Forums / Community / Matchmaking Feedback & Discussion

[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – September 18

OP ZaedynFel

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Blocking

We made a recent change so that blocking a player in Xbox Live no longer affects any of Halo 5’s competitive matchmaking. We did this for several reasons, but, at a high level, it has not had its intended effect in matchmaking. Instead, it was making matchmaking worse overall.

Here are some more specific reasons for those interested.

  • Blocking was being used mostly strategically instead of to avoid harassment. Many of the top teams blocked each other, resulting in the top being unable to play themselves. Instead, they ended up playing lower-skilled teams. This made matchmaking worse. This was not the intention of the feature.
  • Blocking sharded the top unnecessarily. Once we tightened matchmaking just a little bit, the top could barely match anymore because of all the blocking going on.
  • There’s no recourse for blocking. Once you block someone, they can’t match with you forever. If a player’s behavior changes, there’s no way from them to request to be unblocked. There’s no easy way to clean up your block list at all. So over time, matchmaking just got worse and worse for no compelling reason.
  • Matchmaking is improving and continuing to improve. With those improvement, the skill-related reasons for blocking are less compelling. Players shouldn’t have to block each other to avoid hard matches. The matchmaking improvements can and should do that without sharding the population.
  • Blocking for matchmaking reasons is not needed at the mid-skill range since those players rarely see the same people anyways. In the high-skill range, we can’t have blocking since it degrades quality to much, and forces high-skilled players to play vs. much lower-skilled player – also not acceptable.

At the end of the day, the responsibility for good matches from a gameplay POV should not be player filtering, but better matchmaking, which is what we are working on.
ZaedynFel wrote:
competitive matchmaking
As in Ranked and Warzone, but not Social?
Are all modes included in "competitive matchmaking?"

For example, I run into players in Firefight who get their jollies quitting, griefing and killing teammates. Am I now forced to play with these evildoers?
ZaedynFel wrote:
competitive matchmaking
As in Ranked and Warzone, but not Social?
Ranked, Social, and Warzone. I don't think FF.
Just out of curiosity how hard would it be to implement a change into Halo 5 where after a seasonal reset occurred instead of visibly displaying an Unranked CSR that indicated how many matches toward earning your CSR you had to go, you'd actually carry your previous seasonal rank as a place-holder until you completed your placement matches and earned your new Rank? If too difficult for Halo 5 could you consider adopting this for Halo 6?
ZaedynFel wrote:
There’s no recourse for blocking. Once you block someone, they can’t match with you forever. If a player’s behavior changes, there’s no way from them to request to be unblocked. There’s no easy way to clean up your block list at all. So over time, matchmaking just got worse and worse for no compelling reason.
A few other questions:
  1. Are communications still muted from blocked players?
  2. Is there any effort within Xbox Live, or push from 343, to allow better control over blocking?
  3. Are players marked as “avoid me” by the social reputation system now allowed to match with anyone?
Thanks.
ZaedynFel wrote:
There’s no recourse for blocking. Once you block someone, they can’t match with you forever. If a player’s behavior changes, there’s no way from them to request to be unblocked. There’s no easy way to clean up your block list at all. So over time, matchmaking just got worse and worse for no compelling reason.
A few other questions:
  1. Are communications still muted from blocked players?
  2. Is there any effort within Xbox Live, or push from 343, to allow better control over blocking?
  3. Are players marked as “avoid me” by the social reputation system now allowed to match with anyone?
Thanks.
1. This hasn't changed so I assume yes.
2. Xbox Live controls that system, so I don't know for sure.
3. I've heard Xbox Live is going to remove the matchmaking effects of "avoid me", but I don't have anything official on that.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/503a23c8-dba9-4d39-a2db-8e5e4a90277a/players/zippyskippy?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Hey Josh here is another game I wanted to forward you. For basically the same reasons that I have mentioned in prior threads you had started. This game also played slow and the aim was very erratic and hit registration was poor. I always search focus but yet I have games all the time that play like this. And not only does it effect me but team mates also in the same game. I can totally understand that higher pings would have an effect on hit registration but I just dont think it should have an effect on all functions with in the game like it does. Specially being ranked I just dont understand what is going on here. There are countless times where a game will start out slow like this and become a bit better towards the end. Or sometimes just the oppisite. Sad thing is this always seems to happen only to one team in a particular game. There are many times will go 0- 13 before the game settles down and starts counting our kills and becomes more fluid. For some odd reason the first thing this effects is the aim. And hit registration. All this talk about heavy aim I do believe is coming from this issue. Which many dont even know its happening. There are very many definitions of this. Some call it like your playing under water which in reality is the same issue mentioned here. I do hope Josh there is something that can be done about this. My fear though is many wont report this because they just think its normal. Is this possibly an xbox one hardware issue? Im starting to wonder about this with the fact the new xbox one x is being pushed out so quickly. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts to what im saying?

Thanks again Josh. Its really good of you to post on a weekly basis. I enjoy it.
Zippy.
Quote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
Sorry, I lied.

In Social it is in fact 40 seconds.
That's good to know, but does that also apply to JIP games or no? Also, does it only apply to parties of 8 or does it also apply to parties of 7 or 6? If not parties of 7 or 6, then why not? Thanks in advance for any answers.

For this thread's content, I mainly used blocking on dedicated full parties because matching them as a solo player wasn't even remotely close to an even game. They were mainly just slaughters. I hate to say this, but even with these newer changes it still isn't close in my experiences! The games are still blowouts for a variety of reasons and nothing is gonna change that unless you start matching an entire team of medium onyx - champion level solo players against these dedicated full parties which currently isn't close to happening.
Have you guys made it so we can now match In Grifball? We have not been able to find games due to the MMR being so strict ever since the weapon tuning update. We have very high MMR and cannot find matches except for Grifball regulars if we are even lucky to match them. Has this been fixed today? I have not checked yet so just want some confirmation
ZaedynFel wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
There’s no recourse for blocking. Once you block someone, they can’t match with you forever. If a player’s behavior changes, there’s no way from them to request to be unblocked. There’s no easy way to clean up your block list at all. So over time, matchmaking just got worse and worse for no compelling reason.
A few other questions:
  1. Are communications still muted from blocked players?
  2. Is there any effort within Xbox Live, or push from 343, to allow better control over blocking?
  3. Are players marked as “avoid me” by the social reputation system now allowed to match with anyone?
Thanks.
1. This hasn't changed so I assume yes.
2. Xbox Live controls that system, so I don't know for sure.
3. I've heard Xbox Live is going to remove the matchmaking effects of "avoid me", but I don't have anything official on that.
You guys also have the option to opt out of using the "avoid me" feature. Many games do that and it would be nice if you guys would take that out because the reporting of players gets abused as well and we drop in reputation due to being better
I don't know if this appropriate for this thread, but I was wondering if there was anyway we could get the mute fixed. I press the right thumbstick and it doesn't mute the other players that I'm assuming are on my team. It's annoying having to listen to little kids screaming and yelling not to mention the speaker feedback and squelching for the whole game...
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/arena/matches/503a23c8-dba9-4d39-a2db-8e5e4a90277a/players/zippyskippy?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Arena

Hey Josh here is another game I wanted to forward you. For basically the same reasons that I have mentioned in prior threads you had started. This game also played slow and the aim was very erratic and hit registration was poor. I always search focus but yet I have games all the time that play like this. And not only does it effect me but team mates also in the same game. I can totally understand that higher pings would have an effect on hit registration but I just dont think it should have an effect on all functions with in the game like it does. Specially being ranked I just dont understand what is going on here. There are countless times where a game will start out slow like this and become a bit better towards the end. Or sometimes just the oppisite. Sad thing is this always seems to happen only to one team in a particular game. There are many times will go 0- 13 before the game settles down and starts counting our kills and becomes more fluid. For some odd reason the first thing this effects is the aim. And hit registration. All this talk about heavy aim I do believe is coming from this issue. Which many dont even know its happening. There are very many definitions of this. Some call it like your playing under water which in reality is the same issue mentioned here. I do hope Josh there is something that can be done about this. My fear though is many wont report this because they just think its normal. Is this possibly an xbox one hardware issue? Im starting to wonder about this with the fact the new xbox one x is being pushed out so quickly. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts to what im saying?

Thanks again Josh. Its really good of you to post on a weekly basis. I enjoy it.
Zippy.
Yes, we've looked at several of these situations over a few players, and so far it's been the ISP each time. Often, it's an ISP that will look fine during the day, but have high latency spikes in the evening. We've seen them spike as high as 1000 ms, and seen bandwidth on the players drop out on certain ISPs during busy hours, but always on the ISP side and not the data center's.

There isn't much we can do if a player's connection goes that bad in the middle of a match.

In those cases, the other players in the match were fine, and it was only the ones with the weird ISP behavior.

But we're still investigating.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Quote:
ZaedynFelwrote:Sorry, I lied.

In Social it is in fact 40 seconds.
That's good to know, but does that also apply to JIP games or no? Also, does it only apply to parties of 8 or does it also apply to parties of 7 or 6? If not parties of 7 or 6, then why not? Thanks in advance for any answers.

For this thread's content, I mainly used blocking on dedicated full parties because matching them as a solo player wasn't even remotely close to an even game. They were mainly just slaughters. I hate to say this, but even with these newer changes it still isn't close in my experiences! The games are still blowouts for a variety of reasons and nothing is gonna change that unless you start matching an entire team of medium onyx - champion level solo players against these dedicated full parties which currently isn't close to happening.
It's a little close to happening. Probably within a few weeks.

We can't do 7 or 6 because of platform limitations. There's currently no way to say something like, "Match 7s vs. 7s, but also make sure and grab 2 solo players to fill those spots" We can only do "8s vs. 8s" Enabling that would take a ton of work that another team would have to do. We do this sometimes, but in this case, we have something better than that solution in the pipeline anyway that we have more control over, so we're going with that.

JIP is also restricted the same way. You wont JIP into a to8 match unless you waited 40s. We could increase that from 40 to 150s like Ranked, but that would also mean increasing how long you wait for a closer match.
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's a little close to happening. Probably within a few weeks.

We can't do 7 or 6 because of platform limitations. There's currently no way to say something like, "Match 7s vs. 7s, but also make sure and grab 2 solo players to fill those spots" We can only do "8s vs. 8s" Enabling that would take a ton of work that another team would have to do. We do this sometimes, but in this case, we have something better than that solution in the pipeline anyway that we have more control over, so we're going with that.

JIP is also restricted the same way. You wont JIP into a to8 match unless you waited 40s. We could increase that from 40 to 150s like Ranked, but that would also mean increasing how long you wait for a closer match.
That sounds interesting. I look forward to reading about it.

Well that sucks. I've noticed a lot of parties will run with 6-7 people and it still has the same result as if they were a team of 8. Edit: I forgot to add that I'm glad there will be an eventual solution.

During the times when I was using focus, I had to back out of searching usually 2-3 times once I reached the 30-40 second mark to try and avoid parties and then I would find a game during the next search. I wouldn't mind raising it a little bit so I wouldn't have to keep backing out as much although 150 might be a tad too long.
Thanks for the info.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's a little close to happening. Probably within a few weeks.

We can't do 7 or 6 because of platform limitations. There's currently no way to say something like, "Match 7s vs. 7s, but also make sure and grab 2 solo players to fill those spots" We can only do "8s vs. 8s" Enabling that would take a ton of work that another team would have to do. We do this sometimes, but in this case, we have something better than that solution in the pipeline anyway that we have more control over, so we're going with that.

JIP is also restricted the same way. You wont JIP into a to8 match unless you waited 40s. We could increase that from 40 to 150s like Ranked, but that would also mean increasing how long you wait for a closer match.
That sounds interesting. I look forward to reading about it.

Well that sucks. I've noticed a lot of parties will run with 6-7 people and it still has the same result as if they were a team of 8.

During the times when I was using focus, I had to back out of searching usually 2-3 times once I reached the 30-40 second mark to try and avoid parties and then I would find a game during the next search. I wouldn't mind raising it a little bit so I wouldn't have to keep backing out as much although 150 might be a tad too long.

Thanks for the info.
Why not introduce a button command within the search process to enable a re-start/reset on the search process, so that way people don't need to back out of the current UI screen and re-enter it to begin the search process over again? A timer could also be present which would indicate how long you've been searching for.
eLantern wrote:
LUKEPOWA wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's a little close to happening. Probably within a few weeks.

We can't do 7 or 6 because of platform limitations. There's currently no way to say something like, "Match 7s vs. 7s, but also make sure and grab 2 solo players to fill those spots" We can only do "8s vs. 8s" Enabling that would take a ton of work that another team would have to do. We do this sometimes, but in this case, we have something better than that solution in the pipeline anyway that we have more control over, so we're going with that.

JIP is also restricted the same way. You wont JIP into a to8 match unless you waited 40s. We could increase that from 40 to 150s like Ranked, but that would also mean increasing how long you wait for a closer match.
That sounds interesting. I look forward to reading about it.

Well that sucks. I've noticed a lot of parties will run with 6-7 people and it still has the same result as if they were a team of 8.

During the times when I was using focus, I had to back out of searching usually 2-3 times once I reached the 30-40 second mark to try and avoid parties and then I would find a game during the next search. I wouldn't mind raising it a little bit so I wouldn't have to keep backing out as much although 150 might be a tad too long.

Thanks for the info.
Why not introduce a button command within the search process to enable a re-start/reset on the search process, so that way people don't need to back out of the current UI screen and re-enter it to begin the search process over again? A timer could also be present which would indicate how long you've been searching for.
Or this (if we're brainstorming):

"We found a match, but it's against a to8. Want to play? We anticipate a non to8 match will be available within 4 minutes"
I'd wait for that match, but I'd be disappointed if it was a party of 7 instead. I wonder if that kind of thing would be like showing population numbers? Most people would probably avoid the lower population playlist, or in this case the full party.
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Abolish U wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
eLantern wrote:
LUKEPOWA wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
It's a little close to happening. Probably within a few weeks.

We can't do 7 or 6 because of platform limitations. There's currently no way to say something like, "Match 7s vs. 7s, but also make sure and grab 2 solo players to fill those spots" We can only do "8s vs. 8s" Enabling that would take a ton of work that another team would have to do. We do this sometimes, but in this case, we have something better than that solution in the pipeline anyway that we have more control over, so we're going with that.

JIP is also restricted the same way. You wont JIP into a to8 match unless you waited 40s. We could increase that from 40 to 150s like Ranked, but that would also mean increasing how long you wait for a closer match.
That sounds interesting. I look forward to reading about it.

Well that sucks. I've noticed a lot of parties will run with 6-7 people and it still has the same result as if they were a team of 8.

During the times when I was using focus, I had to back out of searching usually 2-3 times once I reached the 30-40 second mark to try and avoid parties and then I would find a game during the next search. I wouldn't mind raising it a little bit so I wouldn't have to keep backing out as much although 150 might be a tad too long.

Thanks for the info.
Why not introduce a button command within the search process to enable a re-start/reset on the search process, so that way people don't need to back out of the current UI screen and re-enter it to begin the search process over again? A timer could also be present which would indicate how long you've been searching for.
Or this (if we're brainstorming):

"We found a match, but it's against a to8. Want to play? We anticipate a non to8 match will be available within 4 minutes"
Grifball Information please. The update has made it unplayable
Spamming won't get you an answer. Stop please.
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