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[Locked] Matchmaking Feedback Update – September 25

OP ZaedynFel

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Last night 1am eastern i couldn't find anything. now 11am when its usually not busy I'm finding matches easily. i think something was screwed up with the servers last night
Nathan CTF wrote:
Last night 1am eastern i couldn't find anything. now 11am when its usually not busy I'm finding matches easily. i think something was screwed up with the servers last night
There were some issues with Warzone matchmaking, that should be resolved now
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also.

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.
How much different would this question sound if ranks weren't a thing?
Ranks aren't a thing in WZ. I don't understand your post.
Ranks offer a point of reference to skill, a way to measure yours against others.
Another reason as I've mentioned above. Ranks provided specific example of how good someone is which gets stigmatized by the entire community. So much so that most people don't desire to play against them.

Then in which case they smurf...thus making ranks irrelevant.

You mention ranks as a means to compare, but if they simply didmt exist you comment would probably look a lot like.
"I don't want to play good teams, some are obviously better than mine. My team is average, I'm an average player and now I can't block these better teams so I cant match teams more on my level. How can I avoid playing better players match after match"

But the problem is: everyone blocks anyone that beats them...period...

**not saying your saying that or intending that specifically...
Why can't I match anyone after this update? Have tried every playlist. I can only occasionally find a game after quite some time in Halo 3 classic and only warzone firefight seems fine.
You know, if there are server issues preventing matches, it might be a good idea to say something about it instead of letting us spend an hour sitting in search for no reason. Just a thought
It's upsetting not to being able to match in Warzone at all, when it is well into the day (12:30pm EST). Warzone is not meant to be HCS, it is a social playlist. I am concerned this high prioritization of tight matchmaking is actually hastening the demise of the game as the most active "core" players are forced to leave.

Josh, do you think it might be a good idea to loosen the Player to Player MMR Gap for WZ, at least when the ability to restrict Team MMR Gap comes out? So a wider range of skills in the game, but the teams of 12 are still balanced. I obviously don't know the details of if that could work or not, but I'm hopeful that could be a solution that leads to balanced teams while still allowing high level players to match. I know there was never this issue of not finding WZ games during the day before the tighter MMR restrictions that went into effect last Monday.
It's upsetting not to being able to match in Warzone at all, when it is well into the day (12:30pm EST). Warzone is not meant to be HCS, it is a social playlist. I am concerned this high prioritization of tight matchmaking is actually hastening the demise of the game as the most active "core" players are forced to leave.

Josh, do you think it might be a good idea to loosen the Player to Player MMR Gap for WZ, at least when the ability to restrict Team MMR Gap comes out? So a wider range of skills in the game, but the teams of 12 are still balanced. I obviously don't know the details of if that could work or not, but I'm hopeful that could be a solution that leads to balanced teams while still allowing high level players to match. I know there was never this issue of not finding WZ games during the day before the tighter MMR restrictions that went into effect last Monday.
Excellent idea! Warzone and halo 5s population was much better off without so many restrictions or limits in terms of who matches who based on skill...
I'm all for this!
Honestly, if this continues (as in not being able to find games in modes I normally play in -- I mean, I could find games easily almost anytime just prior to this update), I'm inclined to just uninstall this game in the meantime.
I do hope there's a fix soon if this is an issue for players.
PSA - There does seem to be something going on with WZ. From Josh's twitter:
Quote:
We're aware of an issue affecting Warzone matchmaking, we have an update incoming, but no ETA yet.
And just so y'all know, whatever is causing the issue is not related to tighter MMR restrictions in WZ matchmaking. It's something else.
We are investigating issues affecting a few of our playlists right now. This issue is so far separate from any recent MMR changes.
It's upsetting not to being able to match in Warzone at all, when it is well into the day (12:30pm EST). Warzone is not meant to be HCS, it is a social playlist. I am concerned this high prioritization of tight matchmaking is actually hastening the demise of the game as the most active "core" players are forced to leave.

Josh, if you haven't already, you might want to check on the number of matches being played per day (and at various times of day) since this latest update. I wonder, since a lot of the high-volume skilled WZ players can't find matches (and have left the playlist to some extent), if the total number of games played has gone down, even if more players are playing? That would also decrease MM quality i suspect.

RzR J3ST3R wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also.

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.
How much different would this question sound if ranks weren't a thing?
Ranks aren't a thing in WZ. I don't understand your post.
Ranks offer a point of reference to skill, a way to measure yours against others.
Another reason as I've mentioned above. Ranks provided specific example of how good someone is which gets stigmatized by the entire community. So much so that most people don't desire to play against them.

Then in which case they smurf...thus making ranks irrelevant.

You mention ranks as a means to compare, but if they simply didmt exist you comment would probably look a lot like.
"I don't want to play good teams, some are obviously better than mine. My team is average, I'm an average player and now I can't block these better teams so I cant match teams more on my level. How can I avoid playing better players match after match"

But the problem is: everyone blocks anyone that beats them...period...

**not saying your saying that or intending that specifically...
Sorry, but you're misinterpreting my whole point. Let me try again, and be more clear. Let's say I've got a WZ MMR of 2.0 (mine is probably a fair bit higher but let's just assume 2.0), and I'm playing solo or with a few 2.0 MMR friends in a fireteam. There's also a To12 (or maybe 9-10 people) searching together, who all have MMRs in the 5+ range, so they're much better than us. But the Matchmaking system treats them as having MMR 2.0 to find a game (Josh has said that's what happens), so all the people with actual 2.0 MMRs (including me and my fireteam) get pulled in to play in a match with the actual 5.0 kids in a fireteam. So the game ends up being a bunch of 2.0 MMR kids vs a bunch of 5.0 MMR kids, and it's a blowout (and knowing how some of these teams roll, quite possibly a farm).

To a point, this is all expected, since even the 2.0 MMR kids are "good" and need to match other good people, so I expect we'd occasionally match those ultra-high MMR kids and get rocked. BUT, I'm wondering if 2.0 MMR kids (like me in this example) are going to get constantly pulled into mismatched games against big fireteams of 5.0 MMR kids, because those 5.0 guys can't find matches easily and me and my 2.0 MMR friends are the closest thing around, so we get shafted.

Just wondering if there's a mechanism so that we also get to play winnable games at least half the time.
Glad it's some kind of server issue and not MMR related. From the tweet, I'm curious as to which playlist got "untightened"?
stckrboy wrote:
To add to the above post:
Quote:
Yes, that's another issue affecting a few specific playlists that we are investigating right now, and not linked to any MMR changes.
Quote:
yep something's awry, folks have been working on it overnight. hoping they're able to get it sorted asap, thanks for flagging
Last night my fireteam (once it reached 4 members) could no longer find games in any social playlist or WZ (did not try ranked). We dropped each individual one at a time to see if it was a certain connection but it was not. We tried without party chat to no avail. If we searched solo we could find games immediately in any playlist.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
It's upsetting not to being able to match in Warzone at all, when it is well into the day (12:30pm EST). Warzone is not meant to be HCS, it is a social playlist. I am concerned this high prioritization of tight matchmaking is actually hastening the demise of the game as the most active "core" players are forced to leave.

Josh, if you haven't already, you might want to check on the number of matches being played per day (and at various times of day) since this latest update. I wonder, since a lot of the high-volume skilled WZ players can't find matches (and have left the playlist to some extent), if the total number of games played has gone down, even if more players are playing? That would also decrease MM quality i suspect.

RzR J3ST3R wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Hi Josh,

If that change goes live where 12-man WZ fireteams are allowed, and top players are capped at a MMR of 2.0 for matching purposes, does that mean that if a champ-tier 12-man is searching (guys who all have MMRs in the 5.0+ range) is going to pull much weaker 2.0 MMR players into their game, every game? Say I'm a 2.0 MMR player, will I find myself pulled into this lobby against them for a large portion of my games? Obviously there's no getting around the fact that 2.0 MMR players are going to match them, sometimes, and that's fine. But will the 2.0 MMR players (or a 12-man of 2.0 MMR players) ALSO match against slightly lower skill players, so they don't get run over every game?

I'm envisioning a scenario where, with blocking turned off, you can't avoid matching the same champ-tier 12-man for around half your games, whether you're searching solo or in a fireteam with 2.0 MMR players. It's almost like you need the matchmaker to account for the recent games played, and if a player (or team) has recently gone against higher or equal MMR teams, give them a chance to play lower MMR teams half the time also.

You probably also have this issue in ranked playlists now, where Onyx 1600 kids may be matching champ fireteams on the reg.
How much different would this question sound if ranks weren't a thing?
Ranks aren't a thing in WZ. I don't understand your post.
Ranks offer a point of reference to skill, a way to measure yours against others.
Another reason as I've mentioned above. Ranks provided specific example of how good someone is which gets stigmatized by the entire community. So much so that most people don't desire to play against them.

Then in which case they smurf...thus making ranks irrelevant.

You mention ranks as a means to compare, but if they simply didmt exist you comment would probably look a lot like.
"I don't want to play good teams, some are obviously better than mine. My team is average, I'm an average player and now I can't block these better teams so I cant match teams more on my level. How can I avoid playing better players match after match"

But the problem is: everyone blocks anyone that beats them...period...

**not saying your saying that or intending that specifically...
Sorry, but you're misinterpreting my whole point. Let me try again, and be more clear. Let's say I've got a WZ MMR of 2.0 (mine is probably a fair bit higher but let's just assume 2.0), and I'm playing solo or with a few 2.0 MMR friends in a fireteam. There's also a To12 (or maybe 9-10 people) searching together, who all have MMRs in the 5+ range, so they're much better than us. But the Matchmaking system treats them as having MMR 2.0 to find a game (Josh has said that's what happens), so all the people with actual 2.0 MMRs (including me and my fireteam) get pulled in to play in a match with the actual 5.0 kids in a fireteam. So the game ends up being a bunch of 2.0 MMR kids vs a bunch of 5.0 MMR kids, and it's a blowout (and knowing how some of these teams roll, quite possibly a farm).

To a point, this is all expected, since even the 2.0 MMR kids are "good" and need to match other good people, so I expect we'd occasionally match those ultra-high MMR kids and get rocked. BUT, I'm wondering if 2.0 MMR kids (like me in this example) are going to get constantly pulled into mismatched games against big fireteams of 5.0 MMR kids, because those 5.0 guys can't find matches easily and me and my 2.0 MMR friends are the closest thing around, so we get shafted.

Just wondering if there's a mechanism so that we also get to play winnable games at least half the time.
I understand what your saying, and I know exactly what your talking about. I've been on the receiving end and lost...load back in pull the same team and still lose...at that point your like "forget these dudes"

Just back out of matching and let them air into another match....then jump back into matching

As teams grow back up, I imagine this would be less frequent of a problem. But off the start I can definetly see this being an issue...

Just take the loss and move on with life...

Warzone would be much better if it was played like strongholds and cores were eliminated entirely...
It would make the losses less severe
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Sorry, but you're misinterpreting my whole point. Let me try again, and be more clear. Let's say I've got a WZ MMR of 2.0 (mine is probably a fair bit higher but let's just assume 2.0), and I'm playing solo or with a few 2.0 MMR friends in a fireteam. There's also a To12 (or maybe 9-10 people) searching together, who all have MMRs in the 5+ range, so they're much better than us. But the Matchmaking system treats them as having MMR 2.0 to find a game (Josh has said that's what happens), so all the people with actual 2.0 MMRs (including me and my fireteam) get pulled in to play in a match with the actual 5.0 kids in a fireteam. So the game ends up being a bunch of 2.0 MMR kids vs a bunch of 5.0 MMR kids, and it's a blowout (and knowing how some of these teams roll, quite possibly a farm).

To a point, this is all expected, since even the 2.0 MMR kids are "good" and need to match other good people, so I expect we'd occasionally match those ultra-high MMR kids and get rocked. BUT, I'm wondering if 2.0 MMR kids (like me in this example) are going to get constantly pulled into mismatched games against big fireteams of 5.0 MMR kids, because those 5.0 guys can't find matches easily and me and my 2.0 MMR friends are the closest thing around, so we get shafted.

Just wondering if there's a mechanism so that we also get to play winnable games at least half the time.
Dr. Menke said there is going to be a maximum skill gap of 5.0 MMR between teams, or they just won't match. So you will have at least decent allies by necessity. Also the matchmaker only truncates MMR at 2.0 to select players, then balances the teams with full MMR.

https://twitter.com/joshua_menke/status/907818007858003968
I am currently solo queuing with expanded settings and cannot find a single game of warzone. I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
I've searched expanded for the past two days and couldn't find a match for WZ, or WZA. I really hope this stuff gets fixed soon. At this point I really don't care who gets put on my team, as long as I can play the game.
I am currently solo queuing with expanded settings and cannot find a single game of warzone. I managed to join a warzone firefight, but have yet to find a warzone match. Is this an issue everyone is having?
I've searched expanded for the past two days and couldn't find a match for WZ, or WZA. I really hope this stuff gets fixed soon. At this point I really don't care who gets put on my team, as long as I can play the game.
On your main account do you play with a team in any playlist? Just wondering....

Do you have and alternative account? Are you experiencing the same issue? Just wondering

I mentioned that I was having this issue with my main account but not at all on my alternate account....
I literally couldn't load into any games on my main account. So much so that I quit playing entirely...
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Dr. Menke said there is going to be a maximum skill gap of 5.0 MMR between teams, or they just won't match. So you will have at least decent allies by necessity. Also the matchmaker only truncates MMR at 2.0 to select players, then balances the teams with full MMR.

https://twitter.com/joshua_menke/status/907818007858003968
Yes, I understand all this. But if a To12 is searching together, and all have MMR around 5.0, they will have an MMR of 24 (12*2) for matching purposes, even if their true MMR is 60 (12*5). Let's say there are only ~20 other players in the playlist with MMR greater than 2.0, while the To12 is searching. Will a subset of those 20 players with 2.0 MMR constantly match the To12, over and over?

I'd imagine that the To12 will be sitting in a lobby waiting to match for many minutes since there aren't many other high MMR players, so as soon as enough solo players with MMR > 2 start searching, they'll get pulled in against the To12. At that point, there's no way the team balancer can split up the To12, so you'll get a game with MMR 60 vs. MMR 24. That's fine on occasion, but I'm asking Josh if the mechanics of the player selection is such that you can't match that same To12 over and over?

It's also complicated because there are probably cases where you (Our Protagonist) and I would actually LIKE to try and match 12-mans, several times in a row. So there are cases where you might want to match the same team. I'm just asking Josh how the system deals with the issues I raise, if at all.
I searched for 2 hrs looking for a game this morning in H3 throwback and only was able to find 1 game...1 GAME!! You guys killed my all time fav playlist in WZA already and are doing it again with my new fav playlist in H3 throwback. I gave up hope searching for games in WZA and dont even bother wasting my time anymore but the same thing is happening again with H3 throwback. I searched from 830pm - 1130pm PST last night and couldnt find 1 freakin game not one!!!
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