Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] MATCHMAKING FEEDBACK UPDATE – November 5

OP ZaedynFel

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ZaedynFel wrote:
KotorBay85 wrote:
Noticed today, loads of Onyx players are getting matched in mid-plat games.

Why??
Even if onyx guy has a bronze on his team he's too good and people just quit.

One game today, my team was a 4 of mid-plat against 2 onyx, 1 plat 3 and a bronze.
Within 2 minutes 2 of my team had quit.
The skill gap is based on who is available. If pop in the list you are playing on dips, you'll get large skill gaps in the match.
Cheers :)

Any idea when updating map rotation for slayer?
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
I forgot to ask about this, but how is it that I'm still matching the same people that I would normally match if that's the case? Does the team balancer use some kind of default MMR matching?
LUKEPOWA wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
I forgot to ask about this, but how is it that I'm still matching the same people that I would normally match if that's the case? Does the team balancer use some kind of default MMR matching?
Per my pieced together understanding from what Josh has said:

Even without the initial tight MMR restriction that would lossen over time provided by the match-maker the team balancer still knows enough to try preventing odds from being beyond a total range of 61:39 via an optimal split.

The match-maker's primary role is to limit the skill-gap between the best and worst players within a match as well as to expand the gap and odds over time. The matchmaker itself be tricked by MMR skill-caps. These caps can lead to matches that possess wider skill-gaps than ideally desired.

For example: players with a MMR of 1300+ may all be seen by the match-maker as possessing a flat 1300 MMR which makes all of them above 1300 more accessible for match-making.

When Josh says there’s been no MMR occurring within BTB I imagine it means that (1) there's no longer a skill-gap that being enforced; meaning, the skill-gap is unlimited. And (2) the search process itself doesn’t start with 50:50 odds which then gets loosened over time to 61:39; instead, it just allows any possible match within the 61:39 odds from the search's onset.

Now, regardless, to what the match-maker is allowed to do, or not do, with MMR, in order to either more easily construct a match, or create a more fair match, the team balancer still knows the players’ real MMR values. And it still tries to feed the match-maker with information to construct an acceptably fair match with what's seen as accessible or available per the chosen data center.

This can, in part, lead to a player facing, and being paired with, similar opponents when the population is low. But, data center restrictions via the Focused and Balanced search selection are also influencial as they too narrow down the available options.

Anyways, if I’m off on this assessment I hope Josh would further clarify.
NightClerk wrote:
Thanks for addressing the trends in WZA.

Bummer FFA's population has struggled, hopefully it picks up around the holidays.

Still cracks me up that Super Fiesta is consistently the most popular playlist.
Cracks you up? The playlist is a blast. If only other playlists were as fun :)
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LUKEPOWA wrote:
Once Thanksgiving break is done, could we get a popularity list to see if BTB improved at all or not?
Just posting this again. Could we get one once New Year's is over with to see how everything did on the holiday break?
Theres this thing that happens with me and my friends where it shows the bars full but it doesn't deploy/let us enter the game until like 3 minutes later
ZaedynFel wrote:
Big Team BattleFor a long period of time BTB was a solid social playlist and in fact the minimum popularity bar we used to judge whether a list should stay permanent. Lately, however, it has become near impossible to find matches for around half the day. It appears the bulk of players needed to maintain a healthy list now prefer the Super Fiesta variant, leaving only classic BTB enthusiasts still engaged in the original BTB playlist. We feel it would be more beneficial to those who love BTB to be able to have a good experience with it rather than waiting 5 minutes without a match.

Our current plans with BTB are as follows:
  • Monitor it as we enter the holiday season. If holiday traffic is enough to keep it alive, we’ll leave it up and reconsider its future in January
  • Begin work on a refresh. If BTB can hang on long enough, we will see how well it does after a refresh before moving it to a rotational
  • If these both fail, then BTB shouldn’t be an exception given how much better every other list has done as a rotational when it starts behaving this way.
I know I'm a bit late but I wanted to put in my two cents anyway. This is what I think could be done instead of removing BTB to increase population.

  • Remove/Loosen MMR - Nevermind I was wrong. Looks like this has been done for a while and it hasn't helped a ton.
  • Revert to the old BR - I honestly don't think I can remember speaking with a single person that prefers the new BR to the old one. It's just not enjoyable to shoot and it makes the whole game feel like a hit registration nightmare. I've spent hours trying to figure it out and it still feels like it's worse in every way to literally every other precision weapon in the game. Not even the pros will touch it.
  • Change to Magnum starts - An alternate solution to the BR problem. In general it would just make everything more enjoyable.
  • Refresh maps/gamemodes - BTB is in dire need of new maps and gamemodes. The ones we have now have been stale for a while and it's long overdue. There are an overabundance of good community made maps so this is the one I'm most hopeful for.
  • Increase EXP payout - Now that it has been revealed that players who hit 152 will be given a special reward in Infinite a lot of players have returned to Halo 5 to grind for the max rank. BTB gives a laughable amount of experience points per game. Why would I play a 15 minute BTB game for 3,500 EXP when I could be playing Warzone and making double that?
I really hope it doesn't come to making BTB rotational. It's a staple of the Halo franchise.
Exenius wrote:
      I know I'm a bit late but I wanted to put in my two cents anyway. This is what I think could be done instead of removing BTB to increase population.
  • Remove/Loosen MMR - I can't help but think that part of the reason why it's impossible to find matches is because the MMR is too strict. It's too the point that it's almost laughable to suggest playing BTB with a group larger than 3 or 4.
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
According to Josh, MMR has long been removed from BTB matchmaking. And it hasn't really helped the playlist's population.
I seem to be having trouble finding matches of any type. I set my matchmaker to balanced, however I’m unable to find games other than slayer and holiday fiesta. Even then the search time is long

Searching at 7 pm today.

Is the population just too low?
Ranzyrr wrote:
I seem to be having trouble finding matches of any type. I set my matchmaker to balanced, however I’m unable to find games other than slayer and holiday fiesta. Even then the search time is long
You should put it on expanded instead.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Ranzyrr wrote:
I seem to be having trouble finding matches of any type. I set my matchmaker to balanced, however I’m unable to find games other than slayer and holiday fiesta. Even then the search time is long
You should put it on expanded instead.
Expanded on my experience with warfront firefight leads to massive lagging. But it’s it gets me a game I will
I think making big team super fiesta a game type within big team battle will do the job and free up an extra space for a new rotational. Would love to see 4v4v4 multi team assualt
eLantern wrote:
BTB is a major core experience of Halo and turning it into a rotational would be a very sad state of affairs.
Agree! Should be permanent.
Chimera30 wrote:
Exenius wrote:
      I know I'm a bit late but I wanted to put in my two cents anyway. This is what I think could be done instead of removing BTB to increase population.
  • Remove/Loosen MMR - I can't help but think that part of the reason why it's impossible to find matches is because the MMR is too strict. It's too the point that it's almost laughable to suggest playing BTB with a group larger than 3 or 4.
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
According to Josh, MMR has long been removed from BTB matchmaking. And it hasn't really helped the playlist's population.
It's the team balancer that prevents high skilled players from matching other teams. High skilled teams cannot find games unless searching on smurfs.

And regardless of skill and the team balancer, I contest that the biggest threat to the BTB population remains to be an internal 343 issue that they have stated they are not willing to put the resources into fixing. The 15/16 pre-game glitch. WHO HAS TIME TO SIT THERE FOR 5 MINUTES STARING AT A SCREEN, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY?
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No se respuesta, solo quiero saber por qué cuando consigues el gungoose tundra no aparece en el inventario ?!!!
I hope BTB can get the love it deserves. I consider it a staple of the series.
Heaviies wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Exenius wrote:
      I know I'm a bit late but I wanted to put in my two cents anyway. This is what I think could be done instead of removing BTB to increase population.
  • Remove/Loosen MMR - I can't help but think that part of the reason why it's impossible to find matches is because the MMR is too strict. It's too the point that it's almost laughable to suggest playing BTB with a group larger than 3 or 4.
ZaedynFel wrote:
BTB hasn't been using MMR for awhile. It hasn't helped.
According to Josh, MMR has long been removed from BTB matchmaking. And it hasn't really helped the playlist's population.
It's the team balancer that prevents high skilled players from matching other teams. High skilled teams cannot find games unless searching on smurfs.

And regardless of skill and the team balancer, I contest that the biggest threat to the BTB population remains to be an internal 343 issue that they have stated they are not willing to put the resources into fixing. The 15/16 pre-game glitch. WHO HAS TIME TO SIT THERE FOR 5 MINUTES STARING AT A SCREEN, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY?
What I what to know for sure is that they put the resources into determining whether or not it is a glitch.

I know that it feels and appears like one, but is it really?

I imagine the issue relates to how the matchmaker re-fires to search for additional people after a match was initially locked-in and progressing to match start.

It’s not clear whether the system is struggling to operate as intended or is operating as intended. I mean, basic matchmaking quality assurances should be up-held. And with those in place maybe there’s just no population currently available to fill the slots.

If it’s discovered to be a true glitch it really ought to take a top priority billing from most other projects. Borrow from the MCC team, hire independent contractors, and maybe grab some necessary member(s) from Infinite to get this solved ASAP.

If it’s discovered to be an issue with quality assurances becoming overly restrictive during the match-maker’s refiring maybe that could be looked at, but I would not necessarily assign it as the top priority for 343i.

I imagine that once a match gets locked-in a data center (dedicated server) has been chosen and if even one player has “Focused” selected it probably means it won’t reset to choose another “acceptable” data center option that may present additional population options based on ping/connection for all.

If everything is working as intended and population truly is the issue. Again, this is relative to the developer’s intended match quality levels. Then the “issue” for 343 is three fold.

1. They can debate lessening the match quality assurances which would be controversial, but perhaps there’s some room for long-term sustain improvement.
2. Focus more on sustain team efforts. Regular freshes can go a long way.
3. And perhaps consider some long-term sustain fixes for the UI and other system foundations for revisiting later when current in-house resources free up or become greater. Think of it as a TU refresh in similar vien to what the MCC is receiving.

These are all lower levels of priority for 343i on the whole, but priorities nonetheless as sustain efforts (from moment of release and on) are vital in building a special franchise.

I know something I’d like to see is better communication from the search process itself (in-game). When hangups occur like the “15/16” issue I want to more clearly see and know what is happening behind the scenes. I’d love to see a more descriptive representation in-game with regards to the systematic operations that ques in more players. I’d also like to see what’s happening in regards to the limitations I’ve placed onto the matchmaker via a preference selection (Focused, Balanced, & Expanded).

Also, for those who don’t want any quality restrictions at all they’re presented with the Customs Browser. People tend to underestimate the potential available to them with that featured tool. With it a player is capable of, at least, trying to create their own acceptable experience at any time given general public interest.
It would be nice to know if it was related to the postgame lobby freezing or not since that's what a lot of people suspect.
But did take me about 20min to get a war zone turbo match
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