Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – November 21

OP ZaedynFel

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lFi3RY wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
So people who are mid-plat players have an increased chance of matching against champions and Onyx players? It doesn't seem fair on paper, I'm sure you have already thought about that and will be suggesting to people who will complain about this on how to make it a less of a chance. However, this will only make the mid-plat players not wanting to play the HCS list because they have the slightest chance of matching someone/some people who are leagues above their skill level; and with the population count of Halo 5 is depleting, this will only speed up that process (in my opinion anyway).

Also, I am glad you are slowly adding different game-types into the Oddball playlist but I think it should have been Strongholds. As CTF and Slayer seem to be a lot slower due to the nerf and players will eventually get bored of it. Can you maybe put magnum starts back into the HWC Oddball playlist? As currently the new BR isn't consistent and can be often dropped for another weapon; as well as, not bothering with the gunfighter magnum... because it's a weird idea for a secondary (again in my opinion).
I think we'll see an additional tweak on the weapon tuning down the road that will address BR and other weapon feedback, but the magnum is now over-powered and so doesn't work for competitive. There would basically be no reason to have any other weapons on the map, which given our current history we have found to not be a successful approach. We're currently only putting actual HWC candidate map/modes into that playlist.
so can you not, and can you guys actually listen to the players and all the pros who are saying to change it back. Like sure if its better down the road then test it again. however do not keep forcing stuff we clearly do not like down our throats.
strongly agree with this. You and 343 are forcing a broken update that nobody in the community has asked for and left us to just make do with the horrendous gameplay you left us with. Im convinced that you guys refuse to listen to anything that we ask for. As far as the magnum being OP; of course its going to be considered "op" when you nerf every other weapon in the game. It boggles my mind and a lot of others too that you guys cannot simply give us what we asked for, and this is not the first occasion. Get your stuff straight and actually take the time to reach out to find what the community wants versus what you think is best (worst) for the game. Listen to the professionals and the majority of the community who is literally not playing your game any longer because of this stupid update.
Regarding radar feedback, I hope the Spartan Ability radar is not only implemented across all playlists at some point, but I hope it's default for Halo 6 if sprint is to remain. Here's at least one reason why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbNDVA440I8
Not sure if this is the right post for this, but what's with all the game freezes since the update? Finding games in BTB is painful at best now, but add in this problem and it can make it downright impossible. You lock into a game, all 16 emblems are present for a split second, and then almost always someone has their game freeze and they get kicked and have to reset the build leaving 15 unlucky players to search for another solo player. We see this all day long. The long search time is compounded as the search timer is reset and starts another 5 minute search timer trying to fill that one spot before more people quit... When I'm the lucky person to get frozen/kicked I notice that the other players (not on my fireteam) emblems don't load and gray loading boxes show up instead. Talking to my party they see my emblem was dropped. Sometimes my game completely crashes at that point, or I have to reset the build. I also frequently have my game UI freeze up when checking the previous game stats between games. Exiting the stat screen to return to the searching screen causes the game to hang. Sometimes I can still hear my button presses working for a few more seconds. Then I hear a party member tell me my emblem was dropped.... None of this ever happened prior to the update. HELP! This is happening to everyone I know and talk to.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Sorry for the late post this week. I don’t have any major updates, just some minor ones. We’re busy with the HWC playlist right now. It’s also a short work week in the US.

Minor updates:
  • We’ve allowed Champ and Onyx players to match down into mid-Plat in the HCS list to reduce matchmaking wait times during the testing period.
  • We have a target to add Slayer to the HCS list by the end of next week. It will be a mix of Slayer and Oddball, with higher weighting on the Slayer maps since those will be the focus during the next testing pass.
  • For those who are curious, we have collected our first round of Pro player feedback. This round targeted the previous settings and not the current Oddball list. We'll use it to inform updates to the previous game modes. We'll be soliciting feedback about Oddball today and collecting that in about a week, but that feedback won't get applied till we make our next pass at Oddball after the other modes finish their first pass.
For those of you who celebrate it, have a great Thanksgiving!
Why instead of testing these settings in matchmaking with random players, don't we have the pros scrim oddball hcs vs each other a couple times on several maps? That feedback would be the best you could get and you wouldn't have to completely alter the competitive playlist.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Sorry for the late post this week. I don’t have any major updates, just some minor ones. We’re busy with the HWC playlist right now. It’s also a short work week in the US.

Minor updates:
  • We’ve allowed Champ and Onyx players to match down into mid-Plat in the HCS list to reduce matchmaking wait times during the testing period.
  • We have a target to add Slayer to the HCS list by the end of next week. It will be a mix of Slayer and Oddball, with higher weighting on the Slayer maps since those will be the focus during the next testing pass.
  • For those who are curious, we have collected our first round of Pro player feedback. This round targeted the previous settings and not the current Oddball list. We'll use it to inform updates to the previous game modes. We'll be soliciting feedback about Oddball today and collecting that in about a week, but that feedback won't get applied till we make our next pass at Oddball after the other modes finish their first pass.
For those of you who celebrate it, have a great Thanksgiving!
Is it possible to get MMR to show on Champion ranks?
ZaedynFel wrote:
So people who are mid-plat players have an increased chance of matching against champions and Onyx players? It doesn't seem fair on paper, I'm sure you have already thought about that and will be suggesting to people who will complain about this on how to make it a less of a chance. However, this will only make the mid-plat players not wanting to play the HCS list because they have the slightest chance of matching someone/some people who are leagues above their skill level; and with the population count of Halo 5 is depleting, this will only speed up that process (in my opinion anyway).

Also, I am glad you are slowly adding different game-types into the Oddball playlist but I think it should have been Strongholds. As CTF and Slayer seem to be a lot slower due to the nerf and players will eventually get bored of it. Can you maybe put magnum starts back into the HWC Oddball playlist? As currently the new BR isn't consistent and can be often dropped for another weapon; as well as, not bothering with the gunfighter magnum... because it's a weird idea for a secondary (again in my opinion).
I think we'll see an additional tweak on the weapon tuning down the road that will address BR and other weapon feedback, but the magnum is now over-powered and so doesn't work for competitive. There would basically be no reason to have any other weapons on the map, which given our current history we have found to not be a successful approach. We're currently only putting actual HWC candidate map/modes into that playlist.
The Magnum is not overpowered if everybody has it as the main weapon. It only became "overpowered" once every other gun became nearly useless. Even if the Magnum was removed, the alternatives for the starting weapon (BR, DMR, Gunfighter Mag), are not fun to use because I feel so limited with how effective they are. The BR is extremely difficult to use at long distances, & the DMR is extremely difficult to use at short distances. It's not fun to be so limited by the rifles. The rifles used to annoy me with how dominant they could be over the pistol if everybody on the other team had one, but now they bother me because they are being forced on us when they are ineffective & frustrating/boring. I have never had a problem with Magnum only maps/gametypes. I search the custom browser on occasion to play FFAs with only magnums. It feels consistent, even & it doesn't feel too easy or too difficult. Thinking back to a gametype in the past where there wasn't really any other weapons on the map, I think of Onslaught CTF & Amplified TS in Halo 3 MLG. Those are actually some gametypes that were enjoyed by the competitive crowd because it relied so heavily on raw skill with the BR & teamwork. I love those gametypes because it defines what Halo was about for me. Aim, teamwork, & map control. With the new weapon tuning, it feels like the game has been reduced down to teamwork, internet connection, & map control.

I really can't stand playing Halo 5 anymore with this new update because the Battle Rifle just feels rough, awkward, & unpredictable. The pistol on the other hand felt smooth, consistent, & dynamic. By the way, the new DMR isn't awful. Just a little awkward with the aim assist up close.

I appreciate you & the work you & your coworkers do. I & many others are just frustrated with how it feels that we are all being misunderstood or ignored completely. It has been happening like this for years too. That is why the community is being so toxic but I hope you don't give up on us & try your best to understand us. Many thanks.
ZaedynFel wrote:
I think we'll see an additional tweak on the weapon tuning down the road that will address BR and other weapon feedback, but the magnum is now over-powered and so doesn't work for competitive. There would basically be no reason to have any other weapons on the map, which given our current history we have found to not be a successful approach.
Josh, just to clarify: is it a 100% certainty that the magnum will no longer be in competitive play, regardless of the feedback being given?
The community has already made it very clear that we don't want a magnum nerf. Retune the weapons that are not working in their new specks. Mainly the BR. Don't touch the magnum please. That'll tear the gameplay apart.

The br is so frustrating to use now. You do that with the main utility weapon in halo 5, this community will revolt if you do.

You guys are gathering information from statistics and pro players that represent less than .01 %of the population. Listen to the guys that are still playing your game, the ones that come on to your site to share their opinion becuase they love halo, The ones that love your game. You're going to wreck what is a pretty good mp in the franchise. Leave the magnum alone, I can't say it enough.
You guys are gathering information from statistics and pro players that represent less than .01 %of the population. Listen to the guys that are still playing your game, the ones that come on to your site to share their opinion becuase they love halo, The ones that love your game. You're going to wreck what is a pretty good mp in the franchise. Leave the magnum alone, I can't say it enough.
Your wording implies that the competitive/pro community completely supports the retuned BR. That’s completely false. If you read the TB forums, almost none of the pros who post there, nor do the competitive community members like this BR. They still play the game as much as others do, so their opinion is still as valid.

Please, do not unnecessarily shift blame at the community who clearly doesn’t have 343’s back in this balance update and the decision to remove the magnum from HCS settings. None of them asked for something like this.
The game has been out for a little over two years and there has yet to be new maps implemented into the rotation. I know for a fact, a ton of my friends who have stopped playing Halo 5 would return to playing again if new maps were added into all of the ranked playlists. Been playing the same maps over and over. This has been the only game in my online gaming experience where there were never any new maps added into ranked playlists. Simple fix to gain more population if you ask me.
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I'd like to know if you are working on banning quitters, it's unfair getting a low rank due to them. I appreciate your efforts to balance games but I think it's failing bcuz it doesn't reduce quitting.

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I don't understand why any changes were made at all.
My main focus with be on the BR, having a radom bullet spread on the BR is a horrible idea. It’s not about skill any more. No amount of skill can match a random spread. You thought the BR was inconsistent before it’s even more so now. Please fix this. The BR Is a rifle, at no point should a pistol out of shoot a rifle. I put alot of time into this game and i appreciate what your trying to do, but not your best work.
TryHardFan wrote:
You guys are gathering information from statistics and pro players that represent less than .01 %of the population. Listen to the guys that are still playing your game, the ones that come on to your site to share their opinion becuase they love halo, The ones that love your game. You're going to wreck what is a pretty good mp in the franchise. Leave the magnum alone, I can't say it enough.
Your wording implies that the competitive/pro community completely supports the retuned BR. That’s completely false. If you read the TB forums, almost none of the pros who post there, nor do the competitive community members like this BR. They still play the game as much as others do, so their opinion is still as valid.

Please, do not unnecessarily shift blame at the community who clearly doesn’t have 343’s back in this balance update and the decision to remove the magnum from HCS settings. None of them asked for something like this.
The pro community is not the competitive community. Almost everyone who plays halo is a part of the competitive community. Competitive is a mindset, skill has nothing to do with it. I'm very competitive, not the most skilled.

"For those who are curious, we have collected our first round of Pro player feedback"

^Directly from OP.

This is isnt me shifting blame to competitive players. It's once again 343 using pro player feedback and ineffective stats like player quit rates to base their decisions on. There is a huge gap between what 343 is currently implementing or talking of implementing with what the community wants. There is something very wrong with the way theyre either gathering or interpreting data.

I simply do not agree with putting more emphasis on the opinions of a very small portion of the community than the majority. Regardless of what their opinion is and weather or not I agree with it (quite often I do) . I hear that term way to often "pro player feedback", when I should be hearing "community feedback".

Im not blaming the players for this one TryHardFan. I'm blaming 343 and their refusal to listen to the gamers who still play their game almost nightly.
I don't understand why any changes were made at all.
The problem with the weapons was that there were too many EZ-mode alternatives that were just straight upgrades to the magnum. That had to get fixed and simple Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism tweaks would have taken care of it for the majority of the weapons, but somewhere along the way everything got over-complicated.

Why they are trying to make HCS BR starts... i have no idea.
My main focus with be on the BR, having a radom bullet spread on the BR is a horrible idea. It’s not about skill any more. No amount of skill can match a random spread. You thought the BR was inconsistent before it’s even more so now. Please fix this. The BR Is a rifle, at no point should a pistol out of shoot a rifle. I put alot of time into this game and i appreciate what your trying to do, but not your best work.
To be fair to the random spread, Inside of RRR it doesn't seem to make a difference. I still think RNG has no part as a mechanic of the precision weapons period, but in a functional sense its so minor that it doesn't seem to matter. The issue with the BR now just seems to be that it shoots so slowly. Like holy hell is it slow. EDIT: This seems to be caused by the overly-extended burst cadence, not the space between bursts.

Your second point there im going to disagree with entirely. Why are we trying to attach modern day, real life realism to a sci-fi shooter taking place in the 2500's? Forget what the magnum looks like and think about the way it handles and shoots. Its a good utility weapon in that regard. Probably one of the best-designed weapons that halo has had. The visual advantage it has over a rifle is that it literally blocks less of your screen space.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Jolly Josh wrote:
You state you are only putting actual HWC (assume you mean HCS) candidate map/modes into the playlist yet Overgrowth which has been vetted and removed previously is in the rotation.
I wasn't here for previous Overgrowth usage, so I can't speak to that. But I know we hadn't tried Overgrowth on the new weapon tuning and on Oddball.

Looking at stats that measure competitiveness (OG is more competitive than at least half our pre-existing maps), blue/red balance (near 50/50), and quit rates (lowest playtest quit rate), Overgrowth is performing very well.

I'm not personally a map guy, so can't speak much to it though. It does seem that outside the verifiable measures we have that look great for Overgrowth, I've only heard subjective feedback.
Question about how you measure quitting ... do you track the number of people who quit the build to back out of lobby before the game starts, or just in-game quits? Every time I pull Oddball on OG people drop out like flies, and the ones left over are those who have resigned themselves to it or who just want to play a game regardless of the map it's on.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Jolly Josh wrote:
You state you are only putting actual HWC (assume you mean HCS) candidate map/modes into the playlist yet Overgrowth which has been vetted and removed previously is in the rotation.
I wasn't here for previous Overgrowth usage, so I can't speak to that. But I know we hadn't tried Overgrowth on the new weapon tuning and on Oddball.

Looking at stats that measure competitiveness (OG is more competitive than at least half our pre-existing maps), blue/red balance (near 50/50), and quit rates (lowest playtest quit rate), Overgrowth is performing very well.

I'm not personally a map guy, so can't speak much to it though. It does seem that outside the verifiable measures we have that look great for Overgrowth, I've only heard subjective feedback.
Question about how you measure quitting ... do you track the number of people who quit the build to back out of lobby before the game starts, or just in-game quits? Every time I pull Oddball on OG people drop out like flies, and the ones left over are those who have resigned themselves to it or who just want to play a game regardless of the map it's on.
he has answered previously that they track both and adding in the pre-game lobby quitting hasn't made a significant difference (yet). I notice this too though. Very subjectively, overgrowth gets dodged more than any of the others.
TryHardFan wrote:
You guys are gathering information from statistics and pro players that represent less than .01 %of the population. Listen to the guys that are still playing your game, the ones that come on to your site to share their opinion becuase they love halo, The ones that love your game. You're going to wreck what is a pretty good mp in the franchise. Leave the magnum alone, I can't say it enough.
Your wording implies that the competitive/pro community completely supports the retuned BR. That’s completely false. If you read the TB forums, almost none of the pros who post there, nor do the competitive community members like this BR. They still play the game as much as others do, so their opinion is still as valid.

Please, do not unnecessarily shift blame at the community who clearly doesn’t have 343’s back in this balance update and the decision to remove the magnum from HCS settings. None of them asked for something like this.
The pro community is not the competitive community. Almost everyone who plays halo is a part of the competitive community. Competitive is a mindset, skill has nothing to do with it. I'm very competitive, not the most skilled.

"For those who are curious, we have collected our first round of Pro player feedback"

^Directly from OP.

This is isnt me shifting blame to competitive players. It's once again 343 using pro player feedback and ineffective stats like player quit rates to base their decisions on. There is a huge gap between what 343 is currently implementing or talking of implementing with what the community wants. There is something very wrong with the way theyre either gathering or interpreting data.

I simply do not agree with putting more emphasis on the opinions of a very small portion of the community than the majority. Regardless of what their opinion is and weather or not I agree with it (quite often I do) . I hear that term way to often "pro player feedback", when I should be hearing "community feedback".

Im not blaming the players for this one TryHardFan. I'm blaming 343 and their refusal to listen to the gamers who still play their game almost nightly.
If you read any tweet from pro players or went and looked at their posts on teambeyond posts, like TryHardFan stated, you would see that's just not true. They have openly called out 343 for taking their feedback and doing nothing with it and they are clearly against BR/GF starts. Some of them (mikwen comes to mind) were open to giving new settings a chance (he changed his mind about 1-2 days into the update), but almost all of them agree that this is not the way 343 should move with the game.

I agree with you that 343 needs to listen to players not only their "data", which they will source in so many arguments to prove their point, that shows this and that but they can't show any of us because of reasons XYZ.
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