[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – November 5

eLantern wrote:

The Sig Fig wrote:

And that's fine. No system is going to be perfect. I just very much prefer the system where I don't have a voice in my head to fast play every engagement vs. playing each situation for the win, even if it's slow. I have played games in every Halo where I know the players on the other team, I know he has a better shot than me and I can't just fly into an encounter- but I know I can bait them, out-think them and sometimes steal a win. That's not rewarded much now. From a game quality perspective, I think it's a negative.

That's not true.

1. The CSR system still only rewards based on wins. It will self-correct to adjust to one's assessed skill, but match outcomes (W/L) are still the only manner in which you can increase or decrease your rank.
2. The TS2/MMR system is still primarily based on match outcomes despite the inclusion of individual KPM (and to a lesser degree DPM) influences that can sway some adjustments in opposition of the team adjustment. Their purpose is to further identify personal skill which directly leads to increased predictive accuracy.
3. From a game quality perspective, more accurate skill-based matchmaking (SBMM) is the most critical component. And from an individual rank perspective, rank integrity is the most critical component. These two things are, more or less, being achieved now.

• (primary) win/loss fact and the average MMR of the two teams - i.e. if you win a game you weren't supposed to win, your MMR will jump.
• (secondary) KPM and DPM relative to the MMRs of all players in the game - i.e. if you slay much harder & faster than your MMR predicted given the average skill in the match, your MMR will jump.

Nate00000000000 wrote:

NiCuZn wrote:

Had hoped the refresh would happen before the end of the year, but alas nada.

ZaedynFel wrote:

Our current plans with BTB are as follows:

• Monitor it as we enter the holiday season. If holiday traffic is enough to keep it alive, we’ll leave it up and reconsider its future in January
• Begin work on a refresh. If BTB can hang on long enough, we will see how well it does after a refresh before moving it to a rotational
• If these both fail, then BTB shouldn’t be an exception given how much better every other list has done as a rotational when it starts behaving this way.

ZaedynFel wrote:

iTs Heavies wrote:

ZaedynFel wrote:

Big Team BattleFor a long period of time BTB was a solid social playlist and in fact the minimum popularity bar we used to judge whether a list should stay permanent. Lately, however, it has become near impossible to find matches for around half the day. It appears the bulk of players needed to maintain a healthy list now prefer the Super Fiesta variant, leaving only classic BTB enthusiasts still engaged in the original BTB playlist. We feel it would be more beneficial to those who love BTB to be able to have a good experience with it rather than waiting 5 minutes without a match.

Our current plans with BTB are as follows:

• Monitor it as we enter the holiday season. If holiday traffic is enough to keep it alive, we’ll leave it up and reconsider its future in January
• Begin work on a refresh. If BTB can hang on long enough, we will see how well it does after a refresh before moving it to a rotational
• If these both fail, then BTB shouldn’t be an exception given how much better every other list has done as a rotational when it starts behaving this way.

The population of BTB is low because of a couple of factors which all stem from changes that you guys (343) made starting last year including

1. MMR based matching in a social playlist.

• Pre-game lobbies - For some reason, during the pre-game loading screen, if there is only 15/16 players queued up - THE GAME WONT START and the game rarely finds a 16th player. The result is a 5 minute wait session, crossing our fingers hoping someone gets matched up. I've gone 20 minutes searching and sitting in 15/16 queued lobbies just to play one game. I've actually given up even trying to play solo a few nights because of it.
• If the game does actually start, and someone quits, a new player immediately gets spawned into the game. No waiting, its almost instantaneous. Why? How can the pregame lobby time out completely, but in game puts someone in?

2. Changes to the BR which butchered it. It's not even enjoyable to shoot anymore.

• Do I even need to say more? do competitive players even pick it up in HCS?

3. Lack of variation in game types and maps. When is the last time a refresh was made? For god sake, a refresh bringing back maps that were previously in the playlist would be all it would take. I'm certainly bored to death of waiting 20 minutes to find a game, yet when I do its Dispelled Slayer for the 247th time in a row.

I would really hate to see a playlist that has been so ingrained into the fabric of Halo matchmaking over the last 2 decades, be tossed aside, because of mistakes made by the developer when they were trying to help. Fix the issues that have caused players to abandon BTB, dont just simply get complacent.

On the other hand, if you just dont have the staff, I get it.

Might give Bo4 or RDR2 a try

I disagree. Read my last comment.

BTB has never been strong in H5, regardless of its place in past Halos. We have to look at the audience it has now vs. the past. The average bulk H5 player isn't that interested in BTB and never has been. Not in the presence of Warzone and now BTB SF.

That doesn't mean there isn't a group of folks playing H5 who love it, but that group isn't a core part of H5.

I feel more like the core pop has moved on, and the leftover BTB enthusiast community isn't large enough to sustain the list without changes that invite folks currently happy in other playlists back, as well as the enthusiasts.

Also, I disgrew on the BR. The original BR scared off more of that original pop than it did invite them. Weakening the BR actually resulted in an increase in BTB's pop a year ago that was sustained up until BTB SF.

SECRET FACE wrote:

Maybe make breakout social and rotational? And remove extermination? I think if you reviewed extermination matches you'd find the number of quitters to be quite high. And it's quite difficult to get against all odds and especially unstoppable in extermination.

A breakout playlist that is a mix of only breakout and breakout 2.0 would be awesome. Either ranked or social.

xWisdomCube wrote:

ZaedynFel wrote:

iTs Heavies wrote:

ZaedynFel wrote:

Big Team BattleFor a long period of time BTB was a solid social playlist and in fact the minimum popularity bar we used to judge whether a list should stay permanent. Lately, however, it has become near impossible to find matches for around half the day. It appears the bulk of players needed to maintain a healthy list now prefer the Super Fiesta variant, leaving only classic BTB enthusiasts still engaged in the original BTB playlist. We feel it would be more beneficial to those who love BTB to be able to have a good experience with it rather than waiting 5 minutes without a match.

Our current plans with BTB are as follows:

• Monitor it as we enter the holiday season. If holiday traffic is enough to keep it alive, we’ll leave it up and reconsider its future in January
• Begin work on a refresh. If BTB can hang on long enough, we will see how well it does after a refresh before moving it to a rotational
• If these both fail, then BTB shouldn’t be an exception given how much better every other list has done as a rotational when it starts behaving this way.

Spoiler:

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iTs Heavies wrote:

ZaedynFel wrote:

Big Team BattleFor a long period of time BTB was a solid social playlist and in fact the minimum popularity bar we used to judge whether a list should stay permanent. Lately, however, it has become near impossible to find matches for around half the day. It appears the bulk of players needed to maintain a healthy list now prefer the Super Fiesta variant, leaving only classic BTB enthusiasts still engaged in the original BTB playlist. We feel it would be more beneficial to those who love BTB to be able to have a good experience with it rather than waiting 5 minutes without a match.

Our current plans with BTB are as follows:

• Monitor it as we enter the holiday season. If holiday traffic is enough to keep it alive, we’ll leave it up and reconsider its future in January
• Begin work on a refresh. If BTB can hang on long enough, we will see how well it does after a refresh before moving it to a rotational
• If these both fail, then BTB shouldn’t be an exception given how much better every other list has done as a rotational when it starts behaving this way.

The population of BTB is low because of a couple of factors which all stem from changes that you guys (343) made starting last year including

1. MMR based matching in a social playlist.

• Pre-game lobbies - For some reason, during the pre-game loading screen, if there is only 15/16 players queued up - THE GAME WONT START and the game rarely finds a 16th player. The result is a 5 minute wait session, crossing our fingers hoping someone gets matched up. I've gone 20 minutes searching and sitting in 15/16 queued lobbies just to play one game. I've actually given up even trying to play solo a few nights because of it.
• If the game does actually start, and someone quits, a new player immediately gets spawned into the game. No waiting, its almost instantaneous. Why? How can the pregame lobby time out completely, but in game puts someone in?

2. Changes to the BR which butchered it. It's not even enjoyable to shoot anymore.

• Do I even need to say more? do competitive players even pick it up in HCS?

3. Lack of variation in game types and maps. When is the last time a refresh was made? For god sake, a refresh bringing back maps that were previously in the playlist would be all it would take. I'm certainly bored to death of waiting 20 minutes to find a game, yet when I do its Dispelled Slayer for the 247th time in a row.

I would really hate to see a playlist that has been so ingrained into the fabric of Halo matchmaking over the last 2 decades, be tossed aside, because of mistakes made by the developer when they were trying to help. Fix the issues that have caused players to abandon BTB, dont just simply get complacent.

On the other hand, if you just dont have the staff, I get it.

Might give Bo4 or RDR2 a try

I disagree. Read my last comment.

BTB has never been strong in H5, regardless of its place in past Halos. We have to look at the audience it has now vs. the past. The average bulk H5 player isn't that interested in BTB and never has been. Not in the presence of Warzone and now BTB SF.

That doesn't mean there isn't a group of folks playing H5 who love it, but that group isn't a core part of H5.

I feel more like the core pop has moved on, and the leftover BTB enthusiast community isn't large enough to sustain the list without changes that invite folks currently happy in other playlists back, as well as the enthusiasts.

Also, I disgrew on the BR. The original BR scared off more of that original pop than it did invite them. Weakening the BR actually resulted in an increase in BTB's pop a year ago that was sustained up until BTB SF.

I disagree with you on the BR, I use only the Halo 2 BR in warzone and anything else other than the default version.