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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – September 25

OP ZaedynFel

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I mean....that's pretty crazy that I can't find a single fiesta match for the past 2 days or so.
Well, i've tried playing super fiesta three times a day for the last three days and I have not been able to play a single match. I keep getting an error saying that there are no matches available or something like that.
I mean....that's pretty crazy that I can't find a single fiesta match for the past 2 days or so.
Your issues coincide directly with the introduction of the Halo 3 anniversary playlist, launched on 9/25. Josh has said that much of the population that used to play Super Fiesta is currently in that playlist. As with any playlist update, new stuff draws alot of attention at first. After awhile, things should go back to normal. Maybe over the next few days, people will migrate back to other playlists like Super Fiesta. Be patient and keep trying.

Or, you know, play another game type. That's always an option.
Just searched Big Team Battle during two different days with a full team. Both times our party of 8 eventually ran into a "brick wall" that would simply not allow us to get a game. We searched for 10min+ and it would just error out every time. People eventually just stopped playing and we disbanded the lobby. I normally play with these guys all the time with very little matchmaking search issues. Frustrating, but I'm hopeful that changes are on the way that look at BTB as the unique playlist that it is (8v8) and that 4v4 matchmaking settings aren't "copy/pasted" over to the BTB playlist.
I am currently solo queuing with expanded settings and cannot find a single game of warzone. I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
I am currently solo queuing with expanded settings and cannot find a single game of warzone. I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
I haven’t been able to find one for at least a couple of hours. Tried solo and with one other friend. Firefight works fine for me too.
I am currently solo queuing with expanded settings and cannot find a single game of warzone. I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
Same for me. Same for Precellence on his stream. Warzone list is broken right now.
I wonder if warzone participation has dropped since the MMR changes (I don't see how not), and if that's a good metric to say whether they were bad or not. The games I get are good but there are just so few of them that I hardly play.
Just searched Big Team Battle during two different days with a full team. Both times our party of 8 eventually ran into a "brick wall" that would simply not allow us to get a game. We searched for 10min+ and it would just error out every time. People eventually just stopped playing and we disbanded the lobby. I normally play with these guys all the time with very little matchmaking search issues. Frustrating, but I'm hopeful that changes are on the way that look at BTB as the unique playlist that it is (8v8) and that 4v4 matchmaking settings aren't "copy/pasted" over to the BTB playlist.
When the additional changes that Josh has spoken about come down the line you should see improvements in this area. Those changes should facilitate the removal of full party restrictions that limit the search process for full fireteams. The matchmaker will appropriately factor and account for more information that'll better balance opponents against one another.
ZaedynFel wrote:
Unfortunately, this means longer wait times for better players, like it does in almost every other competitive game in the world, and it results in the majority of the players sticking around and playing more.
I forgot to mention earlier, but don't a lot of these games have a more healthy population though? It can make them stick around and play more, but the difference is they aren't waiting 10 minutes to find a game. Lack of finding a game can also cause people to leave. I get that H5 is in a tough spot though with balancing things and all that. Hopefully, it will get better like eLantern pointed out in his post.
ZaedynFel wrote:
There's definitely a trade-off....

So it's a balance.
I get all that, but your previous post made it seem like higher skilled players were doing nothing but stomping on weaker players, dominating the game and causing newbs to uninstall their game. Yeah, that can happen, but I just wanted to point out that it's not always like that when it comes to higher skilled players that don't play in parties which is what I was trying to get at in my previous post.
I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
I don't think Firefight uses skill restrictions which is why it's easy to find games.
Chimera30 wrote:
Well, i've tried playing super fiesta three times a day for the last three days and I have not been able to play a single match. I keep getting an error saying that there are no matches available or something like that.
I mean....that's pretty crazy that I can't find a single fiesta match for the past 2 days or so.
Your issues coincide directly with the introduction of the Halo 3 anniversary playlist, launched on 9/25. Josh has said that much of the population that used to play Super Fiesta is currently in that playlist. As with any playlist update, new stuff draws alot of attention at first. After awhile, things should go back to normal. Maybe over the next few days, people will migrate back to other playlists like Super Fiesta. Be patient and keep trying.

Or, you know, play another game type. That's always an option.
But.We.Can't.Get.Into.Any.Gametypes.At.All.
ZaedynFel wrote:
UTH OYE wrote:
Whatever - Just fix Super Fiesta
Nothing has changed in Super Fiesta, nor in how we matchmake for Super Fiesta.

What has changed, however, is that H3 Classic is super popular with Super Fiesta players.

Once the newness of the H3 wears off and the pop settles, it should heal itself.

But we've got our eye on it.

When playlists drop in matchmakability, it's usually worse to keep them up all the time, and better to put them into rotationals so they get focused on when they're around.

Up till recently, Super Fiesta has been super popular, and that wouldn't have been a consideration, and it still mostly isn't. But we'll see if it's pop stabilizes.
in the last 3 days i wasn't able to play a single match in super fiesta, like other friends. On other game types like slayer, swat, btb, breakout (after some initial struggles) matchmaking runs fine, but Super Fiesta seems dead. Thinking about how popular it is, do you exclude that there is any problem at all? Matchmaking struggle on SF seems really strange.
Fun night in BTB:

Focused: unable to match, unable to match
Balanced: unable to match, unable to match
Expanded: unable to match, unable to match, unable to match, unable to match, unable to match

This has been my main playlist since H2 and I couldn't play a single game..... If this continues, I guess I'll just have play on a million smurfs since this is ridiculous.

Why not just keep the MMR the way it was until the new system that you mentioned in the OP is in place? We've been playing uneven teams for the most part in Social since the game came out and I'm sure we'll survive another few weeks of it until then. Blocking is turned off now so parties will play other parties as well.

Edit: I'm reading other parts of the forum and it might be some server issue as a lot of other people aren't able to find games in different playlists as well. I hope that's the case cause I don't wanna make a bunch of smurfs.
I finally had some time to sit and concentrate with your thread. Of course I looked at it on Monday, but I immediately realized it would take a little more concentration than sitting with my phone and reading it randomly at some point during the day. Anyway, I was pretty happy with myself thinking I fully understood what you were talking about until...

eLantern wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
(4x2.0 = 8 vs. 1.0x2 = 4)
Just a quick math correction for you.

That 2 within the 1x2 should be a 4 (number of players) which is how you would get your outcome of 4 in the equation of SD times Number of Players equals Four (_x_
...yeah I get it but I don't get it.

The main thing I am understanding after reading this whole thread is. It's a good day to be an average, solo player. I appreciate all the effort you and your team are still putting into this game. It seems that even though my wait time has increased slightly the amount of close matches has increased, and that is a very, very welcome change.
ZaedynFel wrote:
[Basically, no Ranks and no Matchmaking makes people like me happy]
While I understand your concerns, and totally understand why they make people in your skill and game type happy, they don't make the majority of players happy.

When you say, "make halo for the players" you have to realize that players have widely varying preferences, and, in fact, most of them do not want the same things that you want, and do not ask for the same things that you do.

You've suggested we should remove Ranks from the game. The vast majority of our players like Ranks, so removing them would not be making "halo for the players"

You've suggested we should make your matchmaking time just as fast as everyone elses', but that would mean making matchmaking bad for a large group of players that is also not you, and does not want to get owned by you. When we allow good players to destroy the weaker ones, the weaker ones quit faster and play less. If that keeps happening, you'll be stuck playing with "the 3%" anyways.

You say you want to not have to "try my best every match"

Well, neither do players worse than you. Are you saying that since you are "better" you deserve to dong on players worse than you, forcing them to try much harder than you do every match in order to play at all?

Those players also paid the "same price" for the game as you, and they do not want you to "own" them so you can "relax" while you play.

It has to be fair up and down the chain.

Unfortunately, this means longer wait times for better players, like it does in almost every other competitive game in the world, and it results in the majority of the players sticking around and playing more.

Matchmaking is basically a zero sum game. There's usually no way for me to give everyone exactly what they want without hurting another large group of players, so we pick the best compromise which is to aim for as fair as we can for everyone.
I understand your point is to be fair and I'll note your sarcasm as misguided.

I am not saying removing ranks, I'm saying remove the principles in place that divide the community in your ranking system.
Rather than your ranking being performance driven and riddled with problems at the higher end of the ranks such as low population, (in the diamond,onyx and champ levels) Smurf accounts polluting the lower ranks (silver,gold,platinum) just to name a few. Not to mention the issues that player have on the mid level trying to dig themselves out of this lower ranks.

The intentions of the ranks was an awesome idea but has presented a magnitude of problems, one of many being the isolation and excessively large wait times that come with being at those levels..
Not because I myself would count myself amoung the select few players in that situation, but because i do have friends that have been in this situation and I've seen it happen on a very personal level.

You mention the intention is to keep things fair, I also understand that. If I was either diamond, onyx or champ and had to deal with exceedingly large matching times (assuming one is even possible) or simply ignore the fact that matchmaking doesn't already bring said players into matches with lower tier players already to "compromise"....look at the massive amount of alternative accounts that are created? Do you guys truely believe your sparing anyone from a loss? I've seen silver's play like champs...and that's not an exaggeration.

I feel as tho introducing a concept that rewards player based on experience rather than individual skill gets everybody involved, because players are being punished for being good at the game...and that's an undeniable fact!

Sure ranks are awesome, it's something to be truly proud of, if bullets dont become random and we're going for pure skill and isnt large enough to divide players into each individual sub rank they fit into things should be reevaluated.
That's not wrong to bring up.

Plus if you implement a rank system based off something else, now everyone in time could achieve it. Rather than a select isolated few, without all the isolation or need to generate alternative accounts that diminish the ranks anyway...which is also an undeniable fact...

I'm sorry if I hurt feelings but it's the truth.

I referenced the stress produced by "only" playing players of similar skill to your own. Not because I want to relax. But because in theory the concept should work, except in reality it does not work.
The point was to mention how stress producing factors attribute to negative player sentiment. But that went whoosh on you I think.

But if everyone was in one large diverse but equal pool for match making and mmr was divided up equally you would produce the same results as you have no without the headache...plus the matching times would be driven way down and the negative player sentiment would dissolve.

Think of how many players that will NEVER obtain champion level...based on skill alone...or how many people are champion but cannot play on their main account because the matching times are insane.

Think of how many people hate that a WIN is the only deciding factor in ranking up. Knowing you might have had one of the best performances of your life and just lost.

Sure in a match you'll have alphas destroying players of lesser skill, but let's not pretend it doent already happen, we don't live in a bubble.

I understand that ots impossible to make everyone happy, but it is possible to make things fair.
Thing are already unfair. Am I the only one who sees it?...

Nerfing the weapons will handicap the high end players and silly up the upper tier ranks not to mention produce the same effect for a new player as now it would require even more effort to produce a kill...that also is zero sum.
It almost as tho you guys are in a tug of war between this game being either competitive or not...

If the intentions of needing the weapons was some silly plan to tighten up the skills, why not just look at why things are divided in the first place and start there...

Try to take the things I'm saying as a combination of opinions I've gathered from 2 years of playing halo 5, and not just me trying to strike of an arguement with a dev. I'm providing you with facts here, not bias opinion
ZaedynFel wrote:
[Basically, no Ranks and no Matchmaking makes people like me happy]
[Basically "the game would be fair without ranks and loose matchmaking, that would work out fine for most people and they'd have fun, and MM times would be short]I understand that ots impossible to make everyone happy, but it is possible to make things fair.
Thing are already unfair. Am I the only one who sees it?...
While I agree with you that the current system has issues, and "unable to match" errors in social playlists at the moment are a big one, a lot of players would disagree with loads of your other claims and proposals. For example:

  1. Lots of players love skill ranks. If you want to take pride in an "experience based rank" that's what your SR is for! It's prominently visible in postgame lobbies.
  2. Tight matchmaking is often very appreciated in ranked playlists, at many skill levels, even if that means slightly longer wait times. There are dozens of posts in these MM feedback threads that say just that.
  3. Efforts at "fair" matchmaking in social playlists may really make the game more fun for average and weak players (there are a lot of them, too). If those players enjoy the game more, they'll play more, and hopefully that keeps the playlist populations strong for everyone! the effect bubbles up somewhat to the top tier too if the playlists have healthy populations of average players. We all agree that there's a balance here, and if you're too restrictive the top players will be "unable to match". That's a delicate line to draw either way.
  4. All available evidence suggests that basically eliminating skill-based MMR matchmaking (as you propose) would make match quality a lot worse for everyone. Way more blowouts.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
ZaedynFel wrote:
[Basically, no Ranks and no Matchmaking makes people like me happy]
[Basically "the game would be fair without ranks and loose matchmaking, that would work out fine for most people and they'd have fun, and MM times would be short]I understand that ots impossible to make everyone happy, but it is possible to make things fair.
Thing are already unfair. Am I the only one who sees it?...
While I agree with you that the current system has issues, and "unable to match" errors in social playlists at the moment are a big one, a lot of players would disagree with loads of your other claims and proposals. For example:

  1. Lots of players love skill ranks. If you want to take pride in an "experience based rank" that's what your SR is for! It's prominently visible in postgame lobbies.
  2. Tight matchmaking is often very appreciated in ranked playlists, at many skill levels, even if that means slightly longer wait times.
  3. Efforts at "fair" matchmaking in social playlists may really make the game more fun for average and weak players (there are a lot of them, too). If those players enjoy the game more, they'll play more, and hopefully that keeps the playlist populations strong for everyone! the effect bubbles up somewhat to the top tier too if the playlists have healthy populations of average players. We all agree that there's a balance here, and if you're too restrictive the top players will be "unable to match". That's a delicate line to draw either way.
  4. All available evidence suggests that basically eliminating skill-based MMR matchmaking (as you propose) would make match quality a lot worse for everyone. Way more blowouts.
Yes, the current system if it has a healthy pool of players works. But it is evident that that is not the case as of recently.

I understand making modifications is necessary, but is nerfing weapons moral to produce quality matches?

I understand the concept of the ranks and what it aspires to achieve, but it is undeniably polluted with upper tier talent on alternative accounts...i encourage to ask the developer why it thinks that's happening.

It isn't doing it's job because there is a problem.
Players suffer blowouts anyway...

I offered "my" solution to be discussed, in interest of brainstorming a solution that better suits everyone.
Of course i know my opinion isn't the best idea, but clearly we could benefit and retain players if something was done about it.

Seems like you get what I'm saying.
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half (or all!) your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also. And also preferably a system to keep you from matching the same team more than 2x in a row (unless maybe you search expanded).

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.

One neat idea now too, is that top teams of 12 could now organize WZ scrims. just search at the same time as another 12-man you want to match, and you might match them. That could be super fun and competitive.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also.

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.
How much different would this question sound if ranks weren't a thing?
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also.

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.
How much different would this question sound if ranks weren't a thing?
Ranks aren't a thing in WZ. I don't understand your post.
Chimera30 wrote:
Well, i've tried playing super fiesta three times a day for the last three days and I have not been able to play a single match. I keep getting an error saying that there are no matches available or something like that.
I mean....that's pretty crazy that I can't find a single fiesta match for the past 2 days or so.
Your issues coincide directly with the introduction of the Halo 3 anniversary playlist, launched on 9/25. Josh has said that much of the population that used to play Super Fiesta is currently in that playlist. As with any playlist update, new stuff draws alot of attention at first. After awhile, things should go back to normal. Maybe over the next few days, people will migrate back to other playlists like Super Fiesta. Be patient and keep trying.

Or, you know, play another game type. That's always an option.
But.We.Can't.Get.Into.Any.Gametypes.At.All.
Pretty much this.

Before the last couple of days, I could get into matchmaking for all modes quite easily.
Now I'm having a pretty difficult time finding games in various modes, including Arena and Warzone gametypes.
If the populations for certain game modes really are that low, wouldn't you want to temporarily remove them to consolidate the populations?
Either that or there's just something wrong with the matchmaking for me or as a whole.
I dunno.

It's just weird, I've never had an issue with finding games before this past update. :/
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