If your MMR and CSR are near each other, and if we get you into relatively balanced games, you'll go around +/-15.eLantern wrote:This is precisely why HERE and HERE I discussed things that I feel would help lessen this type of confusion. I assume it's more prevalent within the early goings of a new season, but it can occur at any time within a season if people start late or just don't play super often.ZaedynFel wrote:BTW, the Diamonds on your team are both Onyx players.ZaedynFel wrote:Here's the breakdown.qlimm wrote:GameThis game I went off on two champs and two higher ranked Onyx players. My team had one other Onyx and two diamonds who all went negative. We lost 50-45 and I lost 28 CSR. How could the system think that I was supposed to win that game when we were all ranked below the enemy team?
I have faith in the system, I just want to know its reasoning.
You were a 1573 player and lost to a 1491 MMR team while being on a 1502 MMR team. The combination of losing to a team with a lower MMR both individually and as a team.I don't believe so. It should just mean that it's a bit more volatile than it was under the previous +/-15 & 1 method or the temporary one that existed for a short period of time after the 15 & 1 method. HERE is a general breakdown of the newest method being utilized. You should be able to see how CSR still works toward convergence to MMR over time.qlimm wrote:One more question, if my MMR went up that much and if the game uses MMR to determine CSR movement, does this not mean ranking up will be even more difficult despite the fact I am a lower CSR?ZaedynFel wrote:Yes, MMR and CSR do not run perfectly in sync. This is intentional since MMR doesn't move at all when players aren't actually improving in skill. CSR lets you bounce around your MMR and get lucky ups and unlucky downs.qlimm wrote:So people can be higher ranks but with a lower MMR, as in my lower ranked team had a higher MMR than the higher ranked team? Does that mean the game eventually thinks we would overtake their rank given enough time?ZaedynFel wrote:Here's the breakdown.qlimm wrote:GameThis game I went off on two champs and two higher ranked Onyx players. My team had one other Onyx and two diamonds who all went negative. We lost 50-45 and I lost 28 CSR. How could the system think that I was supposed to win that game when we were all ranked below the enemy team?
I have faith in the system, I just want to know its reasoning.
You were a 1573 player and lost to a 1491 MMR team while being on a 1502 MMR team. The combination of losing to a team with a lower MMR both individually and as a team.
I just can't help but think CatticusFinch never had a chance in that game.
Also, yes, eventually they would converge.
But in this case, Catticus underperformed and so their pre-match MMR which was Onyx dropped to mid-Diamond post-match. But CSR updates use pre-match values.
Your own MMR went from 1476 to 1569 despite the loss (it went up), so you will easily recover that lost CSR as long as you continue to play consistently.
The slowdown only happens if they pull away from each other. So if your MMR is much higher than your CSR, then you won't lose as much for a loss. Though it will be intuitive because if your MMR is higher than your CSR, your opponents will also be better, so it will make sense they you lose less for losing, etc.
I think the current system works pretty well at that. It might be easier if we could show average team MMR per team so you could compare directly to that rather than seeing the individual player CSRs.
I'm actually pretty dubious now about the value of showing the CSR of individual players at all outside of you being able to see your own. You really only need to know the MMR of each team, and your own CSR imo.