he tells you "approximately X" and then something happens, people will be upset that it got delayed and that, "343 lied!"

If he doesn't tell you, people get mad and assume it's not coming.

My advice would be to not ask for things like this. They are working on it and we know this. They'll tell us what we need to know, when they deem we need to it.
Thats why I used the word "Estimation" since it doesnt mean an official release date.
It's still lose/lose. He's a part of the team, so anything he gives out will be assumed to be "official" by us. He gives us an estimated date, estimated date comes and goes, people ask what happened to stuff happening on estimated date. People get mad. Just the way things work out.
It's not my fault people don't know what estimation means.
MIb2347 wrote:
First of all, thanks for the updates on heavy aim. I've personally lost a lot of controllers trying to prove heavy aim existed or by modifying them to feel better for playing halo 5. After killing two elites and an Xbox s controller I'm ready for the aiming to feel good.

You say that heavy aim occurs when you get yourself into a certain state. I constantly experience heavy aim depending on which playlist I play. For instance team skirmish and BTB feel sluggish for me whereas Team Arena and Action Sack feel buttery smooth. When the time is right, would I be able to get an explanation for this?

Also, I was the person that made the video which seemed to demonstrate heavy aim using a relay. Since making that video people have tried to prove my method with an arduino and a Cronus max. Nothing conclusive came of it, so I'd like to know if there's any way you could find out from someone much smater than us what was actually happening in our tests? Were we demonstrating heavy aim or was it something else entirely? A lot of us have spent time and money trying to figure this out so an explanation would make it feel like less of a waste, for me at least.
Been reading your stuff on team beyond for a while now and I'm impressed. You and WU IP MAN made it so 343 couldn't ignore this issue and I thank you for that.
Gonagon wrote:
MIb2347 wrote:
First of all, thanks for the updates on heavy aim. I've personally lost a lot of controllers trying to prove heavy aim existed or by modifying them to feel better for playing halo 5. After killing two elites and an Xbox s controller I'm ready for the aiming to feel good.

You say that heavy aim occurs when you get yourself into a certain state. I constantly experience heavy aim depending on which playlist I play. For instance team skirmish and BTB feel sluggish for me whereas Team Arena and Action Sack feel buttery smooth. When the time is right, would I be able to get an explanation for this?

Also, I was the person that made the video which seemed to demonstrate heavy aim using a relay. Since making that video people have tried to prove my method with an arduino and a Cronus max. Nothing conclusive came of it, so I'd like to know if there's any way you could find out from someone much smater than us what was actually happening in our tests? Were we demonstrating heavy aim or was it something else entirely? A lot of us have spent time and money trying to figure this out so an explanation would make it feel like less of a waste, for me at least.
Been reading your stuff on team beyond for a while now and I'm impressed. You and WU IP MAN made it so 343 couldn't ignore this issue and I thank you for that.
Thanks dude!

Wu Ip Man, Automousbeing, Apollo, DeucEy, and everyone else put time into this and it's great to see we might get a fix soon.

If I could switch between Team Arena, FFA, WZFF and HCS without the aim feeling different I'd be quite happy.
ZaedynFel wrote:
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Any chance you can expand on what a 'temporary state' means? Are we lagging? Is the controller input messing up? Are we in the Matrix?
My explanation would be so terrible it's not worth trying. I think they'll probably do a write-up on it. If not, maybe I'll get something I can copy-paste from the engineers after the fix is in.

It's not network lag though.
I'd really like to read more about it. I hope you can get us something, I doubt anyone else will say anything. Could you also add in why they took so long to "look into it" or maybe they were aware of this problem but they were just quiet about it?
It seems like the problem was ignored for too long but maybe I'm wrong.
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
The real question is How hard would it be to end a match that lost a player before any relevant progress/time was achieved?

Like someone quitting before the first minute of the match or before the first 10 kills or before the first 10 points (Strongholds). Other FPSs have this feature.
NOLEX4 wrote:
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
The real question is How hard would it be to end a match that lost a player before any relevant progress/time was achieved?

Like someone quitting before the first minute of the match or before the first 10 kills or before the first 10 points (Strongholds). Other FPSs have this feature.
That's exactly what the soft forfeit feature they just added does. You can quit out of these matches, count it as a loss (but not double like it used to be), and not be banned.
dont know if its just me but the aiming feels a bit wonky recently and while playing a total of 3 ffa matches first games dnf,second complete,,third dnf.Could just be servers or my internet.
Oh damn, this just made my day.
MIb2347 wrote:
Gonagon wrote:
MIb2347 wrote:
First of all, thanks for the updates on heavy aim. I've personally lost a lot of controllers trying to prove heavy aim existed or by modifying them to feel better for playing halo 5. After killing two elites and an Xbox s controller I'm ready for the aiming to feel good.

You say that heavy aim occurs when you get yourself into a certain state. I constantly experience heavy aim depending on which playlist I play. For instance team skirmish and BTB feel sluggish for me whereas Team Arena and Action Sack feel buttery smooth. When the time is right, would I be able to get an explanation for this?

Also, I was the person that made the video which seemed to demonstrate heavy aim using a relay. Since making that video people have tried to prove my method with an arduino and a Cronus max. Nothing conclusive came of it, so I'd like to know if there's any way you could find out from someone much smater than us what was actually happening in our tests? Were we demonstrating heavy aim or was it something else entirely? A lot of us have spent time and money trying to figure this out so an explanation would make it feel like less of a waste, for me at least.
Been reading your stuff on team beyond for a while now and I'm impressed. You and WU IP MAN made it so 343 couldn't ignore this issue and I thank you for that.
Thanks dude!

Wu Ip Man, Automousbeing, Apollo, DeucEy, and everyone else put time into this and it's great to see we might get a fix soon.

If I could switch between Team Arena, FFA, WZFF and HCS without the aim feeling different I'd be quite happy.
Yeah you guys put in the work. On twitch my name is FIXTHEAIMING343 haahaha. I love you for this(no homo) . I personally dont give a crap how this happened but im still soemwhat curious. I just want a fix. and It coming out within the month would make me VERY happy
dont know if its just me but the aiming feels a bit wonky recently and while playing a total of 3 ffa matches first games dnf,second complete,,third dnf.Could just be servers or my internet.
Its called heavy aim dude. Its not YOU! trust me it is not YOU!
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
Would be nice if people on your friends list could choose to JIP by joining the party if they want, if you're down a player.
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
You say you think you can achieve better MM by accounting for whether people play better or worse in a party, but will you also influence the CSR or MMR gained/lost with that calculation?
The only real difference is matchmaking will be better.

Today, if a group of 1200s play like 1500s together, then MMR and CSR of both end up being 1500. The individual MMRs are inflated because it doesn't know there's a party advantage.

Likewise, today, if one of those 1200s goes and plays outside their party, they still play vs. 1500s (MMR is 1500) and they get owned until both CSR and MMR drop to 1200 where they "belong"

With the update, if a group of 1200s always plays together, performing like 1500s, and we know their party adjustment is 300, then their MMRs will be 1200, but their CSRs will still be 1500 because they will be going 50/50 vs. 1500s.

If one of those 1200s goes and plays solo, instead of getting owned while they drift down to 1200, they will immediately match vs. 1200s, but watch their CSR drift down because they will be getting less for a win and losing more for a loss.

So, the overall net is the same as today, just with better matchmaking.
I love the new system, but quick question -- how does it know how I play individually vs in a team? Ever since last season I exclusively only play with at least one other person now. Has it gone back and retroactively looked through all my previous games?
Gr00vyTuna wrote:
How hard would it be to replace a player who quits early with another player waiting for a match? They do it all the time in Social matches but not in Ranked. Why?
Because no one is going to want to join into a game, on a losing team, to be guaranteed a loss in CSR/MMR.

It's fine in Social but JIP shouldn't be in Ranked.
Would be nice if people on your friends list could choose to JIP by joining the party if they want, if you're down a player.
The problem with this usually is that you can fill the slot with a much better friend (ringer) and circumvent the matchmaking.
ZaedynFel wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
You say you think you can achieve better MM by accounting for whether people play better or worse in a party, but will you also influence the CSR or MMR gained/lost with that calculation?
The only real difference is matchmaking will be better.

Today, if a group of 1200s play like 1500s together, then MMR and CSR of both end up being 1500. The individual MMRs are inflated because it doesn't know there's a party advantage.

Likewise, today, if one of those 1200s goes and plays outside their party, they still play vs. 1500s (MMR is 1500) and they get owned until both CSR and MMR drop to 1200 where they "belong"

With the update, if a group of 1200s always plays together, performing like 1500s, and we know their party adjustment is 300, then their MMRs will be 1200, but their CSRs will still be 1500 because they will be going 50/50 vs. 1500s.

If one of those 1200s goes and plays solo, instead of getting owned while they drift down to 1200, they will immediately match vs. 1200s, but watch their CSR drift down because they will be getting less for a win and losing more for a loss.

So, the overall net is the same as today, just with better matchmaking.
I love the new system, but quick question -- how does it know how I play individually vs in a team? Ever since last season I exclusively only play with at least one other person now. Has it gone back and retroactively looked through all my previous games?
This feature is still a bit off, but there are a few options for how we would tell your skill vs. your friend(s).

  • Use all your past history (we have it)
  • Look at in-game performance measures as long as they improve accuracy (e.g. kills, deaths, etc.)
We would only add, e.g., kills if it actually led to more accurate ratings that also predicted win / loss better, and not just kills.

A combination of both of those is probably an effective way of telling you apart from your friends.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 5